Swiftech, universality and you

[AngryAlpaca]

Universal can be defined as "Adapted or adjustable to many sizes or mechanical uses."

In reality, true universality is nearly impossible for anything regarding motherboards, due to the wide variety of motherboards made, for a variety of different reasons. However, it is widely expected that "universal" items will fit the majority of a certain style of motherboards, barring a few completely abnormal models eg. that a "universal" waterblock that allegedly fits ("universally") all socket A motherboards WILL fit on one's particular socket A motherboard. Unless, though, I have that completely abnormal model. It would then be assumed that that model was obscure enough to not be considered in the decision to call it "universal". The Abit NF7-S motherboard was one of the most popular motherboards in the Socket A era, if I recall correctly, as it allowed the highest CPU clock speeds, as per Cathar's testing. Therefore, I would assume that a "universal" waterblock that states specifically that it fits Socket A would fit the NF7-S and the DFI Infinity LANboy [the other popular one, for its high FSB's] above all else.

On November 26th or so, I ordered several items from Voyeurmods, including a Swiftech Apogee "universal" waterblock. It took nearly two months to ship, but that's not the point. I received this waterblock today, and due to all the commotion, checked it for shavings. None! Yay! Then, I cleaned the bottom, and applied Arctic Silver Ceramique, as per the instructions, and place it over the CPU. Er, not quite over the CPU. About 1cm to the right of the CPU because of a small design aspect the creators of the "universal" Apogee waterblock may have missed: A HUGE BANK OF CAPACITORS! Not little capacitors, either. These are a central point of focus when looking at an NF7-S.

Alas...

I honestly expected better from Swiftech. Much, much better. This seems like an error that an amateur would make, or a company that didn't happen to list Socket 478 on their website as something that it fits, without making a note that it doesn't fit one of the most popular motherboards of that type.

That is all.

[BillA]

call Gabe

[Budwise]

file a complaint with the BBB against Voyeurmods, i did. More people need to speak out against their fraudulent practices...

[Etacovda]

"DFI Infinity LANboy" Its a DFI Lanparty B, OR a DFI infinity, i believe

The Capacitor bank is a common issue with the NF7, if you want a quick fix, by some aluminium tubing or similar, and cut some equal length spacers. I dont know how the spring tension works on the apogee, but assuming its a 'number of turns' rather than a 'do it down tight' thing, the turns will be the same.

Realistically, its the motherboard manufacturers fault, rather than swiftechs - they did not adhere to the 'keep out' area. Other manufacturers do the same (DFI and the capacitor height on one of their 939 boards springs to mind) - its not uncommon.

Id suggest doing the spacers trick - suggest it to swiftech, perhaps?

At any rate, the apogee isnt the best choice for socket A, is it?
2 months for shipping? jesus, thats awful.

[Long Haired Git]

Universal probably applies to the Socket A spec, in which case not Swiftech fault.

[Etacovda]

"I honestly expected better from Swiftech. Much, much better. This seems like an error that an amateur would make, or a company that didn't happen to list Socket 478 on their website as something that it fits, without making a note that it doesn't fit one of the most popular motherboards of that type."

Socket A is 462, btw - 478 is p4.

[AngryAlpaca]

What are you saying to do with the spacers?

I could fix the problem, with a hacksaw, but then the block would hardly be universal.

I chose the Apogee strictly because it was universal [and the Storm was slightly out of my budget] so I could throw it onto an A64 later. The other thing I ordered from Voyeurmods in the same order shipped the monday after I ordered [on a saturday]. If Swiftech had stated that it was not compatible with the NF7-S, we wouldn't be having this issue, and I'd be thinking about what an idiot I was, rather than complaining on a forum.

And yeah, I'll call Gabe this afternoon.

[pHaestus]

I'll trade you an MCW6002 or a DTek WW or an AlphaCool NeXXXOs XP or any other good socket a waterblock and can sweeten the deal with a few other wcing parts for the Apogee (radiators/pump/name your needs and I'm sure I have it).

I need one to test out Assuming you have all the universal bits still of course

[stev]

WOW and OWWW! Those are some tall caps! Even with this cooling setup, those caps are a snug fit to the cooling solution.

[AngryAlpaca]

Okay, I've make a [rather crude, steel] Socket A top for the block that fits, and am now leak testing.

pHaestus, I appreciate the offer, but the reason I didn't get a 6002 in the first place was that when I choose to upgrade to a A64, I didn't want to have to buy a new waterblock.

BTW, I'm not mad at Swiftech for making a waterblock that doesn't fit, just for misleading with phrases such as "universal" and "Socket 462", with no "except for the following models of motherboards..." as Thermalright, for example, has.

[Etacovda]

"pHaestus, I appreciate the offer, but the reason I didn't get a 6002 in the first place was that when I choose to upgrade to a A64, I didn't want to have to buy a new waterblock."

you dont have to, you could just track down a 939 mounting kit for it.

heres a quick render of what i meant... spacers around 1/2" to clear the capacitor banks.

[BillA]

very clever

[ThyKingdomCome]

Etacovda.. where did you get a cad of that block? Thats very well done, and if it was built just for this example, I am very impressed. Good solution..

[BillA]

The Man does GOOD work, seen it
(wonder if Swiftech will . . . . )

[Etacovda]

built specifically for this example ThyKindomCome, was bored + havent used CAD for a while, getting rusty

Thanks for the vote of confidence, bill

[AngryAlpaca]

Oh, that was a good idea, and a good render, Etacovada. Gabe wasn't all that helpful, suggesting either to cut off the part that was touching the capacitors, or return it. I got it all working now - it was overheating with the stock hardware, so I had to add washers to make the mounting force good. I hope this crap doesn't happen for anyone else, it's no fun.

Bill Adams repeatedly has stated that the stepped 600X was no good for IHS CPU's 'cause the bottom didn't cover the whole IHS, which is why I wasn't considering it.

[Etacovda]

thanks

I have used a stepped block on a 754 cpu, saw good cooling performance with no issues; the step only 'misses' about 2mm of the IHS, nothing to be overly concerned about.

Incidentially, i just did a quick once over on the installation guidelines - appears they use acorn nuts to prevent overtightening, so anyone else considering my spacers solution would have to buy new bolts/screws at a longer length (say, 15mm longer) and make sure their spacers are 15mm long, to take up the size difference and retain the correct mounting pressure.

[bigben2k]

I went over Swiftech's website, because I could swear that I saw a notice somewhere about the compatibility not being guaranteed, because "it isn't practical to test each motherboard". I couldn't find that reference today, but I did find an expression that states "...is meant to be essentially universal..".

I can't verify wether the NF7-S or the Lanboy board do or don't respect the keep out areas, but it is a common specification, and is readily available to anyone from both Intel and AMD.

[stev]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

"pHaestus, I appreciate the offer, but the reason I didn't get a 6002 in the first place was that when I choose to upgrade to a A64, I didn't want to have to buy a new waterblock."

you dont have to, you could just track down a 939 mounting kit for it.

heres a quick render of what i meant... spacers around 1/2" to clear the capacitor banks.

It looks like those parts can be ordered at McMaster-Carr or the local hardware store or maybe Radio-Shack too. Some basic standoffs should work. All Alumium or Stainless should work far better than plastic due to the force needed to mount.

Stev

[Etacovda]

Originally Posted by stev

It looks like those parts can be ordered at McMaster-Carr or the local hardware store or maybe Radio-Shack too. Some basic standoffs should work. All Alumium or Stainless should work far better than plastic due to the force needed to mount.

Stev

indeed
the simple solution is generally the best one - and cant imagine any more simple solution for this problem

[AngryAlpaca]

Those parts can certainly be acquired at the Home Despot.

Anywho, how much of the northbridge gives off heat? I've noticed that stock northbridge heatsinks only contact the middle of the NB. Is that the only place where there's heat?

[HammerSandwich]

Come to think of it, I had to grind a GC68 (aka Spire Whisper Rock but only $3 from SVC circa 3 years ago) before it would clear those caps on an NF-7. Probably more annoying to encounter with a $40 WB.

[rpalamara]

You cant really blame Swiftech for not buying every single motherboard manufactured to test a waterblock on. It is the same situation as when longer graphics cards started to be released. On some motherboards the capacitors got in the way. Its really the motherboard manufacturer's fault, especially when the are specifications on the clearance around the CPU socket.