is this gonna be a problem

[toddalaska]

Hey guys another noob here.

basicaly i got about everything its just a matter of trying wcing.

my problem is i have the jagged edge wb which comes with 3/8s fittings


everything else i got has 1/2.

can the fittings on the wb be switched easily or should i just use 3/8 toobing and stretch over all the 1/2 fittings on the other stuff.

Im trying to get thest performance possible and just need some help with this problem

heres my setup

jagged edge wb with 3/8
dodge caravan heater core 1/2 (actually 5/8s modded to 1/2)
via 1300 inline pump with 1/2

the res il figure out in a bit

[jeff0628]

You shouldnt have any problems removing the 3/8's barbs from the wb and replacing them with 1/2". You will need a 3/8's to 1/2" adapter to fit the block.

[jtroutma]

First off,

Yes you can replace the fittings on the block.

Yes you can also use 3/8 ID hose over all your 1/2 fittings.

Here is your problem:
The water block is designed with a 3/8" channel and 3/8" fittings. THe rest of your system is 1/2". That means your entire system will be reduces to only the volume of water that can pass through the 3/8 channel that is in the water block.

In the end, you will end up with a 3/8" system even though everything else is 1/2". TRUE, it could be possible for the system to work slightly better than a 3/8" system because everything else is 1/2" but you still have the MOST restriction in the system being the smallest part, hence your problem.

Dont get me wrong, the block itself works fine (I am currently useing one myself ) however it was designed for a 3/8" not a 1/2"

IF someone can prove me wrong, please do.

[toddalaska]

How does it perform at 3/8 ?

pretty decent?

[Brad]

I'd just buy 3/8" tubing, it's cheaper and easier than 1/2", which in this case won't give you any better performance, as jt explained.

[bigben2k]

Nah... if you have the parts, work with them: get the adapter.

The block will restrict the flow the most, but all blocks do, so no big deal.

That pump really needs the 1/2 in. tubing, otherwise the tubing (along with everything else) will also become a restriction, reducing your effective flow even more.

[jeff0628]

Me personally I would go 1/2" on the wb. I didnt want to write a 1/2 page theory behind water restriction but jt pretty much summed it up. To be honest with your block running the 1/2" fittings you probably wont notice much difference in temps.

However by doing this all of your other components in the system are 1/2" and if you ever decide to step up to a 1/2" wb to increase your overall flow rate then the rest of your system is already to go. But as it stands your bottleneck or slowest flow rate is at your wb.

I wouldnt worry to much about it, you should get decent temps.

[dcrainman]

I think that if you're going to have a bottleneck at any point in your system the waterblock is the best place, heck it might even be beneficial with its added restriction causing more heat to transfer from the block

[jtroutma]

toddalaska:

In my currect setup, I am using all 3/8" except for the radiator (which is 1/2" split into two but that is another story). With a 1.4T-bird @ 1.85V @ 1725(11.5x150FSB) I get temps between 38C-42C all depending on how hot/cold it is in my place. The difference between my case temps and my CPU temps are 6C-7C.
I am planning on replaceing my Block with a TC-4 mainly because I want the mounting holes and it looks cool (hope that it preforms better than what DodgeViper claims though
:shrug:

If you are interested in it, I will be willing to part with it for say $15. Otherwise it was a good block. NO major problems and performed well. I just got tired of dealing with the POS clamp I got for it

Your results may vary.

[Cova]

Ok - one thing to remember is that the flow-rate at any point in the entire system is always going to be the same. What is going to change is the speed of the water - faster through thinner areas and slower through larger areas. That - and the flow-rate will of course depend on the resistance of the entire system as a whole.

Now - if you use 3/8" tubing you will have a lower flow-rate than if you use 1/2" tubing. You can never have too-much flow-rate, and having lower resistance will make your pump quieter and produce less excess heat. But 1/2" tubing also means you need to change the fittings on your block.

Because the inside channels of your block (regardless of fittings/tubing) are relatively small, the water will flow faster through the block than through the other parts of the system. This should give you a larger temp delta between the block and the water, which should allow the water to keep the block cooler. When the water exits the block and enters into a much larger rad, it will slow down - which gives the rad more time to cool the water down.

So - depending on how much flow you are looking for, larger tubing will give you lower overall resistance in the circuit and a slightly higher flow-rate. With the insides of the block already likely much less than 3/8", I don't know how much difference it would make.

[jeff0628]

WHAT!!

Ok - one thing to remember is that the flow-rate at any point in the entire system is always going to be the same. What is going to change is the speed of the water

The speed of the water IS the flow rate. You are contradicting yourself.

You can never have too-much flow-rate

If your flow rate is too high then the water will not have time to cool in the radiator, therefore defeating the whole purpose of watercooling. There has to be a balance between flow resistance in your system and water flow. If you can never have to much flow then why not run 2" hose pumping 1,500 gph!

I dont mean to rip into someones reply but lets think things through.

[dcrainman]

speed of water does not equal flow rate

water can move really fast through a small tube and have same flow rate as slow water through big tube

I say the system is fine, its exactly what you want cause your waterblock will be supplied with the water it needs

[dcrainman]

its the same principal as using higher guage wire for longer runs

[jeff0628]

In terms of larger guage wire, the larger wire can carry more amps (water flow) than a smaller guage of wire.

But I do understand what you said about water flowing faster in a small tube and water flowing slower in a larger tube having the same flow rate.

Sorry if I seemed "hasty" in my previous reply I'm not having a good day.

[bigben2k]

Glad to see I'm not alone...

A wire carries power (Watts). Wether it's 12V @ 10 Amps, or 120V @ 1 amp, its still 120 Watts.

[dcrainman]

ok forget the analogy I don't feel like explaining

[jtroutma]

Cova:

Your idea about having a large volume of water pass faster through a smaller channel and cooling more effeciently ONLY works if you have sufficent pressure behind that volume. Otherwise the small channel will simply slow down the whole system. Our aquarium pumps were not designed for high pressure but volume.

[Cova]

Ok - flow rate (as we typically measure it) is gallons per hour. Assuming a constant flow rate of 1 gallon per hour, it's quite obvious that the speed of the water in a 3/8" tube is MUCH faster than the speed of the water through a 1' diameter pipe. Now I know that flow-rate could also be interpreted as the rate of speed at which the water flows, but thats not what I meant above - I'm talking volume per time flow-rates.

As for a small channel slowing down the whole system, of course it will. But one small section of an entire cooling loop does not dictate the resistance to flow of the entire system, regardless of the pressure of the system. The entire water-cooling loop will have a certain value that reflects how much it resists the flow of water (in an electric circuit it would be ohm's, I have no idea what the unit is for resisting coolant flow). Then there is a pump providing pressure (in the electric circuit, you'd have a voltage from a battery/PSU). With knowledge of those two things you can calculate flow-rate in gallons per hour (amps in the electrical circuit). And just as in electricity where a thicher wire not only carries more amps, but also has a lower resistance, a larger coolant tube will offer less resistance to flow.

And as I kind of hinted towards, but didn't say as clearly as I meant to in my original post - I don't think it'll make much difference in one of our systems which size you go with, but if you don't have the tubing yet you may as well go with 1/2" and get every little bit of advantage you can get out of it.

[bigben2k]

Exactly... right on the money, Cova!

and like I said earlier, stick with what you have, and get the adapters.

[dcrainman]

agreed

[jtroutma]

At this point I must agree that it would be a wiser choice to go ahead and put in the 1/2" tubing because everything else is already 1/2" and it will make upgrading to a 1/2" block easier and faster in the future.

However dont expect 1/2" performace out of that system (even though the difference would probly not even be that noticeable).


Also with what you were explaining with the annalogy of electricy; is it possible to run say 120V @ 1A over a 24AWG wire?
How about 12V @ 10A over a 24AWG wire? Even 1.2V @ 100A over a 24AWG wire?

Not trying to undermine you (would actually love to learn some more about this subject to be honest )

Here is a good question:
Say we have 12V @ 20A and that is running through say a 10AWG wire. What would happen if we cut that wire and added in a small run of 20AWG wire in between the 10AWG?
Not testing you; I just want to know...........

MY understanding is that when it comes to a liquid system, you can get a flow rate ( volume of water X speed it is traveling at) of "X" out of a system. When you add restrictions, either more bends (lower speed) or smaller channels (lower volume), it reduces your over all flowrate. You can overcome some of the restrictions one one side of the equation by compensation on the other.

In this situation; we are going from a high volume and high speed flow to a smaller volume with about same speed. Well what happens at the other end? THe volume going though the channel cant change but the speed can. Problem is that our pumps DONT operate as pressure pumps but as volume pumps. SO unless we have a pump that can put some extra "umph" into the liquid (in the form of pressure) then the flow on the other side should only have a high speed but a lower volume.

OK!!!! I am done with the typing!

I guess let the "constructive critisism" begin!

[jeff0628]

At this point everybody pretty much is correct and understands the theory behind flow rate and electrical pressure (volts) and that splicing in a smaller wire in with the 10awg would act like a resistor in series and "Absorb" the pressure thus increasing resistance. If the wire is too small and the voltage is enough the smaller wire would eventually "burn" due to not being able to withstand the resistance or heat build up.

I think by now we are way off the subject, and just trying to through our intellectual testosterone around, myself included, but it has been FUN!

[bigben2k]

I'll answer jtroutma...

There is a point in electrical current where the amperage is so high, that it restricts the current.

Similarly, there is a point where the coolant speed is so high, that the pressure buildup increases to restrict flow.

That aside, the analogy stands. If you want to be picky, I'll throw this in: 60 volts @ 50 amps, versus 50 volts @ 60 amps. Both are 3000 watts.

[jtroutma]

BigBen:

Yes, 60V @ 50A & 50V @ 60A both equal 3000W.

Mostly what I was trying do was continue with the analogy of electricity to water by asking "what if" questions to see if I was going the right direction. Not to mention that it also helped to make sure that I was thinking straight (Too many nights of only 5 1/2 hours of sleep)

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by jtroutma
Too many nights of only 5 1/2 hours of sleep

Dido...