Intel Xeon's Question

ivan2740 · 12-12-2002, 09:27 PM

Are Xeon's multipliers unlocked? If not, why the hell are they so much more expensive!!!!

Joe · 12-12-2002, 09:30 PM

due to a far supperior core design. more cache, more buffers, and until recently, the only intel chips with Hyper threading.

Joe · 12-12-2002, 09:31 PM

Oh... and they can run SMP... which is something Intel purposely left out of the P4 core design.

jtroutma · 12-12-2002, 11:28 PM

Dont forget the extra testing that they went throught to determin reliability..........

Joe · 12-12-2002, 11:39 PM

a Xeon is to a BMW M5 what a top end P4 is to a Vette Z06. Both are fast but the M5 has a bit more power and a ton more fit and finish ( also a much more hefty price tag).

ivan2740 · 12-13-2002, 12:09 AM

I see, not worth it to me personally, but hey! lol...

Mikey Boo · 12-13-2002, 01:39 AM

i have a dual p2 450 xeon setup and its faster than my dual p3 450@504... if u can get ur hands on a cheap xeon, they make great stable file servers.

Joe · 12-13-2002, 07:39 AM

hehe Dual P4 Xeon's are in my future I can promise that.

ivan2740 · 12-13-2002, 08:26 AM

sweet=)

airspirit · 12-13-2002, 08:41 AM

What? No dual hammers?

pHaestus · 12-13-2002, 09:20 AM

Nah it's Bigben who always is waiting for the hardware that doesnt exist. Joe actually buys stuff from time to time

utabintarbo · 12-13-2002, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
Nah it's Bigben who always is waiting for the hardware that doesnt exist. Joe actually buys stuff from time to time

Joe · 12-13-2002, 11:10 AM

I dont like holding my breath for technology that may be all hype and may take years to actually get to my hands.

Xeons are here and rock

Also Dual Xeons hyperthreaded = theortetical 4 CPU's

airspirit · 12-13-2002, 11:20 AM

Hammers will be here starting in March. This is absolutely confirmed. Mass production will begin by Q3 2003. With AMD where they are at, they wouldn't delay this again for the world.

airspirit · 12-13-2002, 11:33 AM

Besides, if they delayed it any more, I'd go down there and kick some ass ... I've waited too long for these things. It's not so much the chips themselves that give me a hard on, it is the other benefits such as hypertransport, PCI-X, AGP 3.0, giganics built in, on board memory, and other goodies that make this package just killer. It also won't hurt that early estimates put these things at no more expensive than P4 chips, and that will probably only be until Q3 when mass production starts, and after that the prices should drop substantially.

Looking at LIMITED hypertransport and the benefits it gives on the NForce2 boards, I think that is going to be one of the most killer parts of this whole platform.

Hyperthreading so far appears to be more hype than anything else, and with the way the hammers at LOW speeds are benching against the Xeons, it will be interesting to see what one at FULL speed can do.

Like you, I'm trying not to expect too much, but I'm really excited about what this new platform is capable of.

pHaestus · 12-13-2002, 12:11 PM

March-April PAPER launch: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1039655680

Your comments about 3rd quarter 2003 are probably about right.

If AMD could ramp up the speeds of these chips, they would have them for sale already.

Regarding benchmarks floating around; I have seen apple benchmarks that show the G4 500 as superior to the fastest current PC CPUs. Until the chips are out there for reputable people to bench and report then it is hard to make buying decisions.

Besides, maybe I am confusing things here. When I personally say "I am getting me some of that", then I dont mean next September. I mean in the next few weeks. The exception would be if I said "I am getting me another child".

airspirit · 12-13-2002, 12:32 PM

I'm holding off for a hammer dually, expecting purchase in mid May when I'll have another grand to kick around. I figure that at that time, if the processor cost for the base models are around $200 per unit, I should be able to make an uber-machine for less than $1K. That is a big if, though, and also counts on increasing DDR production and the spring slowdown to reduce RAM spot prices dramatically, and the fact that you should be able to pick up a Radeon 9700 Pro for under $150 (not unreasonable with the shake-up coming next spring).

bigben2k · 12-13-2002, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
Nah it's Bigben who always is waiting for the hardware that doesnt exist. Joe actually buys stuff from time to time

Right on!

Joe can't be called an AMD fanboy. Personally, I'd give dual or quad Hammers a shot WAY before I forked over a huge amount of money for a dual P4 Xeon.

When I buy a house, it'll have a large central server, with different types of terminals. In fact, if I went with Xeons, I'd rent the server.

Joe · 12-13-2002, 02:41 PM

I currently run Dual Athlons, love em.. but I have seen and felt on servers the advantage of Hyperthreading.. and it rocks all. I mean getting an almost 40% increase in power is slick

Also Xeons have one advantage hammers wont have. GOOD CHIPSETS. I mean you got Serverworks chipsets that have memory bandwidth that AMD would kill for. ANd Intels new i series chipsets for Xeons are rocking it big time. Oh and there are solid drivers and NONE fo the total BS issues you get from VIA or SIS crap.

thats why I like my Dual AMD. 1 Chipset = AMD. No VIA/AMD things just one solid and stable chipset.

phreenet · 12-13-2002, 02:58 PM

Joe is right, the chipsets advailable for the Xeons are hella beefy. The new Intel E7505 chipet which supports AGP 8X, 12GB or DDR, 533 Mhz FSB and 3.0 Ghz Xeons (not currently out yet) rocks, makes one hella workstation for professionals.

BigBen, those AMD chips aren't out yet. And I wouldn't be suprised to see their prices the same or very close to the same as the current Xeon chips.

airspirit · 12-13-2002, 03:12 PM

Chipsets won't really be an issue.

The memory controller is going to be onboard, leaving just a southbridge linked via hypertransport to worry about. If current releases from NVidia are any hint of what may be to come, they'll be coming out the gate will some awesome chipsets.

Besides, they'll have had well over a year to flesh them out before release. Many manufacturers have had things ready since spring that would be parallel to the early XP chipsets. We'll be up and running from day one.

Hyperthreading will be 0wned by the bandwidth that hypertransport offers. Memory speed will be 0wned by the onboard controller. 64 bit optimization will give at least another 10% speed, and in many cases (look at UT2K3), over 25%. Independant memory allocation per CPU will also 0wn shared memory.

A dually hammer, come release time, will murder any dually Xeon, and I'd wager my next paycheck on it. There is no way Inhell can overcome the limitations of the Xeon platform to compete with what will come as a revolutionary step in server technology.

bigben2k · 12-13-2002, 03:15 PM

AMD is serious about getting its Hammer recognized on the server platform. Another first for AMD. :shrug:

We'll just have to wait and see...

phreenet · 12-13-2002, 03:46 PM

airspirt, you are quick to finialize something that no one has been able to test in all conditions. That same kind of talk was spreading around about the Itanium months before it was advailable. For all you know, it could be a compleate flop.

Joe · 12-13-2002, 04:20 PM

hehehe I have stopped believing AMD's Hype a long time ago... I will believe stuff when I see it. I HOPE the hammer will rock, but I think it will have just a few more problems than mainstream server companies will want.

Just as all AMD products have had.

The Hammer would need to offer VERY impressive marks against the Xeons to make it worth while.. I mean we are talking 30 - 50% speed increases for the same price point to make it worth the Risk hammer presents to companies.

Xeon is a WELL tested with years and years of R+D behind them and years of real world tests. They are proven, and here. The hammer will be immature for atleast 2 years after its physical release.

airspirit · 12-13-2002, 04:45 PM

I can just look at the specs and see how this is going to rock. Final judgement will come when they come out, but it doesn't take driving a particular car to know how fast it'll be, if you know what's pushing it down the road.

12-12-2002, 09:27 PM	#1
ivan2740 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 45	Intel Xeon's Question Are Xeon's multipliers unlocked? If not, why the hell are they so much more expensive!!!! __________________ http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=93263

12-12-2002, 09:30 PM	#2
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	due to a far supperior core design. more cache, more buffers, and until recently, the only intel chips with Hyper threading. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-12-2002, 09:31 PM	#3
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	Oh... and they can run SMP... which is something Intel purposely left out of the P4 core design. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-12-2002, 11:28 PM	#4
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	Dont forget the extra testing that they went throught to determin reliability.......... __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

12-12-2002, 11:39 PM	#5
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	a Xeon is to a BMW M5 what a top end P4 is to a Vette Z06. Both are fast but the M5 has a bit more power and a ton more fit and finish ( also a much more hefty price tag). __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-13-2002, 12:09 AM	#6
ivan2740 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 45	I see, not worth it to me personally, but hey! lol... __________________ http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=93263

12-13-2002, 01:39 AM	#7
Mikey Boo Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 78	i have a dual p2 450 xeon setup and its faster than my dual p3 450@504... if u can get ur hands on a cheap xeon, they make great stable file servers. __________________ Watercoolin + a leak = a wet floor

12-13-2002, 07:39 AM	#8
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	hehe Dual P4 Xeon's are in my future I can promise that. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-13-2002, 08:26 AM	#9
ivan2740 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 45	sweet=) __________________ http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=93263

12-13-2002, 08:41 AM	#10
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	What? No dual hammers? __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-13-2002, 09:20 AM	#11
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Nah it's Bigben who always is waiting for the hardware that doesnt exist. Joe actually buys stuff from time to time

12-13-2002, 11:10 AM	#13
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I dont like holding my breath for technology that may be all hype and may take years to actually get to my hands. Xeons are here and rock Also Dual Xeons hyperthreaded = theortetical 4 CPU's __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-13-2002, 11:20 AM	#14
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Hammers will be here starting in March. This is absolutely confirmed. Mass production will begin by Q3 2003. With AMD where they are at, they wouldn't delay this again for the world. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-13-2002, 11:33 AM	#15
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Besides, if they delayed it any more, I'd go down there and kick some ass ... I've waited too long for these things. It's not so much the chips themselves that give me a hard on, it is the other benefits such as hypertransport, PCI-X, AGP 3.0, giganics built in, on board memory, and other goodies that make this package just killer. It also won't hurt that early estimates put these things at no more expensive than P4 chips, and that will probably only be until Q3 when mass production starts, and after that the prices should drop substantially. Looking at LIMITED hypertransport and the benefits it gives on the NForce2 boards, I think that is going to be one of the most killer parts of this whole platform. Hyperthreading so far appears to be more hype than anything else, and with the way the hammers at LOW speeds are benching against the Xeons, it will be interesting to see what one at FULL speed can do. Like you, I'm trying not to expect too much, but I'm really excited about what this new platform is capable of. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-13-2002, 12:11 PM	#16
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	March-April PAPER launch: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1039655680 Your comments about 3rd quarter 2003 are probably about right. If AMD could ramp up the speeds of these chips, they would have them for sale already. Regarding benchmarks floating around; I have seen apple benchmarks that show the G4 500 as superior to the fastest current PC CPUs. Until the chips are out there for reputable people to bench and report then it is hard to make buying decisions. Besides, maybe I am confusing things here. When I personally say "I am getting me some of that", then I dont mean next September. I mean in the next few weeks. The exception would be if I said "I am getting me another child".

12-13-2002, 12:32 PM	#17
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I'm holding off for a hammer dually, expecting purchase in mid May when I'll have another grand to kick around. I figure that at that time, if the processor cost for the base models are around $200 per unit, I should be able to make an uber-machine for less than $1K. That is a big if, though, and also counts on increasing DDR production and the spring slowdown to reduce RAM spot prices dramatically, and the fact that you should be able to pick up a Radeon 9700 Pro for under $150 (not unreasonable with the shake-up coming next spring). __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-13-2002, 02:41 PM	#19
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I currently run Dual Athlons, love em.. but I have seen and felt on servers the advantage of Hyperthreading.. and it rocks all. I mean getting an almost 40% increase in power is slick Also Xeons have one advantage hammers wont have. GOOD CHIPSETS. I mean you got Serverworks chipsets that have memory bandwidth that AMD would kill for. ANd Intels new i series chipsets for Xeons are rocking it big time. Oh and there are solid drivers and NONE fo the total BS issues you get from VIA or SIS crap. thats why I like my Dual AMD. 1 Chipset = AMD. No VIA/AMD things just one solid and stable chipset. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-13-2002, 02:58 PM	#20
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	Joe is right, the chipsets advailable for the Xeons are hella beefy. The new Intel E7505 chipet which supports AGP 8X, 12GB or DDR, 533 Mhz FSB and 3.0 Ghz Xeons (not currently out yet) rocks, makes one hella workstation for professionals. BigBen, those AMD chips aren't out yet. And I wouldn't be suprised to see their prices the same or very close to the same as the current Xeon chips. __________________ Dual Pentium!!! 933@1107 Liquid Cooled.

12-13-2002, 03:12 PM	#21
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Chipsets won't really be an issue. The memory controller is going to be onboard, leaving just a southbridge linked via hypertransport to worry about. If current releases from NVidia are any hint of what may be to come, they'll be coming out the gate will some awesome chipsets. Besides, they'll have had well over a year to flesh them out before release. Many manufacturers have had things ready since spring that would be parallel to the early XP chipsets. We'll be up and running from day one. Hyperthreading will be 0wned by the bandwidth that hypertransport offers. Memory speed will be 0wned by the onboard controller. 64 bit optimization will give at least another 10% speed, and in many cases (look at UT2K3), over 25%. Independant memory allocation per CPU will also 0wn shared memory. A dually hammer, come release time, will murder any dually Xeon, and I'd wager my next paycheck on it. There is no way Inhell can overcome the limitations of the Xeon platform to compete with what will come as a revolutionary step in server technology. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-13-2002, 03:15 PM	#22
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	AMD is serious about getting its Hammer recognized on the server platform. Another first for AMD. :shrug: We'll just have to wait and see... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-13-2002, 03:46 PM	#23
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	airspirt, you are quick to finialize something that no one has been able to test in all conditions. That same kind of talk was spreading around about the Itanium months before it was advailable. For all you know, it could be a compleate flop. __________________ Dual Pentium!!! 933@1107 Liquid Cooled.

12-13-2002, 04:20 PM	#24
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	hehehe I have stopped believing AMD's Hype a long time ago... I will believe stuff when I see it. I HOPE the hammer will rock, but I think it will have just a few more problems than mainstream server companies will want. Just as all AMD products have had. The Hammer would need to offer VERY impressive marks against the Xeons to make it worth while.. I mean we are talking 30 - 50% speed increases for the same price point to make it worth the Risk hammer presents to companies. Xeon is a WELL tested with years and years of R+D behind them and years of real world tests. They are proven, and here. The hammer will be immature for atleast 2 years after its physical release. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-13-2002, 04:45 PM	#25
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I can just look at the specs and see how this is going to rock. Final judgement will come when they come out, but it doesn't take driving a particular car to know how fast it'll be, if you know what's pushing it down the road. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

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