pelt water chiller, looking solid

g.l.amour · 08-23-2002, 04:28 AM

what do u guys think of this idea, is it worthwhile? it looks a better setup than unaclockers pelt water chiller setup. text is in french but the pics should be self explanatory.

http://www.overclex.net/content.php3...D43%26page%3D1

JimS · 08-23-2002, 08:05 AM

Cooling the hotside with air is not the best way to do this type of chilling. It should work but will only drop the water temp. a couple of degrees at most. I made a similar tank out of copper, using air at first with two pelts. It helped a little, but when I switched over to water on the hotside, it nearly doubled the performance.

g.l.amour · 08-23-2002, 08:08 AM

hmm, that kinda sux. i'd like the simplicity of that design, if u'd have to use a second waterloop to cool the pelt, the ease of use is not too gr8. i already thought that the aircooling part was not going to be that gr8. maybe we could make a roomheater out of the hotside of the pelt; saves me an extra stove in the room ;-)

bigben2k · 08-23-2002, 08:34 AM

I saw that design some months back: the guy who runs the website came here for a while.

It does work, but it is limited. You have to remember first of all that if a pelt is air cooled, then its max rating will be around 80 watts, and that just doesn't cut it anymore.

Even though pelts are rated for power, you have to remember that the heat transfer is not very efficient, so the pelt should be rated for at least 50% more than your heat source, so that leaves that little 80 watt pelt to cool a 53 Watt heat source. Also, because applying power to a pelt becomes inneficient above 85% of the max rating, you don't actually use it for 80 Watts worth, it's more like 68Watts, which would only be good for a 45 Watt source.

The latest AMD CPU is rated for about 70 Watts, with no overvoltage or overclock.

So if you use a pelt that is rated higher, you have to watercool it.

I thought about using this gizmo in a loop, but it would still have to have a radiator, and since the gizmo would bring the temp down, it would also decrease the efficiency of the rad, so it's really no good at all.

g.l.amour · 08-23-2002, 10:08 AM

well, i understand that it wouldn't be the most efficient system. but, the pelt would not have to cool down 80W of the cpu. if it only cools down 50W worth of heated water. then the water will be a little cooler. what interests me the most though is that if the pelt does something horrible, then your cpu doesn't have to die. i was not actually thinking of doing this tho. if i wanted something to cool less than ambient, i like the idea of that one bloke most. dig a big pit, throw in a pressure vat, powerfull pump, long tubes ... H2O temps 10°C al year long. it looks safer than using pelts, vapos and promethia's together.

#Rotor · 08-23-2002, 09:43 PM

remember one thing... (heat in) ==== (heat out)
no matter how many stages of liquid or whatever you have in between....

direct heatsink cooling a TEC is the most effective way to do it, it just is not the most space convenient or bank-balance-friendly way. if you have the space to slap on a heatsink with the surface area of a small heater-core, you will beat a liquid-chilled setup,and that heater-core all the way to the moon. I can theoretically guarantee you that

that setup looks kinda ok... that outside heatsing looks however still way too small...

bigben2k · 08-23-2002, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
well, i understand that it wouldn't be the most efficient system. but, the pelt would not have to cool down 80W of the cpu. if it only cools down 50W worth of heated water. then the water will be a little cooler.

Understood, but if the pelt cools 50 off of an 80 Watt source, then the rest (30) must be cooled by something, right? And if you use a rad, the coolant temp is going to be too low for the rad to extract 30 watts from the coolant... Remember, a rad can only bring water temps down to ambient (under ultimate efficiency). The pelt can bring it down lower...

Also, if the pelt is too powerfull, then the rad actually starts raising the water temp (but it'll cool your room).

Skulemate · 08-23-2002, 10:59 PM

Good God... that's gotta be one of the least efficient uses of a pelt I've ever seen. Why don't you just build a real water chiller?

bigben2k · 08-24-2002, 10:27 AM

It's not that bad... I remember looking at this design, when I realized that the res needs to be turned upside down, so that the coolant completely immerses the heat sink. Knowing the heat source, you'd have to use more than one of these.

Also, there is a problem with ice forming on the fins, and once that happens, efficiency goes down, the coolant temp will rise until the ice melts, and back again... The solution is to keep the water moving quickly through those fins, but that reduces the efficiency too... Another type of coolant would be required, and that's kind of funny because it's strictly so that the water doesn't freeze on the fins, it's not to prevent it from totally freezing altogether.

So the options are:
1- use multiple 80 Watt pelts, and air cool them
or
2-use one big pelt, and water cool it too (2nd loop).

g.l.amour · 08-24-2002, 12:37 PM

thx for the constructive criticism, the idea behind the story from the reviewer might be that it doesn't have to be all the effective, just as long as he doesn't have to put the pelt to near to costly components. he doesn't risk condensation water ruining his rig.
for these reasons i might consider it anyway. although i will stop myself from trying because i have to learn to save my money some instead of expanding the pc all the time.

08-23-2002, 08:34 AM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I saw that design some months back: the guy who runs the website came here for a while. It does work, but it is limited. You have to remember first of all that if a pelt is air cooled, then its max rating will be around 80 watts, and that just doesn't cut it anymore. Even though pelts are rated for power, you have to remember that the heat transfer is not very efficient, so the pelt should be rated for at least 50% more than your heat source, so that leaves that little 80 watt pelt to cool a 53 Watt heat source. Also, because applying power to a pelt becomes inneficient above 85% of the max rating, you don't actually use it for 80 Watts worth, it's more like 68Watts, which would only be good for a 45 Watt source. The latest AMD CPU is rated for about 70 Watts, with no overvoltage or overclock. So if you use a pelt that is rated higher, you have to watercool it. I thought about using this gizmo in a loop, but it would still have to have a radiator, and since the gizmo would bring the temp down, it would also decrease the efficiency of the rad, so it's really no good at all. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-23-2002, 09:43 PM	#6
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	remember one thing... (heat in) ==== (heat out) no matter how many stages of liquid or whatever you have in between.... direct heatsink cooling a TEC is the most effective way to do it, it just is not the most space convenient or bank-balance-friendly way. if you have the space to slap on a heatsink with the surface area of a small heater-core, you will beat a liquid-chilled setup,and that heater-core all the way to the moon. I can theoretically guarantee you that that setup looks kinda ok... that outside heatsing looks however still way too small... __________________ There is no Spoon....

08-23-2002, 10:59 PM	#8
Skulemate Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 381	Good God... that's gotta be one of the least efficient uses of a pelt I've ever seen. Why don't you just build a real water chiller? __________________ Michael E. Robbins M.A.Sc. Candidate, University of Toronto 12.1 GHz of AMD's finest (17.7 GHz total) crunching proudly for the AMDMB.com Killer Frogs SETI BOINC: Dual Opteron 246s (Iwill DK8N) \| XP2800+ (Shuttle SN41G2) \| 3x XP2400+ (ASUS A7N266-vm) SETI BOINC: 2x P4 2.8E (ASUS P4R800-vm) \| Crunching 24/7

08-24-2002, 10:27 AM	#9
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It's not that bad... I remember looking at this design, when I realized that the res needs to be turned upside down, so that the coolant completely immerses the heat sink. Knowing the heat source, you'd have to use more than one of these. Also, there is a problem with ice forming on the fins, and once that happens, efficiency goes down, the coolant temp will rise until the ice melts, and back again... The solution is to keep the water moving quickly through those fins, but that reduces the efficiency too... Another type of coolant would be required, and that's kind of funny because it's strictly so that the water doesn't freeze on the fins, it's not to prevent it from totally freezing altogether. So the options are: 1- use multiple 80 Watt pelts, and air cool them or 2-use one big pelt, and water cool it too (2nd loop). __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-23-2002, 08:05 AM	#2
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	Cooling the hotside with air is not the best way to do this type of chilling. It should work but will only drop the water temp. a couple of degrees at most. I made a similar tank out of copper, using air at first with two pelts. It helped a little, but when I switched over to water on the hotside, it nearly doubled the performance.

08-23-2002, 08:08 AM	#3
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	hmm, that kinda sux. i'd like the simplicity of that design, if u'd have to use a second waterloop to cool the pelt, the ease of use is not too gr8. i already thought that the aircooling part was not going to be that gr8. maybe we could make a roomheater out of the hotside of the pelt; saves me an extra stove in the room ;-)

08-23-2002, 10:08 AM	#5
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	well, i understand that it wouldn't be the most efficient system. but, the pelt would not have to cool down 80W of the cpu. if it only cools down 50W worth of heated water. then the water will be a little cooler. what interests me the most though is that if the pelt does something horrible, then your cpu doesn't have to die. i was not actually thinking of doing this tho. if i wanted something to cool less than ambient, i like the idea of that one bloke most. dig a big pit, throw in a pressure vat, powerfull pump, long tubes ... H2O temps 10°C al year long. it looks safer than using pelts, vapos and promethia's together.

08-24-2002, 12:37 PM	#10
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	thx for the constructive criticism, the idea behind the story from the reviewer might be that it doesn't have to be all the effective, just as long as he doesn't have to put the pelt to near to costly components. he doesn't risk condensation water ruining his rig. for these reasons i might consider it anyway. although i will stop myself from trying because i have to learn to save my money some instead of expanding the pc all the time.

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