Bye Bye Amd Mounting Holes

DodgeViper · 03-18-2002, 09:34 PM

AMD has discontinued the four mounting hole surrounding the socket.

CLICK

#Rotor · 03-18-2002, 10:07 PM

"the first mobo's only show up now"..... then why is there no damn holes in my Tiger....

this sux. For as much as I support AMD.... They are starting to do things that makes me wonder why I'm not with Sirex or TransMeta....

DodgeViper · 03-18-2002, 10:15 PM

Flood their site with emails something on this line,

With the recent news that AMD is removing the four holes around the socket has made my next purchase of processor/motherboard and Intel design. Thanks for making my next purchase a cut and dry purchase.

AMD supporter over 5 years.
Soon to be an Intel supporter!!!

AMD HARDWARE SUPPORT

jaydee · 03-18-2002, 10:56 PM

Well blame the freeking MOBO MAKERS to not just AMD. If the mobo makers can have the holes they should even if they are not required so they can conform to all HS designs. I see a few boards hitting the market that do not have the holes like the NForce bases MSI boards and the Tyan duel board. Kinds sucks but I bet Intel will follow suit sooner or later.

Of course water cooling is not on their mind so it really isn't a illogical move. They don't make their specs for us water coolers. This just means we will have to be more creative in our future hold down devices. This will limit, even more, the size of the water block though. Now you will not be able to go much past the socket clips.

redleader · 03-18-2002, 11:06 PM

Meh my next board has the holes and it will hold me over until Hammer. By them AMD will probably have adopted Intel's sinks along with their heatspreader.

Joe · 03-18-2002, 11:09 PM

Hey guys, push AMD to support the ATX standard holes that the P4's use!!! One single set of holes for AMD and Intel.. Ohh my god would that be out there...

DodgeViper · 03-18-2002, 11:14 PM

Write to the manufactors as well.

market@abit.com.tw

tsd@asus.com

english@gigabyte.com.tw

marketing@msicomputer.com

sales@msicomputer.com

service@shuttlela.com

supervisor@shuttleonline.com

sandy@tyan.com.tw

contact@tyan.de

sales@iwillusa.com

sales@ecsusa.com

Sales@biostar-usa.com

Cyco-Dude · 03-18-2002, 11:40 PM

o god, you make it sound like its the end of the world...

Joe · 03-18-2002, 11:43 PM

not the end of the world, just the begining of many broken sockets.

Brad · 03-19-2002, 12:23 AM

I like Joe's idea, maybe they will change to the same size holes as intel that way, it will be a much better approach than what they are doing now.

and I think abit, and all other good board makers will continue with the holes regardless

Marco · 03-19-2002, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe
not the end of the world, just the begining of many broken sockets.

I'll second that. I'm already pissed enough that the 8500 does not come with mounting holes. This is definitely a step back by AMD.

jaydee · 03-19-2002, 08:24 AM

Once again I will say they DO NOT make their specs for waterblocks, they never have and they never will unless water cooling will become standard which will never happen. The Water Cooling and aftermarket cooling community is way to small for them to be revising their products for.

With that said I like the Intel hole idea and at least 2 holes in all vid cards and at least 2 holes for the North Bridge (although it really dosn't need extra cooling). Would be nice.

Cyco-Dude · 03-19-2002, 09:40 AM

as far as the Radeon cards are concerned, some thermal adhesive will do the trick (ive also noticed on some 3rd-party cards that they use mounting holes).

now, i can see why some ppl would be upset - the mounting holes are certainly a convenient and secure method of mounting huge HSFs and waterblocks. but there are plenty of clever ppl, some of which post here :P ,that will design new blocks and mounting methods should MoBos start showing up with no holes. you want pelts? well what about the Maze1C. sure its not the best block in the world, but it shows that it can be done. broken sockets? not if you use a good clip. what about the many huge (and heavy) copper HSFs out now? a properly designed clip that uses all 6 cleats will surely be adaquate for mounting a WB onto the socket. you might say that you wont be able to use huge WBs, but do you really need them huge? some examples of small, yet well-performing blocks would be the ones from Innovatek and Gemini (although i'll wait and see what ProCooling says about them befor i make my mind up). again, innovative and clever WB designers will overcome this obstacle. and like someone already said, if enough ppl want their holes, im sure the top-teir MoBo manufacturers will be more than happy to give them to you; more business for them.

just my 24 3/4 cents...

pHaestus · 03-19-2002, 11:34 AM

Quote:

broken sockets? not if you use a good clip. what about the many huge (and heavy) copper HSFs out now?

There is more to consider than just the weight of the blocks. I am more concerned with the torque that moving tubing around and into place can cause on the socket and chip than I am about the weight. You don't have to deal with that when using a heatsink.

Cyco-Dude · 03-19-2002, 11:40 AM

well, you could secure the tubing to the chassis to prevent that. or use a shim (or both). thats something ppl will have to look into; i dont think it would be a big problem...after all, the tubing wont move if the case is still. when you want to transport it, you'ld just have to be careful (or just remove the WB temporarily).

Brad · 03-19-2002, 04:04 PM

you can use a maze1c holddown with just about any block that is a comparable height, and is less than 60mm wide.

I think the major issue here is noise. intel thought ahead and said if we standardise a setup with 70mm or 80mm fans we can get less noise and still cool our cpu's well.

amd didn't have that foresight, their specs are only for 60mm wide heatsinks, even if they are 80mm long. Sure you can get a 60mm heatsink to adequately cool any athlon, but it might need a 38cfm delta. While with a pal8045 or similar, you can use a much quieter 80mm fan that will still cool adequately.

at work we use volcano 7+'s, pal8045's, and similar with quiet fans, just to keep the regular people happy, and the cpu's happy.

sunblade · 03-19-2002, 06:44 PM

When I first heard of the news, I was shocked and started panicing because I have my new maze2 and am getting close to putting everything together. But, after I calmed down, I began looking at it from a different perspective.

Companies like Abit, Asus, and Epox obviously want the business of the "enthusiast" market, otherwise they would have no reasons for luxuries like soft bioses because normal people don't need CAS2 1T Turbo mumbo-jumbo. I believe that the mounting holes will be left out depending on the target market. A mATX mobo with no overclocking options wouldn't have a great need for mounting holes, but I expect hardcore motherboards to still include them. The mounting holes will probably be like the lack of a CNR slot or even better, an AGP slot. Cheap, tiny, OEM motherboards tend to lack an AGP slot for built-in video, yet we don't complain that all motherboards must have an AGP slot or something bad will happen

So, I don't think there is a need to worry. If it becomes impossible to find a motherboard with mounting holes, then maybe it's time to look at other platforms.

Brad · 03-19-2002, 07:26 PM

sunblade, I think in the next couple of months most new boards released will have the holes anyway, they've already been designed. but for the next gen of boards that are just being started on now, I think we will see quite a few without the boards, while I think the true enthusiast board makers will continue with the holes

#Rotor · 03-19-2002, 07:53 PM

well most of us will have to devolve a bit, back to just before the Socket-A came out..... I still have that design here somewhere

I hope..... When I got my Tyan, I was utterly disgusted by the fact that there was not a hole in site.... fortunatily I had a couple of older revisions in a box.....

sunblade · 03-19-2002, 08:57 PM

I would hesitate about using the Maze1C's mounting mech on the Maze2 only because from the pictures, it appears to only use 2 socket lugs. Maybe this will spur DangerDen to make a clip that uses all 6 lugs like the Thermalright AX-7's clip.

EMC2 · 03-19-2002, 09:49 PM

They did that a while back... Remember this?

It would suck if the good OC'ing m/b manufacturers quit putting them in boards, but there will always be a way for positive attachment of blocks.

Cyco-Dude · 03-19-2002, 09:50 PM

notice you can choose 'middle socket tab' or '3 socket tab'.

sunblade · 03-19-2002, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
notice you can choose 'middle socket tab' or '3 socket tab'.

God, I'm dumb.

Brad · 03-20-2002, 12:43 AM

its been like that since the maze1c was released

g.l.amour · 03-20-2002, 03:19 AM

i already devoured everything on the site, so i thought to do the forum now... i already mailed amd to find out if they were going to discontinue the mounting holes, a reply came with some sort of customer satisfaction form i had to fill in, basically no answer.

now i read the answer here yesterday. so i immediately mailed back to amd to give stature to my discontent (heh). this came back today, i sorta can't blame 'em.

"Hello,

Thank you for contacting AMD.

We do appreciate your comments, however, AMD does not design or manufacture motherboards.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Best regards,
Richard
AMD Technical Service Center"

03-18-2002, 09:34 PM	#1
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	Bye Bye Amd Mounting Holes AMD has discontinued the four mounting hole surrounding the socket. CLICK

03-18-2002, 10:15 PM	#3
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	Flood their site with emails something on this line, With the recent news that AMD is removing the four holes around the socket has made my next purchase of processor/motherboard and Intel design. Thanks for making my next purchase a cut and dry purchase. AMD supporter over 5 years. Soon to be an Intel supporter!!! AMD HARDWARE SUPPORT Last edited by DodgeViper; 03-18-2002 at 10:24 PM.

03-18-2002, 11:09 PM	#6
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	Hey guys, push AMD to support the ATX standard holes that the P4's use!!! One single set of holes for AMD and Intel.. Ohh my god would that be out there... __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

03-18-2002, 11:43 PM	#9
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	not the end of the world, just the begining of many broken sockets. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

03-19-2002, 12:23 AM	#10
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I like Joe's idea, maybe they will change to the same size holes as intel that way, it will be a much better approach than what they are doing now. and I think abit, and all other good board makers will continue with the holes regardless __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-18-2002, 10:07 PM	#2
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	"the first mobo's only show up now"..... then why is there no damn holes in my Tiger.... this sux. For as much as I support AMD.... They are starting to do things that makes me wonder why I'm not with Sirex or TransMeta....

03-18-2002, 10:56 PM	#4
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Well blame the freeking MOBO MAKERS to not just AMD. If the mobo makers can have the holes they should even if they are not required so they can conform to all HS designs. I see a few boards hitting the market that do not have the holes like the NForce bases MSI boards and the Tyan duel board. Kinds sucks but I bet Intel will follow suit sooner or later. Of course water cooling is not on their mind so it really isn't a illogical move. They don't make their specs for us water coolers. This just means we will have to be more creative in our future hold down devices. This will limit, even more, the size of the water block though. Now you will not be able to go much past the socket clips.

03-18-2002, 11:06 PM	#5
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Meh my next board has the holes and it will hold me over until Hammer. By them AMD will probably have adopted Intel's sinks along with their heatspreader.

03-18-2002, 11:14 PM	#7
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	Write to the manufactors as well. market@abit.com.tw tsd@asus.com english@gigabyte.com.tw marketing@msicomputer.com sales@msicomputer.com service@shuttlela.com supervisor@shuttleonline.com sandy@tyan.com.tw contact@tyan.de sales@iwillusa.com sales@ecsusa.com Sales@biostar-usa.com

03-18-2002, 11:40 PM	#8
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	o god, you make it sound like its the end of the world...

03-19-2002, 08:24 AM	#12
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Once again I will say they DO NOT make their specs for waterblocks, they never have and they never will unless water cooling will become standard which will never happen. The Water Cooling and aftermarket cooling community is way to small for them to be revising their products for. With that said I like the Intel hole idea and at least 2 holes in all vid cards and at least 2 holes for the North Bridge (although it really dosn't need extra cooling). Would be nice.

03-19-2002, 09:40 AM	#13
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	as far as the Radeon cards are concerned, some thermal adhesive will do the trick (ive also noticed on some 3rd-party cards that they use mounting holes). now, i can see why some ppl would be upset - the mounting holes are certainly a convenient and secure method of mounting huge HSFs and waterblocks. but there are plenty of clever ppl, some of which post here :P ,that will design new blocks and mounting methods should MoBos start showing up with no holes. you want pelts? well what about the Maze1C. sure its not the best block in the world, but it shows that it can be done. broken sockets? not if you use a good clip. what about the many huge (and heavy) copper HSFs out now? a properly designed clip that uses all 6 cleats will surely be adaquate for mounting a WB onto the socket. you might say that you wont be able to use huge WBs, but do you really need them huge? some examples of small, yet well-performing blocks would be the ones from Innovatek and Gemini (although i'll wait and see what ProCooling says about them befor i make my mind up). again, innovative and clever WB designers will overcome this obstacle. and like someone already said, if enough ppl want their holes, im sure the top-teir MoBo manufacturers will be more than happy to give them to you; more business for them. just my 24 3/4 cents...

03-19-2002, 11:40 AM	#15
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	well, you could secure the tubing to the chassis to prevent that. or use a shim (or both). thats something ppl will have to look into; i dont think it would be a big problem...after all, the tubing wont move if the case is still. when you want to transport it, you'ld just have to be careful (or just remove the WB temporarily).

03-19-2002, 04:04 PM	#16
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	you can use a maze1c holddown with just about any block that is a comparable height, and is less than 60mm wide. I think the major issue here is noise. intel thought ahead and said if we standardise a setup with 70mm or 80mm fans we can get less noise and still cool our cpu's well. amd didn't have that foresight, their specs are only for 60mm wide heatsinks, even if they are 80mm long. Sure you can get a 60mm heatsink to adequately cool any athlon, but it might need a 38cfm delta. While with a pal8045 or similar, you can use a much quieter 80mm fan that will still cool adequately. at work we use volcano 7+'s, pal8045's, and similar with quiet fans, just to keep the regular people happy, and the cpu's happy. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-19-2002, 06:44 PM	#17
sunblade Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 156	When I first heard of the news, I was shocked and started panicing because I have my new maze2 and am getting close to putting everything together. But, after I calmed down, I began looking at it from a different perspective. Companies like Abit, Asus, and Epox obviously want the business of the "enthusiast" market, otherwise they would have no reasons for luxuries like soft bioses because normal people don't need CAS2 1T Turbo mumbo-jumbo. I believe that the mounting holes will be left out depending on the target market. A mATX mobo with no overclocking options wouldn't have a great need for mounting holes, but I expect hardcore motherboards to still include them. The mounting holes will probably be like the lack of a CNR slot or even better, an AGP slot. Cheap, tiny, OEM motherboards tend to lack an AGP slot for built-in video, yet we don't complain that all motherboards must have an AGP slot or something bad will happen So, I don't think there is a need to worry. If it becomes impossible to find a motherboard with mounting holes, then maybe it's time to look at other platforms.

03-19-2002, 07:26 PM	#18
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	sunblade, I think in the next couple of months most new boards released will have the holes anyway, they've already been designed. but for the next gen of boards that are just being started on now, I think we will see quite a few without the boards, while I think the true enthusiast board makers will continue with the holes __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-19-2002, 07:53 PM	#19
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	well most of us will have to devolve a bit, back to just before the Socket-A came out..... I still have that design here somewhere I hope..... When I got my Tyan, I was utterly disgusted by the fact that there was not a hole in site.... fortunatily I had a couple of older revisions in a box.....

03-19-2002, 08:57 PM	#20
sunblade Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 156	I would hesitate about using the Maze1C's mounting mech on the Maze2 only because from the pictures, it appears to only use 2 socket lugs. Maybe this will spur DangerDen to make a clip that uses all 6 lugs like the Thermalright AX-7's clip.

03-19-2002, 09:49 PM	#21
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	They did that a while back... Remember this? It would suck if the good OC'ing m/b manufacturers quit putting them in boards, but there will always be a way for positive attachment of blocks.

03-19-2002, 09:50 PM	#22
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	notice you can choose 'middle socket tab' or '3 socket tab'.

03-20-2002, 12:43 AM	#24
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	its been like that since the maze1c was released __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-20-2002, 03:19 AM	#25
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	a big hello to everybody i already devoured everything on the site, so i thought to do the forum now... i already mailed amd to find out if they were going to discontinue the mounting holes, a reply came with some sort of customer satisfaction form i had to fill in, basically no answer. now i read the answer here yesterday. so i immediately mailed back to amd to give stature to my discontent (heh). this came back today, i sorta can't blame 'em. "Hello, Thank you for contacting AMD. We do appreciate your comments, however, AMD does not design or manufacture motherboards. Please let us know if you have any further questions. Best regards, Richard AMD Technical Service Center"

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