Advice sought- cheap block making setup

Axle · 03-29-2003, 01:26 PM

I have $75 in Home Depot gift certs from a 'Rewards' program with my dad's coprerate card, which pretty much covers a nice drill press (yay! cost so far- $0). However, I'm painfully aware a drill press is not ALL you need to make a block.

I plan on getting my copper off ebay, and what I'm looking at comes 2" thick. How could I cut this down to a good size? I have a jig saw, dremel, hand drill, and even an old hack saw, but will these really do? I'd like a pretty nice straight corner. I suppose I can rig something up with the hacksaw, but..geeeze, that's a lot of hacking. I see some of the circ saws at Walmart for $50, useful?

Now, tapping(?) the barb. I don't get it. Barbs I get get from HD also, but how exactly do I get them into the block? I watched a video of someone showing how to do this a while back, but I sure don't have the piece of equipment. Oh, and does anyone know how much it costs?

A possible mill setup. I've seen someone here but a 3dish vice of some sort, and some mill bits & use it as such. Any idea as to how much the cost of this might be?

I'm looking cheap, but quality. I'd rather get one thing of quality and wait a while then get everything cheap at once. I'm looking at this drill at Home Depot- good? (I know Roybl is a reasonably quality name, but how about the RPMs, etc?)

Any advice at all would be greatly apprechiated!! Thank you much,
lex

LiquidRulez · 03-29-2003, 09:20 PM

Axle,
A drill press is a good starting point and some really great performing blocks have been made using one on this forum.

I would suggest that , if you want to do it cheap, versus getting the proper equipement(which can be expensive),is to buy a circular saw(check out local pawn shops to get one cheap) and a metal cutting blade(some sort of abrasive material it made of....not sure of the type).
These blades can be purchased at Walmart for around 5 bucks.

Your going to need some sort of bench mounted vise to hold the copper in to cut it.
Depending on how wide the 2" thick copper bar is, you may have slice it in two passes(one cut the length on top....flip metal...cut the other side through to previos cut) BE CAREFUL AS THE COPPER WILL GET EXTREMELY HOT AND WILL BURN THE HELL OUT OF YOU IF YOU BARELY TOUCH IT! LEATHER GLOVES ARE A MUST.
I personally would either buy a cheap 4x6 metal cutting bandsaw to cut it with or go to a local metalshop and get then to cut it to your specific needs, as doing it with an unmounted saw is very dangerous and it only takes one slip and you could lose a finger or two.

As far as a 2 way cross slide to mount on your drill press to cut channels into the block when mounted.......you can get them relitively cheap(around $40-80 depending on where you shop)Ebay is a good place to look for one at a decent price.

End mill bits, depending on what type can be expensive.Its really hard to say how much this will cost initially, to get started.
But I personally buy only solid carbide end mills, even though more expensive than say a high speed steel(HSS) one, because they last about 3x longer.
Keep in mind that carbide bits do not flex as ,for instance HSS and if not careful, can be snapped of quite easily. So when you purchase some, get some extras in case.
You want to look for end mills with a higher than average helix(30 degree) around 45 degree helix....and generally its better to use a 2 flute cutter for copper as it tends to get gummy and stick to the cutter easily.

You want to look for end mills designed to cut non ferrous metals(alum, copper ect.)as they will have a greater chip clearance in the cut, and a proper helix for copper and the like.

You can use standard end mills , but its really a hassle becuase they lack enough chip clearance for non ferrous, ductile metal cutting, and will "clog" up reall easy....

If you must use standard end mills........use a 2 flute to kind of accomodate the smaller helix and give you a greater chip clearance for the copper.

Check out wttool.com..(or mcmaster.com....kind of expensive there though).wttool.com has a large selection of just about everything and great prices, fast shipping(will even do COD)....

But it you really want to get a good start, Id suggest spending about $399 on a mini milling machine(homier.com) to start with and bypass the drill press.Then all you will need to get started is some end mills ,a few end mill holders(depending on the size of the end mill),a fly cutter and bits, and some metal stock and you on your way(around $70-100 for the accessories minus the metal costs)
Tooling for this type of stuff is quite expensive if you do it right.
But making a WB with a drill press is an artform in itself and takes alot of patience and practice.....a milling machine is a much better alternative as it was designed with this type of meatalwork in mind.

Well good luck whatever you decide to purchase.
And welcome to "the club"

SysCrusher · 03-30-2003, 09:44 AM

Can use a decent table saw with a a metal cutting blade to cut the copper to what you need. I use a nice 10" inch table saw to do my work. I spent alot of money on mine but it can be done with a cheap table saw. It doubles as a disk sander too!

Axle · 03-31-2003, 07:08 PM

I'll take a look at both a bandsaw & circ saw.. pawn shop is a fantastic idea. I'm not sure about a table saw, but I'll look for one of those too.

And YES do I know cu gets hot. When I soldered together my rad I was handleing a piece of tubing with thick leather gloves; it felt cool so I touched it to my wrist to check.. I still have the scar :shrug: Thanks for the great info on milling bits & axis vice.. I saw one in the size you suggested on ebay for $45; not too bad I don't think.

I'd love a mill, but just about all I have is a 100 bucks and $75 in HD gift certs

I'd like to get a drill press anyway, making blocks is just another reason on the list. I have a machine shop (actually it's a machining school) about 5 minutes from my house, I've been thinking of maybe taking a class there over the summer. I've seen the shop before; full CNC as well as about 50 mills

No objections to the Roybl drill press? I'll be picking it up this weekend then..

Thanks y'all

max · 03-31-2003, 07:34 PM

That drill press is more or lesss the same as mine (i have a ryobi too) and its all good, i made all my block with it. Actually I like using my drill press so much and i think the blocks look cooler that i wouldn't have a mill

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
BE CAREFUL AS THE COPPER WILL GET EXTREMELY HOT AND WILL BURN THE HELL OUT OF YOU IF YOU BARELY TOUCH IT! LEATHER GLOVES ARE A MUST.
...
You want to look for end mills designed to cut non ferrous metals(alum, copper ect.)as they will have a greater chip clearance in the cut, and a proper helix for copper and the like. ... If you must use standard end mills........use a 2 flute to kind of accomodate the smaller helix and give you a greater chip clearance for the copper.
...
Check out wttool.com

That's top notch advice, LR.

When you see the copper start to get a shade darker, that's the first hint you get that it's too hot to touch.

If you want to get into endmills, check out my Radius thread: I just found a cheap supplier of top notch solid carbide endmills, with cheap prices to boot! They might have some nice drill bits too.

Volenti · 04-01-2003, 02:16 AM

I've just recently bought my self a band saw, and I'm very impressed at how it can carve through copper (among other things), should have got one a long time ago.

pokpok · 04-01-2003, 03:49 PM

i read somewhere here..or on ocforums that end mills arent recomended for drillpress use because drill press motors arent meant to cut sideways.

and for the 2 way cross slide, those are those things that attach to the "X" cuts on the drill press platform right?

BTW 2 way means it can move sideways and forwards?

LiquidRulez · 04-01-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pokpok
i read somewhere here..or on ocforums that end mills arent recomended for drillpress use because drill press motors arent meant to cut sideways.

and for the 2 way cross slide, those are those things that attach to the "X" cuts on the drill press platform right?

BTW 2 way means it can move sideways and forwards?

Well, before I got a CNC mill, I used end mills in my cheapo 9" drill press and cut about 25 blocks(most of em scraped though)and I had no problems with using them.
I use it daily to drill and its still running as good as when I bought it.

Yes, a 2 way cross slide mounts in the base

pokpok · 04-01-2003, 05:20 PM

im looking at some endmill website right now. for copper does it matter if it get square or ball ends?

to make sideways with end mill all i need to do is drill it down to a certian depth then wind the vise in whatever direction it needs to be in, and HOPEFULLY this will make a nice cut. is this bascically what i would need to do?

winewood · 04-01-2003, 07:08 PM

Frankly.. if I had a machine shop near, I would take a class.. use and abuse all the equipment, then make my decision. This way you know the benifits of both or all of them, then purchase what is the best. Just an idea. Buyers remorse sets in quick.

LiquidRulez · 04-01-2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pokpok
im looking at some endmill website right now. for copper does it matter if it get square or ball ends?

to make sideways with end mill all i need to do is drill it down to a certian depth then wind the vise in whatever direction it needs to be in, and HOPEFULLY this will make a nice cut. is this bascically what i would need to do?

It depends on how you want the bottom of the cuts to be......
square if you want them flat...
ball if you want it round.

make sure you get center cutting end mills if you plan to do any plunge cutting into the stock("all i need to do is drill it down to a certian depth then............)
If you dont, you wont "drill" down into anything.

The quality of the cut will depend on what you are using to "wind the vise" with.
2 way tables arent exactly precision instruments, but they will get the job done basically.

Id be willing to bet that you will decide to get a mill versus a drill press no matter how many classes you take..........theres just NO comparision between the two!

My advice.......save yourself the time and a few bucks and just get a mill to begin with.
If you decide you dont want to make blocks anymore.......thats what Ebay is for, and you wont lose much money.......
I know a few guys on here that would buy a used mini mill, if they had the chance.
Shouldnt be too hard.

pokpok · 04-01-2003, 09:02 PM

didnt meant to hijack your thread axle

darn, i already have a 2 year old drill press. one of my dad's friends works at a machine shop, i guess i should find some time to use those mills.

if i do buy an endmill to be used on a drill press, would i need any collets for it to fit into the chuck? and whats the reccomended RPM for milling thru the copper?

Axle · 04-01-2003, 09:39 PM

no, no problem

Pretty low, I'd guess (the RPM)..as afore mentiones, copper gets hot.

I know, I know, but I seriously don't have the money for a mill at the moment. When I move to my own place, and I have some land I may make that investment, but for the moment I need a drill press for some wood work I've been planning, and just want to make sure it can be used for other purposes. Plus it's not actually costing me anything... always good

03-29-2003, 01:26 PM	#1
Axle Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Wind Gap, PA Posts: 112	Advice sought- cheap block making setup I have $75 in Home Depot gift certs from a 'Rewards' program with my dad's coprerate card, which pretty much covers a nice drill press (yay! cost so far- $0). However, I'm painfully aware a drill press is not ALL you need to make a block. I plan on getting my copper off ebay, and what I'm looking at comes 2" thick. How could I cut this down to a good size? I have a jig saw, dremel, hand drill, and even an old hack saw, but will these really do? I'd like a pretty nice straight corner. I suppose I can rig something up with the hacksaw, but..geeeze, that's a lot of hacking. I see some of the circ saws at Walmart for $50, useful? Now, tapping(?) the barb. I don't get it. Barbs I get get from HD also, but how exactly do I get them into the block? I watched a video of someone showing how to do this a while back, but I sure don't have the piece of equipment. Oh, and does anyone know how much it costs? A possible mill setup. I've seen someone here but a 3dish vice of some sort, and some mill bits & use it as such. Any idea as to how much the cost of this might be? I'm looking cheap, but quality. I'd rather get one thing of quality and wait a while then get everything cheap at once. I'm looking at this drill at Home Depot- good? (I know Roybl is a reasonably quality name, but how about the RPMs, etc?) Any advice at all would be greatly apprechiated!! Thank you much, lex __________________ "Once we've got those bugs flattened out, we'll be running on flat bugs"

03-29-2003, 09:20 PM	#2
LiquidRulez Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In Hell Posts: 322	Axle, A drill press is a good starting point and some really great performing blocks have been made using one on this forum. I would suggest that , if you want to do it cheap, versus getting the proper equipement(which can be expensive),is to buy a circular saw(check out local pawn shops to get one cheap) and a metal cutting blade(some sort of abrasive material it made of....not sure of the type). These blades can be purchased at Walmart for around 5 bucks. Your going to need some sort of bench mounted vise to hold the copper in to cut it. Depending on how wide the 2" thick copper bar is, you may have slice it in two passes(one cut the length on top....flip metal...cut the other side through to previos cut) BE CAREFUL AS THE COPPER WILL GET EXTREMELY HOT AND WILL BURN THE HELL OUT OF YOU IF YOU BARELY TOUCH IT! LEATHER GLOVES ARE A MUST. I personally would either buy a cheap 4x6 metal cutting bandsaw to cut it with or go to a local metalshop and get then to cut it to your specific needs, as doing it with an unmounted saw is very dangerous and it only takes one slip and you could lose a finger or two. As far as a 2 way cross slide to mount on your drill press to cut channels into the block when mounted.......you can get them relitively cheap(around $40-80 depending on where you shop)Ebay is a good place to look for one at a decent price. End mill bits, depending on what type can be expensive.Its really hard to say how much this will cost initially, to get started. But I personally buy only solid carbide end mills, even though more expensive than say a high speed steel(HSS) one, because they last about 3x longer. Keep in mind that carbide bits do not flex as ,for instance HSS and if not careful, can be snapped of quite easily. So when you purchase some, get some extras in case. You want to look for end mills with a higher than average helix(30 degree) around 45 degree helix....and generally its better to use a 2 flute cutter for copper as it tends to get gummy and stick to the cutter easily. You want to look for end mills designed to cut non ferrous metals(alum, copper ect.)as they will have a greater chip clearance in the cut, and a proper helix for copper and the like. You can use standard end mills , but its really a hassle becuase they lack enough chip clearance for non ferrous, ductile metal cutting, and will "clog" up reall easy.... If you must use standard end mills........use a 2 flute to kind of accomodate the smaller helix and give you a greater chip clearance for the copper. Check out wttool.com..(or mcmaster.com....kind of expensive there though).wttool.com has a large selection of just about everything and great prices, fast shipping(will even do COD).... But it you really want to get a good start, Id suggest spending about $399 on a mini milling machine(homier.com) to start with and bypass the drill press.Then all you will need to get started is some end mills ,a few end mill holders(depending on the size of the end mill),a fly cutter and bits, and some metal stock and you on your way(around $70-100 for the accessories minus the metal costs) Tooling for this type of stuff is quite expensive if you do it right. But making a WB with a drill press is an artform in itself and takes alot of patience and practice.....a milling machine is a much better alternative as it was designed with this type of meatalwork in mind. Well good luck whatever you decide to purchase. And welcome to "the club" Last edited by LiquidRulez; 03-29-2003 at 09:31 PM.

03-31-2003, 07:08 PM	#4
Axle Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Wind Gap, PA Posts: 112	I'll take a look at both a bandsaw & circ saw.. pawn shop is a fantastic idea. I'm not sure about a table saw, but I'll look for one of those too. And YES do I know cu gets hot. When I soldered together my rad I was handleing a piece of tubing with thick leather gloves; it felt cool so I touched it to my wrist to check.. I still have the scar :shrug: Thanks for the great info on milling bits & axis vice.. I saw one in the size you suggested on ebay for $45; not too bad I don't think. I'd love a mill, but just about all I have is a 100 bucks and $75 in HD gift certs I'd like to get a drill press anyway, making blocks is just another reason on the list. I have a machine shop (actually it's a machining school) about 5 minutes from my house, I've been thinking of maybe taking a class there over the summer. I've seen the shop before; full CNC as well as about 50 mills No objections to the Roybl drill press? I'll be picking it up this weekend then.. Thanks y'all __________________ "Once we've got those bugs flattened out, we'll be running on flat bugs"

03-31-2003, 07:34 PM	#5
max Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Zealand Posts: 64	That drill press is more or lesss the same as mine (i have a ryobi too) and its all good, i made all my block with it. Actually I like using my drill press so much and i think the blocks look cooler that i wouldn't have a mill __________________ My Watercooled A t h l o n X P My homepage My Trademe Auctions

04-01-2003, 02:16 AM	#7
Volenti Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: in a nice cool spot Posts: 427	I've just recently bought my self a band saw, and I'm very impressed at how it can carve through copper (among other things), should have got one a long time ago. __________________ feel free to icq/msn me, I'm always willing to toss around ideas.

03-30-2003, 09:44 AM	#3
SysCrusher Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 256	Can use a decent table saw with a a metal cutting blade to cut the copper to what you need. I use a nice 10" inch table saw to do my work. I spent alot of money on mine but it can be done with a cheap table saw. It doubles as a disk sander too!

04-01-2003, 03:49 PM	#8
pokpok Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: rsm,ca Posts: 87	i read somewhere here..or on ocforums that end mills arent recomended for drillpress use because drill press motors arent meant to cut sideways. and for the 2 way cross slide, those are those things that attach to the "X" cuts on the drill press platform right? BTW 2 way means it can move sideways and forwards? Last edited by pokpok; 04-01-2003 at 03:54 PM.

04-01-2003, 05:20 PM	#10
pokpok Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: rsm,ca Posts: 87	im looking at some endmill website right now. for copper does it matter if it get square or ball ends? to make sideways with end mill all i need to do is drill it down to a certian depth then wind the vise in whatever direction it needs to be in, and HOPEFULLY this will make a nice cut. is this bascically what i would need to do?

04-01-2003, 07:08 PM	#11
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	Frankly.. if I had a machine shop near, I would take a class.. use and abuse all the equipment, then make my decision. This way you know the benifits of both or all of them, then purchase what is the best. Just an idea. Buyers remorse sets in quick. __________________ -winewood-

04-01-2003, 09:02 PM	#13
pokpok Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: rsm,ca Posts: 87	didnt meant to hijack your thread axle darn, i already have a 2 year old drill press. one of my dad's friends works at a machine shop, i guess i should find some time to use those mills. if i do buy an endmill to be used on a drill press, would i need any collets for it to fit into the chuck? and whats the reccomended RPM for milling thru the copper?

04-01-2003, 09:39 PM	#14
Axle Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Wind Gap, PA Posts: 112	no, no problem Pretty low, I'd guess (the RPM)..as afore mentiones, copper gets hot. I know, I know, but I seriously don't have the money for a mill at the moment. When I move to my own place, and I have some land I may make that investment, but for the moment I need a drill press for some wood work I've been planning, and just want to make sure it can be used for other purposes. Plus it's not actually costing me anything... always good __________________ "Once we've got those bugs flattened out, we'll be running on flat bugs"

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)