Want to change coolant! I Need advice

[icel0rd]

Ok, I'm working on the cosmetic phase of my water cooling rig now, but I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried adding dyelite to an antifreeze/distilled water mixture. I want to replace my coolant with something that gives off a nice appearance. I am a blue fan, personally.

I like the benefits of antifreeze keeping the water from becoming murky and algae infested, and watter wetter is supposed to be an issue with the pump you guys told me not to get

I just wanted to produce a nifty glow with a cold cathode UV light now, or find something I can add to my greenish coolant to make it bright blue/blue-ish or just go with something else. I'd love to NOT use the antifreeze since its green anyway and I want the coolant to be blue. I just don't know what other safe additives I can put in without screwing up my pump and producing buildup in the circuit.

I have a cold cathode blue coming in tomorrow and want my coolant to be a more intense blue. What I really need to know is what water additives work for preservation + blue color (without using water wetter).

Will Distilled water + alcohol + dyelite work maybe ?
What about Distilled water + anitfreeze + dyelite? (might not work, but I don't know)

I just dont want to end of having to change the water frequently because of algae buildup or anything else growing/developing in the water. I was initially thinking that I should ditch the antifreeze and go with distilled + alcohol, which might do the trick, but I'm not sure how dyelite would react with it. Maybe I will order some dyelite and put it a water + alcohol mix and see what happens.

I'm open to suggestions....


-Ice-

[Brians256]

If you don't use antifreeze, try using some water wetter or other anti-corrosion additive. Joe's DH3 writeup has a good recipe for using just Water Wetter (although he actually shows and uses a different generic brand). If you don't, be prepared for metal corrosion.

Also, if you use alcohol (not a bad idea), buy some methanol, not the isopropanol (I think that's spelled incorrectly). Methanol has the best thermal transfer characteristics of the alcohols, and you should be able to get it at a home improvement store in the paint stripping and solvent section.

[icel0rd]

Thanks for the reply. Basically, what you are saying is that it's either antifreeze or water wetter or a corroded metal mess later on?

I was told that water wetter will kill this pump because of buildup/deposits.

Well, a couple of questions come to mind then..

I guess that leaves me stuck with antifreeze then since it does protect metal from corrosion. This makes me wonder though.... Does antifreeze work the same was as the watter wetter by leaving some sort of protective film on the metal?

The other question is, does adding alcohol to the water make the water anti corrosive? If so, that would be great because all I would need to do is drop my color in it and live happily ever after.

Last question is, does mixing dyelite with an antifreeze-water mixture present any issues? If not, then I'll go that route if alcohol-water doesn't help with corrosion.


Thanks again

-Ice-

[Bignuts]

I am currently experimenting with antifreeze/wetter/dyelight, and thought you might like to hear what I have found. Both me and DigitalChaos, have been using systems with just distilled and wetter in them, and while we have not experienced corrosion, we both have got something that appears to be organic in nature living in our rigs.
Now neither one of us have tested the stuff (because we dont know how), but DC has added H2O2 to his "stuff", and it bubbled away. his used 4 oz. of wetter per gallon, and I used 2 oz..
I do not know of the metal composition of his rig, but mine ony has brass and copper exposed to the coolant in the system, and no aparent corrosion on the metals in either.
I have recently added 2 oz. of Prestone antifreeze (not the extended life variety) to the mix, and I am watching it closely.

I also have dyelite in my system I started with the blue that caseetc. uses (may not be actual dyelight brand) and found its UV presence to be lacking, so I have added green to the mix. Much better!I now have a whitish green that is serving me well.

[icel0rd]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I read a lot about UV dyes and it appears that dye-lite was designed to work in ac systems, and systems using engine coolant with antifreeze, so I'm sure there shouldn't be any issue with it.

The only thing left to be concerned with is the color of the coolant. I think I may have to go with antifreeze, since it prevents corrosion and doesnt appear to have a buildup issue.

Before I do that though, I'm thinking of trying a heavy acohol +distilled water mix first. Too bad I suck at chemistry, or I might know what the outcome of trying something like that would be.


-Ice-

[Brians256]

OK, I'm going to repeat what I've heard from the guys who actually know something (like pHaestus, who is months away from his doctorate in biochem).

Water wetter will not prevent you from getting bio growth in your system, since it doesn't kill anything. It is essentially a surfactant (soap) with a pH changing substance to make it more basic and not acidic. The change to a base pH helps prevent corrosion, and the surfactant helps reduce the thickness of the stagnant layer of water next to the metal surface inside your radiator and waterblock. Use it to increase performance and reduce corrosion. It is not as good as antifreeze at reducing corrosion but it is better at helping heat transfer.

Antifreeze is a poor heat transfer agent, but it helps reduce corrosion by locking up metal ions that get absorbed. This way, the metal might get absorbed, but it doesn't get redeposited somewhere else, so the electrical circuit is not completed (the circuit is part of the battery effect that helps corrode dissimilar metals). It might help reduce biological growths, but I don't remember. However, it is much better at reducing corrosion.

Methanol is OK at killing biological growths, but not perfect. It is far better than antifreeze at transferring heat, but it does not do anything to prevent corrosion. It helps in a different way than water wetter. For pure heat transfer, I believe that water wetter has it beat, but methanol is a good biocide. The biggest problem is corrosion. Oh, don't forget that the alcohols (methanol, isopropynol, and ethanol) are good at dissolving some types of gasket material. You might kill your pump or discover a leak somewhere else!

[icel0rd]

Ah, thanks a lot for the lesson! I feel empowered now

That makes the picture crystal clear to me now. I suppose I will continue to use antifreeze because of the benefits and I will add dye-lite to the mixture.

I appreciate the info. That saved me a lot of research time.



Thanks


-Ice-

[DeafinONEear]

Instead of using alchohol, I was wondering if anyone has ever used a dedicated algicide and just water, such as these here:
for tabs
and
for a liquid (or is it a powder?)
I would imagine this stuff wouldn't be as potentially destructive to the interconnects as meth would be, but would do the only job that it is designed to do (killing bio) well, without taking away from the performance of water.
anyone ever use the stuff?

[sunblade]

Does anybody think pharmacy grade peroxide would help kill organics? If I remember, peroxide in basic form is OH-? So that's a base, correct? I dunno if it'd fizz too much tho.

[MeltMan]

the peroxide would react with any sunlight and turn into normal water and oxygen... Thats why peroxide comes in dark bottles

I was always wondering about running a little listerine in there... kills 98% of germs on contact!

[sunblade]

Listerine might help, but I remember reading a page saying that mouth wash including listerine didn't inhibit germ growth much. I dunno how much would be required either. Hmmm, it's worth a try tho, and it has that cool blue/green color.

[ECUPirate]

How often should one change the coolant on their system? What happens if you don't?

[Cyco-Dude]

well, any corosion inhibitors would gradually become depleated, leaving your system vulnerable to coroding and depositing salts in the radiator (drastically reducing its cooling ability). any biocide would probably were off eventually as well (no biocide = strange groths in your system, which again degrade cooling performance and can clog the system up eventually).

im thinking every 6 or 12 months would be a good time to replace the coolant.
or, you could just add a little more biocide or anti-corrisive additives as needed...

ECU, nice av. but you might want to change it befor Jim smites thee LOL!

[DeafinONEear]

But if you had an all copper setup, wouldn't you not have to worry about galvanic corrosion? And if you used distilled water, wouldn't that take care of any need to worry about salt and mineral deposits (which I didn't think WW took care of in the first place)?
Sorry for the noobage, but I'm planning a system right now.

[ECUPirate]

Hey man, Brad suggested that someone use a tit for their av... heehe. Maybe I take things too literally... I dunno.. it seemed clear enough at the time..

[Brad]

you do, and ignore Jim, it's Joe you want to watch out for

[Avatar28]

Originally posted by DeafinONEear
But if you had an all copper setup, wouldn't you not have to worry about galvanic corrosion? And if you used distilled water, wouldn't that take care of any need to worry about salt and mineral deposits (which I didn't think WW took care of in the first place)?
Sorry for the noobage, but I'm planning a system right now.

I'm thinking the same thing myself. I'm going to only have copper and plastic. And possibly some brass fittings. Actually, I'm trying to find some deionized water (as opposed to distilled). Not having a lot of luck so far, though.

I do have a lead at least. I was at autozone, and the guy there said there's a trucking company near downtown that uses DI water to wash out the tanks of the tanker trucks. He said being that I only need a couple gallons, they would probably just give me some.

[Cyco-Dude]

Originally posted by Brad
you do, and ignore Jim, it's Joe you want to watch out for

lol, i was close enuff ;P

if its all copper, it shouldnt corrode....but you'ld still need to do something about biological 'things' growing in the system over time...

[DeafinONEear]

wow! I was over in the [H] for a second and found this.. don't know if y'all seen it, but it sure helps. (if so, sorry, I'm new to this forum).
differing liquids shootout
I think I might just go the Methynol route.
Thanks for the knowledge!

[Cyco-Dude]

please keep in mind my focus for this research was to find a coolant that would work at -30F...

just as long as you're super-cooling your coolant.......otherwise distilled water (and maybe some addatives to prevent corrosion / biological growth) would be better...

[DeafinONEear]

well, ok, then... right!
which brings me back to my original question of if those biocides that I linked would work/do any harm...
I really don't want to get toxic with this setup and would love to use nothing but water, so if no one has had any problems with those things, or could steer me towards a tried and approved dedicated biocide, that would be amazing.

[Cyco-Dude]

well, those will take care of any algea (those are algicides), but it probably wont kill bacteria. i dunno what effect it would have other than killing algea (this stuff is ment to go into a fishtank, so i would assume its safe to put into a watercooling system as well and not destroy fittings, tubings, etc).

[DeafinONEear]

I guess the only way to really know is to go to the fish store and ask what it kills.
Ya know, in doing all this reasearch, I've grown more and more fond of this-- it is a synthesis of plumbing, physics, aquatic construction and computers. My god, if that's not multimedia, I don't know what is!