Battery effect?? any info appreciated:)

[iceman]

hey guys i was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this "battery effect" I have seen mentioned in passing. I just finished pulling a heatercore from my old hyundai scoupe and found out that its all aluminum( not sure whether this is good or bad) I am in the process of cobbling together all the parts i will need for my first watercooled setup( first of many i am sure) so I just require info right now. I want to use a copper WB and have read that combining copper and aluminum in a system can be bad?? should I look around for an all copper radiator or what?? Any thoughts???

[myv65]

It's called "galvanic corrosion". A search for the terms will yield lots of hits. Quick-and-dirty answer is to get yourself a corrosion inhibitor if you'll be mixing different metals. Just be forewarned that the use of corrosion inhibitors tends to have a noticeable effect on performance. How much of an effect depends on what you use along with the ratio to water.

[iceman]

any ideas what would be the best corrosion inhibitor to use? keeping in mind that I need to squeeze every bit of performance I can get out of this rig.

[bigben2k]

Again, if you run a search, even in this forum, you'll find the following products (among others):
-Water Wetter (pink)
-Silkolene ProCCA (blue)
-Hyperlube (green)
-Purple Ice (purple)
etc.

[iceman]

thanks bigben. I have seen those in other posts however i am just looking for opinions on what is the best. THe other thing I am considering is an all aluminum rig, so any opinions on that are also helpful. I would imagine that i would need a higher flow rate to have an effective cooling solution, but hey if anybody can enlighten me please feel free!! cheers

[bigben2k]

If you really want to know about the Aluminium vs Copper, then go here

Your first task should be to give yourself a goal: do you want a quiet system, or a fat overclock, or both? Is portability an issue? What's your budget?

Once you have that, we'll put you in the right direction...

[iceman]

Well I just got married so money is an issue, like i said I pulled the heatercore from an old car(91 hyundai scoupe) i am giving to a scrapyard( = free heatercore) I want a system that is absolutely quiet first and foremost, I want to be able to leave my computer on all nite while downloading movies off Kazaa( damn slow downloads!!) and I want to be able to overclock reasonably well but not extreme
( no L1 bridging, no volt mods, just fsb increase or vcore increase) Here is my system as it stands:
Msi KT3 ultra raid
AXP 1700
Radeon 8500 275/275
256 ddr 2100
40 gig maxtor
5.1 creative sound card
dlink 530tx NIC
volcano 6cu heatsink/w 39 db fan
2 sunon case fans( soon to be on the radiator i hope)

I would like the system to be portable but it doesnt have to be, I also might look into watercooling the radeon so I can OC it as well
(current OC attempts with stock stuff failed around 301/320)
anyhoo thats the long and the short of it, any ideas bigben??

[iceman]

I am also looking at a little giant high gph pump(900gph) to use but again I am new to this so any ifo is good info in my books!

[bigben2k]

Ok, I think we can do something here.

Here's one option:
go with the Unablock, and use a Via pump (possibly two). That's 37$ plus shipping.

Here's another:
Ditch the core, pick up a copper one at an auto part store for $20-25, use either a Maze3 (new copper top, 35$) or a Spiral ($40) and use either a Danner (?$) or Rio (20-35$, depends on size) pump.

You'll still need tubing, clamps, and either a "T" or an airtrap, whatever you prefer.

As for the anti-corrosion agent, Silkolene is the only one that only requires 1 oz for about a gallon of water, most others require 4 oz/g. Silkolene however is very expensive ($11+ $10 shipping), where the others can be had locally (depending where you live) for $3-5.

BTW: congratulations!

[iceman]

thanks so much for the help big ben! My thoughts about the blocks you mentioned are to actually machine my own, I have been throwing around quite a few ideas in a program called lightwave( its my only 3d rendering prog) and i would of course love to have the bragging rights that i constructed my own system( as much as possible) any ideas on block construction?? I will prolly stay with my aluminum rad so i guess the block will be alu too. currently I am mulling over putting cone shaped projections on the bottom of the block with a cold water inlet over the centre. Although if you have an awesome copper block design I would consider that too.
thanks again!

[bigben2k]

Try this thread

[gmat]

If you go all water (ie NB, GPU etc.) you might consider Innovatek products. They are all alu, apart from their CPU block which has a copper core. They even carry an alu HD block !
Note: i'm not too fond of Innovatek as they're over-advertised but i must admit they deserve their reputation. I don't know about the availability in the US though.

[iceman]

thanks gmat! I will look into that option

[pHaestus]

I read a post by BillA on another forum that seemed to succinctly state his principles of designing a complete cooling system:

"overspecing works with some things, not with others
ignoring cost, size, noise, . . .
hey, that won't work

do understand where one's system is 'at' (say: low/quiet, moderate, balls to the wall)
develop a 'design tree' (or 'laundry list')
rank all WCing systems parameters
then rank WCing system component parameters
then work your way through the system, piece by piece
then do it again so that all the pieces are reasonably 'matched'

I really do not want to compose a 3 page post on component interrelationships

too much rad will not hurt, but it must have low flow resistance
use a shroud with standoff
the lower the fan speed, the less noise (BUT the less output/pressure capability)
an oversize pump only adds heat (do NOT throttle the output)
lines over 1/2 in. accomplish nothing
1/2 in. lines may be difficult to clear of air with low flow pumps
NO 90^ fittings
look for a wb that is reported to do well with the pump you intend to use

fan selection is problematical, lots of choices - lots of compromises
(my personal choice would be a large 172mm low speed mains axial fan external to the case blowing through the rad into the case, but there is STILL that psu fan to listen to)"

From here (lots of bickering before that point):
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...threadid=60136

[pHaestus]

Oops forgot to mention my uh point.

A 900 GPH Little Giant pump will likely be overkill. Pick a large heatercore (1975 Caprice or 1970 Blazer w/o AC) that can mount two quiet 120mm fans (more surface area will mean you can get by with quieter fans). Consider undervolting a 172mm Comair fan (I have a 24V one I run at 12 and it is a nice choice). Lots of people love Eheims because they are quiet and reliable. I have a 1048 Eheim in one case now, and have used a 1250 in the past. I would choose an Eheim 1250 if space is not an issue. They are also a little more expensive than other Magdrives. For blocks I personally use Swiftech and Innovatek blocks but I have seen some promising numbers for the DTek TC-4 as well.

[iceman]

sweet thanks for all the info pHaestus!! I am curious if you have any experience with the MCW 462 U waterblock?? I was considering it but do not know anyone who has used it and compared it against other designs. If you have any thoughts on this please let me know and thanks again!!

nate

[pHaestus]

The -U is a good block. I suggest getting some copper pipe, cutting it to size with a hacksaw, and sticking it in the quick disconnects as a barb. That way you can use bigger tubing and keep all the advantage in higher water velocity that the -U has over the -UH.

I find the Swiftech block mounting method (screws that tighten into standoffs) to be significantly better than the "long bolts with nuts" solutions that are more common. The Innovatek mounting mechanism also works very well.

[iceman]

thanks again pHaestus, I am wondering about the -UH. It has 1/2 NPT, do you think that i would be possible to
1: tap out the holes making them threaded for 1/2 ID tubing?? ( as opposed to the already 1/2 OD)
2: since this sucker is anodized would that make it feasible to use my aluminum rad with this copper block??(again trying to keep it cheap)
Thanks in advance,
nate

wait a sec im being stupid, after carefully checking the swiftech website I see that it aysy its already threaded for 1/2 ID??? I think... but it doesnt look threaded in the pics only the adaptor is. Hmmm Any help here would be great.

[pHaestus]

With the UH Swiftech drilled out the entire area of the inlet and outlet and put large (1/2" NPT) threads in. 1/2" NPT refers to the size of the fitting, not the size of tubing used. 1/2" NPT is sufficient for pretty large barbs and hose (you can get 3/4" barbs that are 1/2" NPT and maybe 1").

The issue here is that part of the reason the MCW462-U performs well is that there is a "nozzle effect" caused by the ID of the inlet being reduced. What is meant by this? Volumetric flow rates (gallons per minute or whatever units you like) are constant throughout the loop, but at any point water velocity may be affected by surface roughness, tubing diameter, or other factors. By having a drop in diameter right at the inlet, water velocity is increased as it hits the center of the block. Water velocity is directly related to turbulence, so when the higher velocity water hits the bbaseplate then cooling is improved. So at least in theory, the MCW462-U should perform better than the -UH for a given volumetric flow rate. That is why I suggest that you just stick a piece of copper pipe into the -U as a barb; use bigger tubing than Swiftech provides to reduce overall flow resistance and keep the flow rate high so that you can get the most benefit from the "nozzle" design.

[iceman]

I never would have thought of that! Hmmm so what do you think the ideal tube size would be for that block( -U) the rad i have is 5/8 for tubing size should i use that??:shrug: Also what do you think can i use my Alu rad or should i get a copper one?? ( Does the anodization protect against galvanic corrosion??)