Tests of a #rotor style block...and a question

[pHaestus]

http://www.overclockers.com/articles690/

Does very well, although may require more pump than some other designs.

And for the question: I saw a drill press in Canadian Tire ad today for $49CAD ($30 off). The specs are 8" drill press, 2.4A, 1/4hp, 5 spindle speeds, 1/2" chuck, depth stop.

Would this drill press be suitable for making these type blocks out of copper bar stock? Cause if so, I think I am going to pick one up for enlarging fittings and drilling out waterblock baseplates for thermocouples and for making the odd block or two

[BillA]

not sure what the 8" relates to ??
but I bought the absolute CHEAPEST (Chinese) drill press I could find on eBay; $29 plus shipping
- shakes like Janet Reno
and eveerything out of plumb (get a square and start checking and correcting)

but I can drill a 1/16" hole in copper 2" deep

go for it

yea, #Rotor could have had a good little business with a different approach
- and the numbers could be improved (over what was tested)

[g.l.amour]

if u have the courage to dig through this thread phaestus, u should have the answers to all your q'z + a complete worklog with all the trial and errors of me an puzzdre on our first rotor block. with some good advice of the maester himself.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=4766


and for a rotor design thread, after some brainstorming i designed something with alot of help. what was suggested in the end was not practically doable but i came close to what i think is a block that will be hard to improve when using the drill method. if u feel the urge to design, plz do also make a contribution in this thread. since the whole rotor style is open source, it would be nice to have a thread that encompasses all the good designs for that particular method.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=5114

@ BillA , we prolly have the same mark of chinese rubish drill press. the price diff between a good one will be felt in the spindle vibration. the preciseness of the depth stops (non existant on mine, if u want to be precise, measure every hole with a caliper). so a cheap press is ideal if u make 5 blox or less per year. if u do more u will want one where u can use bigger feed rates (more HP) , more precise depth stops (less time per hole because u don't need caliper). don't forget that the drilling process itself doesn't consume that much time. lapping, making the mask, punching the pilot holes, threading, those are all things that also take alot of time and precision. so go with a cheap drill, invest the saved money in the best quality tappers u can find.

[Puzzdre]

Go for it pHaestus!!!

The price is good, and BillA is right, it shakes like hell. As for the depth precision, it seems to me that I was lucky, cos' I can be sure into the depth of the hole in approx. +/- 0.5 mm, and g.l.amour reported his drill press cannot be trusted for 3 mm in depth 'precision'...

I also managed to drill almost 2" (4.5 mm) 2 mm dia holes in copper (actually, drilled a whole row of holes making the xyinn's kinda block, started another row and snapped the bit, but that was in the beginning and I was too excited and in a hurry to make the block...)

Try to fasten the drill onto the heavy and steady surface to reduce the shaking of the drill. Mine is still fine, although I used mill bits and my hands to mill some channels in blocks I made, and the ball bearings are still fine. For that price, it's better to have one and make some good stuff!

Ofcourse, post lot's of pics!

Good luck!

[BillA]

1 addl suggestion:

DO buy a drill vise, but NOT a Chinese one
spend $15 to 30 for a used 3 or 4" good one

note:
after I trued the adjustable 'table' (and ground the high-center off it !),
I bolted a 15" sq piece of 1/2" thick aluminum plate to it
much easier to use that way

[pHaestus]

OK thanks guys. I have a bit of money to purchase the drill vise too; I think I will hit Canadian Tire up this weekend. I am somewhat heartened by the fact that the drill press was $80 initially and just on big sale now rather than always having been the bottom of the line.

edit: Found a description here: http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortmen...=1043543885136

Will go get tomorrow with a drill vise

[BillA]

egg xat ly the same shakey bastard

get a rt angle square and file and shim 'till you get everything sq wrt the vertical column

enjoy

watch the motor heat, it is a LIGHT duty cycle 'design'
(Owenator burned up his motor, as did I - got sent a new one)

[pHaestus]

Ah well should have known that $49 CAD (that's uh about $31US) wouldn't buy me too much.

[Volenti]

Originally posted by pHaestus


Will go get tomorrow with a drill vise

get your self an X-Y vice, makes drilling a grid of holes a breeze, among other things.

[FRAGN'STIEN]

That looks like the same vise I use. It works good although it's a bit sloppy.

[Volenti]

Originally posted by FRAGN'STIEN
That looks like the same vise I use. It works good although it's a bit sloppy.

there are adjustments to tighten it up but the build quality it too poor to keep it tight for very long, typical cheap chinese stuff

[#Rotor]

"Owen's waterblock is better than almost all commercially available waterblocks"

see.... I told you guys, shade-tree technicians RULE

I do indeed agree with you Bill. My approach to this block-building thing was not entirely the most efficient, from a money making point of view.... but then again.... I was(still am) more interested in helping people get their flakes wet, making money from it, would have been nice and I guess can still be accomplished, but I found on too many an occasion, the money is what makes, what could have been a beautiful thing, go so bad, so fast, so often.

hehe..... kinda makes me thing of the man that got given the choice between infinite wealth and infinite wisdom... he eventually chose wisdom. upon which he immediately realized that he should have taken the money....

[g.l.amour]

well #rotor; respect doesn't pay the rent. but your approach certainly earns you alot of it. its like spreading the word...

btw, i'm glad bill got round to testing the basic block, and i'm proud to be part of a building method that can be infinitely adjusted and is among the best.

as i've said alot of times, thx #rotor. (it would be nice to get a small guestbook on your site to get some reactions)

[PetDMC]

Originally posted by pHaestus
OK thanks guys. I have a bit of money to purchase the drill vise too; I think I will hit Canadian Tire up this weekend. I am somewhat heartened by the fact that the drill press was $80 initially and just on big sale now rather than always having been the bottom of the line.

edit: Found a description here: http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortmen...=1043543885136

Will go get tomorrow with a drill vise

heres the correct link
linky

i wouldn't mind getting that drillpress, nice and cheap

[#Rotor]

Originally posted by g.l.amour
well #rotor; respect doesn't pay the rent. but your approach certainly earns you alot of it. its like spreading the word...

btw, i'm glad bill got round to testing the basic block, and i'm proud to be part of a building method that can be infinitely adjusted and is among the best.

as i've said alot of times, thx #rotor. (it would be nice to get a small guestbook on your site to get some reactions)

that's not the only thing it can't pay for...

I do not have a guestbook, but I do have this.

just promise you won't laugh at my colors

[FRAGN'STIEN]

Originally posted by g.l.amour
well #rotor; respect doesn't pay the rent. but your approach certainly earns you alot of it. its like spreading the word...

btw, i'm glad bill got round to testing the basic block, and i'm proud to be part of a building method that can be infinitely adjusted and is among the best.

as i've said alot of times, thx #rotor. (it would be nice to get a small guestbook on your site to get some reactions)

I couldn't have said it better g.l.amour. As I have said before, many times "The #Rotor style block is very efficient and effective". I have posted my temps with my block before and some may have been a little skepicle, but this style of block building is fantastic, cheap if you have the tools, and easy to build. Also as a side note. Although the narrow channels cut by the Dremel may look to be restrictive, you don't need alot of flow to get good results. I've ran this block with a 1048 as well as an Via 1300 and got the same results.

[webmedic]

yes they cool extreemly well.

[FRAGN'STIEN]

Originally posted by webmedic
yes they cool extreemly well.

Well well look who's back from the dead. Where have you been? It's good to see you back web.

[jaydee]

I got a $80 drill press for $49.00 at harbor Freight. I discovered it is identical the the Delta model and several other models. It is just relabled and painted! It is a solid one.

I must say I am very well setup for Roto style blocks. My little CNC mill is just perfect for this. REV. 3.0 will be a drilled one.

[Brians256]

Has anyone done a comparison between the #Rotor style block versus the Xjinn style block? Both use a drill press as the most complicated piece of equipment for construction. Both have high surface area, but the Xjinn blocks have much higher restriction to prevent laminar flow (with enough velocity, channels of small enough diameter are supposed to be entirely turbulent flow).

Anyone have a take on it?

[webmedic]

Not sure but I still have a #rotor block here along with all the others I collected allthough I'm not sure I would seriously look at doing a shootout with them all again. I still find some of logic fataly flawed when dealing with systems as regualar users will use it but there is not one cpu used that has built in temp senser that will get you better than +-10c. So it's really hard to judge when the cpu's simply cant be exact enough. The mobo temp sensors are even worse.

Basicly they are enough to keep you from frying your cpu but thats about it.

[#Rotor]

how many hours do you roughtly have on that CPU block...

[webmedic]

#rotor if your were refering to me. I started looking into collecting pieces for the water block shootout and my determination is that billa's testing is flawed is based on the fact that no user will ever be able to use thier water cooled sysem in the fashion billa is testing. So we will never see the results that he is getting. The information that bill and myself discovered about the inacuracies of the temp sensors built into both the cpu's and motherboard is even worse than anyblody origianly thought. I think I still have the pdf's arround if anybody wants them from both intel and amd.

However this does not invalidate his testing. It does give us a very good source of information but the results will only be true for a system running under the exact same conditions as his testing setup. Since most if not all users will not be able to maintain or setup this type of test equipment it becomes a moot point in regular systems. There will be allot of variables which will not be the same as what billa is testing with.

Unless he can test in the varied ways in which the watercooled systems will be used his results simple will but insufficient for proper analysis. This understanding basicly drove me from water cooling for a while and I simply have not been doing any since then.

So my blocks have not had much use for a while.

I'm currently working on a referigerated system that should be able to regualte temps within the system but even with this setup how many users do you know with a water fountain in thier system?

[BillA]

Originally posted by webmedic
. . . . . the results will only be true for a system running under the exact same conditions as his testing setup. Since most if not all users will not be able to maintain or setup this type of test equipment it becomes a moot point in regular systems. There will be allot of variables which will not be the same as what billa is testing with.

Unless he can test in the varied ways in which the watercooled systems will be used his results simple will but insufficient for proper analysis.
. . . . .

any "C/W" is specific to that system only
care to be more specific ?

"insufficient for proper analysis"

1) specifically what is insufficient ?

2) what constitutes "proper analysis" ?

[winewood]

webmedic
A post or two proving your research to disprove BillA conclusion is constructive critisim. Saying his results are thrown out because you find a variable in your tests isn't exactly conclusive that you can dismiss the most qualitative rational availiable.
I personally find his results most helpful in planning out my next setup and equipment. More so than most disposable opinions that only rely on what they have been told to think, or have been paid to promote. I can easily dismiss 90% of the posters opinions on blocks, but BillA's data can't be dismissed as easily. I think it would be most irresponsible to not answer BillA's questions. If you can't answer them, then you can't dismiss them so quickly, neither should anyone else.