DD hits a new low..

[bikr]

Crazyness.. not only did DangerDen find that their blocks were faulty , then refuse to go public with information about it.. instead they just offered new copper tops.. , now they are modifying black ice micros , and saying they are the first to do it hahahaha.. that's too funny.. I got my sysfx micro 2 weeks ago and it was modified , and the one from sysfx has stronger inlets , well.. i guess DD is scraping the bottom for that last sale in a "appearence" market , i personally wouldn't put looks before performance.. but whatever floats your boat i guess.. just a tip to the people out there , beware of DD's willingness to help out , when they mess up.. had a few bad experiences myself.. ==Bikr

[decodeddiesel]

Um, this seems pretty unfounded to me, perhaps some proof to these claims? I can tell you the "fault" in the maze 3 was not with the Lucite tops, but rather with the type of screws which it was secured with. DD has infact fixed this now. I'm not calling you a liar but without proof this is pretty shady of you.

[bigben2k]

I agree, DD has done its fair part in fixing problems that have come up. Maybe it wasn't ideal, but I certainly don't see anything to complain about, considering what this product is.

If I did have one complaint about DD, it'd be about their website: it needs some tweaking

[bikr]

sorry about that.. didn't mean to leave it dark like that.. but .. never once has DD admitted to a problem , they just fixed it and left everyone who already had a bad one , learn the hardway that it was faulty.. nowhere have they admitted to a problem.. just a sudden solution.. and as to them saying they are the first with the modified micros' just goto their site.. it's right on the first page.. they posted that like 2 days ago , and I've had mine from sysfx.net for about 2 weeks.. so I don't see how they could be the first ones to do it... --Bikr

[bigben2k]

Well, first off, DD doesn't make the BI's, they're made by some offshore company (Phillipines, Puerto Rico?), so there was probably some kind of notice issued by BI, to all the distributors, that they knew that there was a problem and that they were working on it.

DD was probably the first US company to apply any kind of fix, WITHIN THE US. So there, the claim would be true.

You'll find that a lot around the US: claims to be the first... you have to read between the lines.

As for their tops, well, watercooling isn't anywhere near being standardized, so the block was probably working just fine, for 95% of the users. The other 5% is the users that use it in a weird way (big pump, hot water, weird water, who knows?). So DD makes a fix, and revises/refines their manufacturing process, to cover for some of the 5% of idiots out there...

And actually, we discussed the problem extensively here, and we found that there was no problem whatsoever, for practical purposes. It was strictly an esthetic issue.

[bigben2k]

Yup, the Phillipines
That would explain your 2 week delay.

Do you know what's going on in the Phillipines today?

[bikr]

I didn't get the BI micro from the phillipeans.. I got it from a US company.. who had already modd'd the micros.. and they aren't having any problems , they are just smaller and thinner inlets on the stock version.. I recieved mine 2 weeks ago , sysfx had them before i ordered them obviousley.. and mine is modified.. so your statement would be false about being the first american company to modify it.. and as for the tops.. more than 5$ have had problems , and more and more will realize that eventually that they have a defective block.. -bikr

[bigben2k]

Yep, so DD's claim is false, but hey, no harm done, right?

What problem are you refering to, about the Maze3? I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.

Personally, I never liked the Maze2, and although the Maze 3 looks nice, I don't see the big deal/fuss about it.:shrug:

[bikr]

The lucite top will eventually bubble up at the corners , and boom there goes your coolant..

[bigben2k]

We covered that here:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3475

The problem is because the block is allowed to get too hot.

So if your pump fails, especially if you have a pelt, then yes there is a problem.

Is it DD's fault?

[bikr]

ok , that's fine.. in those cases , but , what about the fact that the lack of cooling space , in contact with the cpu , getting hot? and the fact that the lucite , touches those areas as well as the ones that are cooled by water.. that was the problem in my case.. I'm sure if i turned my pc off every night nothing would happen , but my maze 3 bubbled up in a week , no pump failure , and i don't run pelt..

[JimS]

I got my mini radiator from sfx and it did not appear modified. What do you mean by this?

[bikr]

the inlets are modified.. the ones that come stock are 1/4 inch.. i believe.. the ones on the sfx are 5/16" they are larger , and won't slide out on ya... not a really big problem , as long as you test your systems haha.. but i perfer the modded one from sfx.. over the stock..

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by bikr
ok , that's fine.. in those cases , but , what about the fact that the lack of cooling space , in contact with the cpu , getting hot? and the fact that the lucite , touches those areas as well as the ones that are cooled by water.. that was the problem in my case.. I'm sure if i turned my pc off every night nothing would happen , but my maze 3 bubbled up in a week , no pump failure , and i don't run pelt..

Ah, that's different! We didn't cover that...

So the lucite top is very bad, huh?

[bikr]

in my experience it was bad.. basically the non cooled parts , "part of block with no channel" heated up high enough to bubble the lucite.. bikr

[JimS]

Now I understand. Yes, the stock micro comes with 1/4" inlet/outlets. And that is the very reason I ordered from SFX as they advertised 5/16". Thanx for clearing that up.

[bikr]

n/p , DD's are modified , but still smaller than sysfx's .. kinda pointless to mod them , if you're not going to do it substantially..

[gogo]

as far as notifying people about a problem, you're talking about a very select group of people that even use the product(s).

let us say for the sake of argument and easy math, that in the first 2 weeks there were 1,000 blocks sold and shipped. Now potentially every one of these blocks that shipped has the possibility of being/going bad. either due to the screws, or sloppy handling from the overly excited person who installed it, whatever the reason doesn't matter.
Now someone notices a fault, for the sake of arguement we'll say Bob had a leak. He noticed at 8am (still being up from the night before) Bob emails DD at 8:30 (had to get over his shock), DD gets the email and reads it about 8:45 (assuming they are there before 9:00). DD think's 'OH SHIT!', 'no way', 'we ran all kinds of tests'. Now Bob was very descriptive in his email as to what the problem was (that's probably assuming a helluva lot), so DD get's to trying to recreate the problem to see if they can find a solution and determine if it's all the blocks or or just a fluke with BOBs. While DD is doing that Bob is getting pissed (it has after all been 1 whole hour) He has decided to post on every forum he can.
Within an hour most have read about Bobs leaking, and DD is getting flooded with email before they can even determine the cause. By the next day everyone knows about big bad Bob's broken block, (not to mention how much flaming can be typed in 24hrs) Now 1 day is not enough time to determine what the problem is, in the meantime there was no need to tell everyone as the majority, probably 90% have already heard about it and there is still the possibility that not all the blocks will have a problem. At this point it has been a few days, and DD hasdetermined the problem. They offer a solution and a few options.

With as quick as word spread about the screw issue, I don't think there was any need for a "press release". DD has fixed the problem on the new blocks.
what do you mean by bubble up?

It ttok so long to type this at work the last question has been answered. I don't understand how your edges got that hot though.

[zoson]

I totally have to go to bat for DD. I got one of their very first Maze3's, and it was terrible. Not only did I have the countersunk screws, but my top was SEVERELY cracked after a few days of use, due to what I think was overtightened screws, and thermal expansion. I emailed DD about this, and they offered to send me a new top for my block, along with the new button head screws for no charge. A few days later I got a WHOLE NEW block. Not just the top, a completely new block. The new block appeared no different than the old cracked block, but performed an easy 2-3C better.
If that's not taking care of the customer and making sure he gets what he wants, I don't know what is. I cannot imagine the top "bubbling up" in any form or fasion, as long as you are sufficiently cooling the block. I've been running my maze3 for a few months now and I've had no problems with it at all. I think you have made an error.
-Zoson

[ECUPirate]

dude, I got one of the first maze3's w/ the countersunk screws as well. ... except, mine was fine. I actually lapped the block, using the barbs (in part) to hold the block. In hindsight, that should have cracked the hell out of it. Nope. I ran that block for a few months on my Athlon, and everything was fine. No bubble, no cracks.
I switched to P4, so I had to get a new top. They sent me a 478 copper top for half price, because I voiced concern over the original top.
While I had my worries over the original top, (also, the block wasn't flat... needed MUCH lapping), I would still buy from DDen again. They're OK.

/rant I will say this: I ordered the new top on a Monday morning, and had it shipped 2 day air. It shipped a week later, and arrived either Wed or Thur of that following week. (10-11 days) I know DDen is a small operation, but that's farking ridiculous. If someone asks for something and is willing to pay air freight, put a rush on it for pete's sake. /end rant

[Jim]

I was another that received the Maze 3 with the countersunk fasteners and a crack or two in the lexan top.

Indeed I was quite pissed about the whole thing but in the end Danger Den came through and sent me a new block with an upgraded design and it is still inside the box doing its job very well.

Yes, I wish they had gotten it right the first time, but at least they made good when the problem surfaced.

I think it would be a shame if I (we) couldn't go to them for additional items and new products in the future.
Jim

[mkosem]

bikr, did you used to use the 2600 IRC server in the #oh2600 channel? I remember that nick spelled the same as yours. My nick used to be marko on that server.

--Matt

[ambient]

Now I understand. Yes, the stock micro comes with 1/4" inlet/outlets. And that is the very reason I ordered from SFX as they advertised 5/16". Thanx for clearing that up.

n/p , DD's are modified , but still smaller than sysfx's .. kinda pointless to mod them , if you're not going to do it substantially..

So what...how much bigger are sysfx's barbs then dd's 1/32 of an inch. lol...lmao....roflamo... really does it matter that much? why not just askt them to mod it for you to like 3/8" or 1/2" i'm sure they would if you would pay$$$

[ambient]

whoops kind of drunk here sorry.. too much vodka. In the last post I put up the below was suppose to be a quote. flame me if you want. ;-)

n/p , DD's are modified , but still smaller than sysfx's .. kinda pointless to mod them , if you're not going to do it substantially..

[Khledar]

Ok i'll flame you but only cause you asked nicely. Silly ambient.. just use the quote function next time you're going to end the world doing that.... EVIL