WC or remote a power supply?

DeafinONEear · 04-29-2002, 10:30 PM

So I am absolutely happy with the wc setup I just pulled off; the res and rad/fan are in another room and things are really quiet...

*EXCEPT*

for that goddamn PSU fan.

so I have two ideas.
One is to watercool it. I have seen it done, but I am not fully convinced that it is the smartest thing to do, considering that 1) if you have just one small leak you're out to fry a whole lotta stuff and 2) you're not cooling all the components, all of which put off alot of heat and need to be cooled.
Two, and the one I am more partial to is to remote that PSU in the next room along with the res/rad. I haven't yet patched up the holes in the wall, so this won't be the most difficult thing. What I am worried about is being able to carry a load for 15 feet with such a low impedance and also the amount of RF interference and other noise that a line like that would produce for other electronic devices (I am running alot of audio devices here, so keeping the RF to a minimum is essential).
Anyone have any knowledge on the subject and possible ways I can keep a high shield on the line? About how long can you make a run like this?

ECUPirate · 04-29-2002, 10:36 PM

are your hard drives quiet?

have you considered changing the PSU fan out for a quieter one, and adding a rheostat to the fan... (add wire to the fan leads, and run them to the rheostat, mounted anywhere you like).

I don't know if the power leads from the PSU can be extended by much... I seem to recall that some enermax PSUs had issues because of their unusually long power leads, but I may be mistaken. If you can extend them, why not shield them w/ something? Would wrapping them in Al foil work? Just an idea.

DeafinONEear · 04-29-2002, 10:47 PM

wrapping them in Al might work in other situations, but that would be a BIGBIGBIGBIG nono for me-- my equipment would be picking up radio stations in Tijuana if I did that and I'm not too into recording an acoustic guitar track with Banda in the background.

The hard drives are quiet as hell. I have them in silentdrives, remember? The loudest thing right now is the PSU, but the sound of the monitor is also audible (i turn that off when tracking). I have tried switching out fans, but the one that came with it is the quietest one of them all. To tell you the truth, I don't trust the rheo. I know that at some point I would probably leave the fan turned way down and forget to bring it back up, and I don't want to see what happens to a hot PSU over time.
I really want to find a way to remote the PSU.

ECUPirate · 04-29-2002, 10:54 PM

hehe.. didn't think about radio reception...

the rheo's not that bad.. even a small reduction in voltage can quiet down an 80mm fan. 9v=plenty of air flow, MUCH less noise 7v=enough air, no noise really... but if you can hear your monitor, it may still bother you.

PSU fans serve two functions.. they cool the PSU, and the vent the hot case air away. Normally, you've got the hot case air flowing through the PSU, increasing the airflow needed to keep the PSU from overheating. Since all of your components are WC, the ambients in the case should be close to room temp. Thus, you wouldn't need as much air flow. the Rheo should work fine.
I'd try it.

One note... If you've got a "fan controlling" enermax, your 80mm fan is already running at low speeds. The 92mm fan in the bottom is the culprit, and can be run at 5v with a simple switch. With cool case temps, this is fine.

ECUPirate · 04-29-2002, 10:56 PM

ps.. you know, I'd like to remote my whole damn computer. That would solve my problems.... hehe...I'm thinking Anchorage should be far enough...

OcPunK · 04-29-2002, 11:12 PM

mod the PSU so u can put a 120MM fan on the bottom of it then run the 120mm at 5 or 7Vs

DeafinONEear · 04-30-2002, 12:10 AM

the point is to have no fans, not add more fans.

I don't know... I'm still a little dubious of the rheo... I'll look into it.

Yeah, ya know, about remoting to Anchorage, I recently bought a copy of Timbuktu thinking that it would transport my computer to a distant african mountain, but now I'm just stck with a piece of software poop that no other PC uses.... damn!

Sooooooooo...... anyone else know about PSU lines and bad things about lengthening them?

Cyco-Dude · 04-30-2002, 12:34 AM

you could get an adjustable fan from CrazyPC. i wouldnt know about lengthening the cables...

ECUPirate · 04-30-2002, 12:41 AM

sounds like a regular 80mm fan w/ a rheo included to me... I'm not too keen on enermax's fans. They aren't very quiet, or at least the ones in PSUs that I've fiddles with aren't.

OcPunK · 04-30-2002, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeafinONEear
the point is to have no fans, not add more fans.

if u only have the 120mm at 5V it wont make any noise and that will be enough cooling for the whole psu

Brad · 04-30-2002, 05:24 AM

don't extend the cables, thats half the reason why enermax's suck.

I'm running a 120mm in my 300w, it does a great job to reduce the noise of the variable 80mm fan, and it gives better voltages.

Cyco-Dude · 04-30-2002, 08:54 AM

heres an idea. why not move the entire computer case elsewhere, and just extend the keyboard, mouse, and monitor cables.

ECUPirate · 04-30-2002, 10:13 AM

hehe OK. here's a thought. Take the fans out of the PSU. Make a duct and run it through the wall, and place it against the PSU where the fan used to be. In the other room, Put a low speed 120mm fan at the end of the duct, pulling air through. I'm not sure what kind of flow you'd get, but hey...

DeafinONEear · 04-30-2002, 12:16 PM

Cyco-Dude,
because I have a 16 channel breakout box, a minidisc deck, a Dat deck and a SPDIF bus, all of which need to be connected to the case using cables that can't go for long runs. All the equipment is right here and as such the case needs to be too.

ECU,
I like that idea but there comes a point in a persons life when they realize that they've gone too far. I think that would be the point.

hmmmm... rheo looking more and more like an option.

DigitalChaos · 04-30-2002, 01:17 PM

i saw someone who made a box lined with insulation, kinda like a quiet drive case for the whole computer.... but

then there were 2 winding chanels ontop of the box, one for air intake, and one for exhaust. the chanels were also lined with insulation. this would be VERY effective, and pretty cheap to do, but it would get you computer pretty warm if you didnt get decent fans.

if i find that link, ill post it.

OcPunK · 04-30-2002, 02:47 PM

Maybe u should just get some ear plugs instead or just turn your mp3s uplouder.

DeafinONEear · 04-30-2002, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OcPunK
Maybe u should just get some ear plugs instead or just turn your mp3s uplouder.

haha!!! do they make earplugs for microphones?

Yeah, I've looked into the insulation thing, but I don't really have any noise except for the PSU fan, which connects to the outside meaning that the insulation would be useless.

I would like to read that site if you have a link though.

I don't need to really worry about heat as I'm H2O cooling the CPU, chipset, GPU and HDD's and have sinks on the AGP RAM. This is a large amount of heat dissapation and a closed box w/o a fan shouldn't be a problem now.

Brad · 05-01-2002, 01:32 AM

the solution was near the top of the thread.

put a 120mm in the bottom, 80mm in the front both blowing in, and remove the back fan. buy silent 120 and 80'

DeafinONEear · 05-01-2002, 03:06 AM

I'm sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree. I don't belive that adding more fans is the solution. I don't care how "quiet" some fans may be-- the fact of the matter is that a fan puts out noise. And adding more fans puts out more noise.
Perhaps the idea of remoting the PSU is a bit extreme, but it underlines my need to absolutely remove all artificial noise pollution. This being said I just can't accept adding more fans as a viable option.
I think that the most promising way to go at this point is probably a rheo, though I don't really need a four point control panel. That enermax fan at crazy PC is more like what I need, but I agree with ECU-- stay away from enermax.
I wonder if there is any documentation around about making your own voltage control, something I would be much more interetsed in, especially given that I could create a custom mount that would look a hell of a lot better than that enermax one.
I don't really need to worry about heat. Again, all my major components are h2o'd and I live in San Francisco where once every 4 months it gets over 80 degrees outside.
thanks for the thought though.

OcPunK · 05-01-2002, 04:16 AM

take a 120mm fan give it 5-7Vs tell me u can hear that?

Brad · 05-01-2002, 04:43 AM

http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/F-007.html

buy 3 of these, run two on either side, and one at the front of the psu all blowing in at 5 or 7 volts.

http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/F-242.html

buy one of them, have it on the bottom of the psu, run it at as low as possible (it might work at 4v)

you will NEVER be able to hear those fans, simple as that

DeafinONEear · 05-01-2002, 11:34 AM

Right, I probably won't be able to hear it, but it's a matter of will an extremely sensitive mic be able to hear it?
I can see putting one on the back w/ a volt mod, but not another on the bottom.
Why do you suggest the one on the bottom?

Cyco-Dude · 05-01-2002, 12:44 PM

why dont you just undervolt whatever fan you currently have? or better yet, just take the fan out (what PSU do you have?). get large heatsink, and passively cool the transistors, etc. they already have heatsinks on them; im suggesting you mod your PSU and install much larger heatsinks so they can be passively cooled. that could do the trick.

ECUPirate · 05-01-2002, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/F-007.html

buy 3 of these, run two on either side, and one at the front of the psu all blowing in at 5 or 7 volts.

Those 80mm fans are useless at 5v... I've got 3 of them. 7v is OK... 12v is noisy w/ 3 of them... kindof high pitched.

DeafinONEear · 05-01-2002, 01:55 PM

can you passively cool them? I wasn't aware that it would be safe.
I'm at work now, so I don't know right now what the make of the PSU is, but it's a 300W.
Would taking out the fan put too much of a load on the transformer? Would that spill over into the line power?

04-29-2002, 10:30 PM	#1
DeafinONEear Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 33	WC or remote a power supply? So I am absolutely happy with the wc setup I just pulled off; the res and rad/fan are in another room and things are really quiet... *EXCEPT* for that goddamn PSU fan. so I have two ideas. One is to watercool it. I have seen it done, but I am not fully convinced that it is the smartest thing to do, considering that 1) if you have just one small leak you're out to fry a whole lotta stuff and 2) you're not cooling all the components, all of which put off alot of heat and need to be cooled. Two, and the one I am more partial to is to remote that PSU in the next room along with the res/rad. I haven't yet patched up the holes in the wall, so this won't be the most difficult thing. What I am worried about is being able to carry a load for 15 feet with such a low impedance and also the amount of RF interference and other noise that a line like that would produce for other electronic devices (I am running alot of audio devices here, so keeping the RF to a minimum is essential). Anyone have any knowledge on the subject and possible ways I can keep a high shield on the line? About how long can you make a run like this?

04-29-2002, 10:36 PM	#2
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	are your hard drives quiet? have you considered changing the PSU fan out for a quieter one, and adding a rheostat to the fan... (add wire to the fan leads, and run them to the rheostat, mounted anywhere you like). I don't know if the power leads from the PSU can be extended by much... I seem to recall that some enermax PSUs had issues because of their unusually long power leads, but I may be mistaken. If you can extend them, why not shield them w/ something? Would wrapping them in Al foil work? Just an idea. __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

04-29-2002, 10:54 PM	#4
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	hehe.. didn't think about radio reception... the rheo's not that bad.. even a small reduction in voltage can quiet down an 80mm fan. 9v=plenty of air flow, MUCH less noise 7v=enough air, no noise really... but if you can hear your monitor, it may still bother you. PSU fans serve two functions.. they cool the PSU, and the vent the hot case air away. Normally, you've got the hot case air flowing through the PSU, increasing the airflow needed to keep the PSU from overheating. Since all of your components are WC, the ambients in the case should be close to room temp. Thus, you wouldn't need as much air flow. the Rheo should work fine. I'd try it. One note... If you've got a "fan controlling" enermax, your 80mm fan is already running at low speeds. The 92mm fan in the bottom is the culprit, and can be run at 5v with a simple switch. With cool case temps, this is fine. __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

04-29-2002, 10:56 PM	#5
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	ps.. you know, I'd like to remote my whole damn computer. That would solve my problems.... hehe...I'm thinking Anchorage should be far enough... __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

04-29-2002, 11:12 PM	#6
OcPunK Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under ground cave in PA to keep PCs cool! Posts: 125	mod the PSU so u can put a 120MM fan on the bottom of it then run the 120mm at 5 or 7Vs __________________ www.1337info.com

04-29-2002, 10:47 PM	#3
DeafinONEear Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 33	wrapping them in Al might work in other situations, but that would be a BIGBIGBIGBIG nono for me-- my equipment would be picking up radio stations in Tijuana if I did that and I'm not too into recording an acoustic guitar track with Banda in the background. The hard drives are quiet as hell. I have them in silentdrives, remember? The loudest thing right now is the PSU, but the sound of the monitor is also audible (i turn that off when tracking). I have tried switching out fans, but the one that came with it is the quietest one of them all. To tell you the truth, I don't trust the rheo. I know that at some point I would probably leave the fan turned way down and forget to bring it back up, and I don't want to see what happens to a hot PSU over time. I really want to find a way to remote the PSU.

04-30-2002, 12:10 AM	#7
DeafinONEear Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 33	the point is to have no fans, not add more fans. I don't know... I'm still a little dubious of the rheo... I'll look into it. Yeah, ya know, about remoting to Anchorage, I recently bought a copy of Timbuktu thinking that it would transport my computer to a distant african mountain, but now I'm just stck with a piece of software poop that no other PC uses.... damn! Sooooooooo...... anyone else know about PSU lines and bad things about lengthening them?

04-30-2002, 12:34 AM	#8
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	you could get an adjustable fan from CrazyPC. i wouldnt know about lengthening the cables...

04-30-2002, 12:41 AM	#9
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	sounds like a regular 80mm fan w/ a rheo included to me... I'm not too keen on enermax's fans. They aren't very quiet, or at least the ones in PSUs that I've fiddles with aren't. __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

04-30-2002, 05:24 AM	#11
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	don't extend the cables, thats half the reason why enermax's suck. I'm running a 120mm in my 300w, it does a great job to reduce the noise of the variable 80mm fan, and it gives better voltages. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-30-2002, 08:54 AM	#12
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	heres an idea. why not move the entire computer case elsewhere, and just extend the keyboard, mouse, and monitor cables.

04-30-2002, 10:13 AM	#13
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	hehe OK. here's a thought. Take the fans out of the PSU. Make a duct and run it through the wall, and place it against the PSU where the fan used to be. In the other room, Put a low speed 120mm fan at the end of the duct, pulling air through. I'm not sure what kind of flow you'd get, but hey... __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

04-30-2002, 12:16 PM	#14
DeafinONEear Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 33	Cyco-Dude, because I have a 16 channel breakout box, a minidisc deck, a Dat deck and a SPDIF bus, all of which need to be connected to the case using cables that can't go for long runs. All the equipment is right here and as such the case needs to be too. ECU, I like that idea but there comes a point in a persons life when they realize that they've gone too far. I think that would be the point. hmmmm... rheo looking more and more like an option.

04-30-2002, 01:17 PM	#15
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	i saw someone who made a box lined with insulation, kinda like a quiet drive case for the whole computer.... but then there were 2 winding chanels ontop of the box, one for air intake, and one for exhaust. the chanels were also lined with insulation. this would be VERY effective, and pretty cheap to do, but it would get you computer pretty warm if you didnt get decent fans. if i find that link, ill post it.

04-30-2002, 02:47 PM	#16
OcPunK Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under ground cave in PA to keep PCs cool! Posts: 125	Maybe u should just get some ear plugs instead or just turn your mp3s uplouder. __________________ www.1337info.com

05-01-2002, 01:32 AM	#18
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	the solution was near the top of the thread. put a 120mm in the bottom, 80mm in the front both blowing in, and remove the back fan. buy silent 120 and 80' __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

05-01-2002, 03:06 AM	#19
DeafinONEear Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 33	I'm sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree. I don't belive that adding more fans is the solution. I don't care how "quiet" some fans may be-- the fact of the matter is that a fan puts out noise. And adding more fans puts out more noise. Perhaps the idea of remoting the PSU is a bit extreme, but it underlines my need to absolutely remove all artificial noise pollution. This being said I just can't accept adding more fans as a viable option. I think that the most promising way to go at this point is probably a rheo, though I don't really need a four point control panel. That enermax fan at crazy PC is more like what I need, but I agree with ECU-- stay away from enermax. I wonder if there is any documentation around about making your own voltage control, something I would be much more interetsed in, especially given that I could create a custom mount that would look a hell of a lot better than that enermax one. I don't really need to worry about heat. Again, all my major components are h2o'd and I live in San Francisco where once every 4 months it gets over 80 degrees outside. thanks for the thought though.

05-01-2002, 04:16 AM	#20
OcPunK Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under ground cave in PA to keep PCs cool! Posts: 125	take a 120mm fan give it 5-7Vs tell me u can hear that? __________________ www.1337info.com

05-01-2002, 04:43 AM	#21
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/F-007.html buy 3 of these, run two on either side, and one at the front of the psu all blowing in at 5 or 7 volts. http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/F-242.html buy one of them, have it on the bottom of the psu, run it at as low as possible (it might work at 4v) you will NEVER be able to hear those fans, simple as that __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

05-01-2002, 11:34 AM	#22
DeafinONEear Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 33	Right, I probably won't be able to hear it, but it's a matter of will an extremely sensitive mic be able to hear it? I can see putting one on the back w/ a volt mod, but not another on the bottom. Why do you suggest the one on the bottom?

05-01-2002, 12:44 PM	#23
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	why dont you just undervolt whatever fan you currently have? or better yet, just take the fan out (what PSU do you have?). get large heatsink, and passively cool the transistors, etc. they already have heatsinks on them; im suggesting you mod your PSU and install much larger heatsinks so they can be passively cooled. that could do the trick.

05-01-2002, 01:55 PM	#25
DeafinONEear Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 33	can you passively cool them? I wasn't aware that it would be safe. I'm at work now, so I don't know right now what the make of the PSU is, but it's a 300W. Would taking out the fan put too much of a load on the transformer? Would that spill over into the line power?

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