Swiftech MCW462 or Danger den maze2.1

Lord Smack · 05-04-2001, 02:46 AM

has anyone done a compairson of there water blocks? I have a MCW462 and am very happy with it. I wanted to see some benchmarks that would show me if the upgrade would be worth it. I emailed Swiftech and asked compairson /pros and cons of the two water blocks ,with in a day they informed me they hadn't done any testing of the maze 2.1. Danger Den on the other hand has ignored all 3 of my emails asknig for the same info. so has anyone put these two head to head?

Erik Johansson · 10-22-2001, 11:07 AM

I´m very convinced that the Swiftech is a better performer than the Maze BUT you have to replace those horrible fittings on the Swiftech to take advantage of the great flow rates this block offers. Just use straigt 1/2" fittings with regular 1/4" pipe tap and you´ll see a big performance increase. Also people have reported up to 7C lower temps after replacing the gasket between the copper base and the aluminum body with Arctic Silver Epoxy (lean mixture so you can remove it).

/Erik

Kevin · 10-22-2001, 12:40 PM

Yeah as they are sold, the dangerden I believe will perform much better, because you can get 1/2" ID fittings on it. The swiftech comes w/ 1/4". That is twice the inner diameter. However, I do like the swiftech design, and I feel that if they were to use 1/2" ID tubing, they could compete with the dangerden block, maybe win.
-Kev

Erik Johansson · 10-23-2001, 11:05 AM

The surface area on the Swiftech is VERY large and with their design the flow rates are very good after changing fittings.

As most people know, surface area and flow rate is the two most important things for how good a waterblock performs. The Maze2 design has a very low flowrates compared to the Swiftech.

/Erik

Kevin · 10-23-2001, 03:37 PM

Actually I'm starting to question the importance of flow rate... I had a 158 gph pump system a while back that performed great. Sticking an Eheim in there didn't really help much.
-Kev

10-25-2001, 07:07 AM

I think flow rate is important but not as much as many believe. Thermal transfer works better with a large difference... IE heat will transfer from a hot plate to an ice cube more quickly than an ice cube to a table top. So you want the water in the cooler to have a larger temperature difference compared to the waterblock. If the flow rate is too low then as the water passes through the cooler it will heat up and .5-.75 of the way through it will have almost matched the waterblock temp, thus no more heat is being transferred. As long as there is enough flow that it keeps a good differential all the way through, it will be fine. More flow will help in that the differential will be higher for more of the trip thru the block. This holds true for the radiator too-- if the water has cooled down to the rad temp halfway through, that extra distance is not being utilized. This is why good flow helps.

However this curves off... the gain from 100gph to 250gph will be more than the gain from 250 to 500. As long as a good differential is being maintained all the way through, more flow will only help marginally (will only increase the temp difference a little bit). This is not to say more flow doesnt help... it does. Just not as much.

Also anyone who tells you too much flow is bad for heat transfer is probably wrong. The only way too much flow would be bad is if you blow a gasket from too much pressure. The argument 'it doesnt stay in the radiator long enough' is bullshit. Dont forget that higher flow means it stays in the water block for less time too, so its cooler as it comes out. It being cooler in the radiator means the same differential effect applies. But what you lost with a lower radiator differential you gain in a higher water block differential. So more heat is being sucked off the core and thus it works marginally better.

Bottom line...
Dont waste your money on a 1000gph pump if all you got is one CPUblock and one radiator, you're wasting your money and raising the pressure (more chance of leaky fittings). Go for a 250 or at most a 500. If you have several blocks, IE CPU, graphics, HDD, etc. that same 250-500 will probably do just fine, if you feel adventurous get a 650. My suggestion-- hook the blocks in parallel. IE get a Y adapter that splits the pump output to go to both CPU and everything else. IE if you have graphics and hard drive, split the 'everything else' one again. Then recombine them before the radiator. Two radiators in parallel and large diameter tubing between the pump and first Y will give you a huge flow boost.

Am I rambling? I think I am. I wonder where the word rambling came from? Now lets see...

thekingofpain · 01-25-2002, 10:01 PM

Swiftech...

Brad · 01-27-2002, 05:25 AM

in stock form I agree, the maze would be better due to the larger barbs, more worthwhile surface area etc, but when the swiftech has been modifed a bit it will probably work damned near as good as the maze if not better. But you already have a swiftech, so I wouldn't bother spending that money, you could spend your $50 or so on things that are going to give you better performance, like rad, pump, or maybe more ram, whatever.

Pyrotechnic · 01-29-2002, 07:43 PM

i saw a swiftech MCW462 taken apart and it was just a flat copper base with an alluminum cap.

05-04-2001, 02:46 AM	#1
Lord Smack Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 33	Swiftech MCW462 or Danger den maze2.1 has anyone done a compairson of there water blocks? I have a MCW462 and am very happy with it. I wanted to see some benchmarks that would show me if the upgrade would be worth it. I emailed Swiftech and asked compairson /pros and cons of the two water blocks ,with in a day they informed me they hadn't done any testing of the maze 2.1. Danger Den on the other hand has ignored all 3 of my emails asknig for the same info. so has anyone put these two head to head?

10-22-2001, 12:40 PM	#3
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Yeah as they are sold, the dangerden I believe will perform much better, because you can get 1/2" ID fittings on it. The swiftech comes w/ 1/4". That is twice the inner diameter. However, I do like the swiftech design, and I feel that if they were to use 1/2" ID tubing, they could compete with the dangerden block, maybe win. -Kev __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

10-23-2001, 03:37 PM	#5
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Actually I'm starting to question the importance of flow rate... I had a 158 gph pump system a while back that performed great. Sticking an Eheim in there didn't really help much. -Kev __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

01-27-2002, 05:25 AM	#8
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	in stock form I agree, the maze would be better due to the larger barbs, more worthwhile surface area etc, but when the swiftech has been modifed a bit it will probably work damned near as good as the maze if not better. But you already have a swiftech, so I wouldn't bother spending that money, you could spend your $50 or so on things that are going to give you better performance, like rad, pump, or maybe more ram, whatever. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

10-22-2001, 11:07 AM	#2
Erik Johansson Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 7	I´m very convinced that the Swiftech is a better performer than the Maze BUT you have to replace those horrible fittings on the Swiftech to take advantage of the great flow rates this block offers. Just use straigt 1/2" fittings with regular 1/4" pipe tap and you´ll see a big performance increase. Also people have reported up to 7C lower temps after replacing the gasket between the copper base and the aluminum body with Arctic Silver Epoxy (lean mixture so you can remove it). /Erik

10-23-2001, 11:05 AM	#4
Erik Johansson Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 7	The surface area on the Swiftech is VERY large and with their design the flow rates are very good after changing fittings. As most people know, surface area and flow rate is the two most important things for how good a waterblock performs. The Maze2 design has a very low flowrates compared to the Swiftech. /Erik

10-25-2001, 07:07 AM	#6
IronHelix Guest Posts: n/a	I think flow rate is important but not as much as many believe. Thermal transfer works better with a large difference... IE heat will transfer from a hot plate to an ice cube more quickly than an ice cube to a table top. So you want the water in the cooler to have a larger temperature difference compared to the waterblock. If the flow rate is too low then as the water passes through the cooler it will heat up and .5-.75 of the way through it will have almost matched the waterblock temp, thus no more heat is being transferred. As long as there is enough flow that it keeps a good differential all the way through, it will be fine. More flow will help in that the differential will be higher for more of the trip thru the block. This holds true for the radiator too-- if the water has cooled down to the rad temp halfway through, that extra distance is not being utilized. This is why good flow helps. However this curves off... the gain from 100gph to 250gph will be more than the gain from 250 to 500. As long as a good differential is being maintained all the way through, more flow will only help marginally (will only increase the temp difference a little bit). This is not to say more flow doesnt help... it does. Just not as much. Also anyone who tells you too much flow is bad for heat transfer is probably wrong. The only way too much flow would be bad is if you blow a gasket from too much pressure. The argument 'it doesnt stay in the radiator long enough' is bullshit. Dont forget that higher flow means it stays in the water block for less time too, so its cooler as it comes out. It being cooler in the radiator means the same differential effect applies. But what you lost with a lower radiator differential you gain in a higher water block differential. So more heat is being sucked off the core and thus it works marginally better. Bottom line... Dont waste your money on a 1000gph pump if all you got is one CPUblock and one radiator, you're wasting your money and raising the pressure (more chance of leaky fittings). Go for a 250 or at most a 500. If you have several blocks, IE CPU, graphics, HDD, etc. that same 250-500 will probably do just fine, if you feel adventurous get a 650. My suggestion-- hook the blocks in parallel. IE get a Y adapter that splits the pump output to go to both CPU and everything else. IE if you have graphics and hard drive, split the 'everything else' one again. Then recombine them before the radiator. Two radiators in parallel and large diameter tubing between the pump and first Y will give you a huge flow boost. Am I rambling? I think I am. I wonder where the word rambling came from? Now lets see...

01-25-2002, 10:01 PM	#7
thekingofpain Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4	Swiftech...

01-29-2002, 07:43 PM	#9
Pyrotechnic Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 240	i saw a swiftech MCW462 taken apart and it was just a flat copper base with an alluminum cap.

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