New design, incorporating many ideas.

[GTA]

New, but also not so new idea, takes elements from Hoot's pinfin, #rotors drilled blocks, Cathars nozzle idea, Everyone looking at spraying water directly into small indentations ( BB2K and Jaydee I think ) and a load of others.

I thought of basically combining, the drilled out bumps, a multiple jet nozzle, and a modified heatsink.

I can't render anything properly, so a few words should hopefully explain it.

Start with a 1U copper HS, 60x60mm, 5mm thick base, pins cut down to 5mm high. Pins are flat topped, circular, and 2mm in diameter and 2mm apart.

I propose drilling 3mm deep holes in the gaps between the pins. The inlet would go onto a 50x50mm plate that sits over the centre of the HS. This plate would be made with holes in it to create a shower head kind of effect, with the holes from the shower head positioned directly above the holes drilled in the base.

this might give you some sort of idea what i'm talking about



The water flows down into the holes, out from underneth the shower plate, and up over the outside of the shower plate, and to the outlet mounted on top of the block.

I suck at drawing, and I might not have explained it right, but I hope you get the idea.

Any suggestions or comments?

My concerns so far are that the area being sprayed is probably too big. I could probably get away with spraying about a 30x30 area around the core, and removing the pins outside of this area. Also, not drilling the holes in the area outside the 30x30 section.

[bikr]

is the top exit block going to be offset like that?? the only problem i see is that the shower effect will be almost useless once the block is full of water , maybe i'm wrong.. and the jet stream will help , but it seems as if it'd restrict more than it helps. --Josh

[GTA]

No, in reality, the exit will be directly behind the inlet, I just drew it like that to show the concept in general.

I think that if the distance from the nozzle to the holes is short enough, even when the block is full, I'll still get high velocity water hitting the bases of those holes.

The drawing is not to any kind of scale, the distance from the nozzles to the holes will be 5mm or less, and the holes are only 3mm deep.

[Cathar]

This is a copy of the design plans that I submitted to the machinists yesterday:

http://www.employees.org/~slf/drillb1.gif

[Skulemate]

Looks interesting... too bad the dimensions were all fuzzy.

[bikr]

they were perfectly visible to me.. --Josh

[Skulemate]

Foiled by IE and it's stupid resizing? Where's the sheepish emoticon when you need it, eh?

[Bundles]

Looks and sounds damn good to me so far m8, You might be rite about removing the outer pins though, they will not do much as most of the heat will be around the centre of the block.

[Blackeagle]

A interesting variation there Cathar. Be interesting to see how it compares to the WW. Will need to be mighty good to best that.

Best of luck with it.

[theetruscan]

Originally posted by Cathar
This is a copy of the design plans that I submitted to the machinists yesterday:

http://www.employees.org/~slf/drillb1.gif

I know this is threadjacking, but . . .
what does the top to go with that block look like Cathar?

[LiquidRulez]

Damn..........Just when I think Ive come up with something original.......Cathar pops in and ruins it!

Ive been workin on a design just like that for months!

[GTA]

Any comments on my block as opposed to Cathars?

Don't mean to sound harsh, but they are slightly different, and was hoping for some comments on how to improve my design.

[max]

well i basically just made this here
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...6&pagenumber=2

near the end.

Its hard to see whats inside there but it looks like the attached pic.
In my test it didn't perform better than my other blocks but no worse, maybe I have hit a wall?

[Volenti]

Originally posted by max
well i basically just made this here
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...6&pagenumber=2

near the end.

Its hard to see whats inside there but it looks like the attached pic.
In my test it didn't perform better than my other blocks but no worse, maybe I have hit a wall?

you had no jet effect happening, hence the "average" performance.

advice for GTA;

focus on an even smaller area above the core, 20mmx20mm max, drill the holes to at least 1mm off the bottom of the BP, use jet holes 1.5mm to 2mm in dia, remove any pins in the flow path that aren't in the designated jet area.

[GTA]

20mmx20mm? okay, sounds reasonable, that should be about 20-25 pins and about 5-9 holes at a guess.

Then I remove all other pins? Again, sounds reasonable, if all the heat can be removed in this small area and will not really spread out any further, the extra pins will just restrict flow.

I was probably going to use a 2mm or 3mm drill bit to make the holes in the base ( I agree to within 1mm of the bottom of the BP sounds perfect ), but then using maybe 1mm or 1.5mm holes for the jets.

[EDIT] looking at Cathars new design above, I see that he's going for jets smaller than the holes. Any scientific reason for this? My knowledge of fluid physics is poor at best, I just thought that with the jets smaller than the holes, hopefully the water would go in to the lowest point ( obviously the drill I will be using will create a cone shape ) and then flow back up the holes round the outside of the jet of water. Is this thinking accurate?[/EDIT]

I figure that most of the performance for this block will be created by a efficient implementation of the jets and the holes.

Why do you say 1.5-2mm Volenti? I would have thought that smaller would be better, up to a point obviously.

[Volenti]

Originally posted by GTA


[EDIT] looking at Cathars new design above, I see that he's going for jets smaller than the holes. Any scientific reason for this? My knowledge of fluid physics is poor at best, I just thought that with the jets smaller than the holes, hopefully the water would go in to the lowest point ( obviously the drill I will be using will create a cone shape ) and then flow back up the holes round the outside of the jet of water. Is this thinking accurate?[/EDIT]

Yea that's pretty much it, there's a balance needed between hole depth, hole dia, jet size and jet volecity.

I figure that most of the performance for this block will be created by a efficient implementation of the jets and the holes.

exactly

Why do you say 1.5-2mm Volenti? I would have thought that smaller would be better, up to a point obviously.

2mm jets are a good compromise dia for typical pond style pumps (even then with 9x 2mm holes the flow rate is small percentage of the free flow) , 1.5 and 1 are better suited to high pressure iwaki style pumps, I use 1.5mm jet's with my iwaki MD-20RZ

[GTA]

Thats a tricky one then......

I'm building this block to a) see if I can make the design work and b) as a favour to a friend, who is going to keep the block afterwards

Personally, I use a 2800 l/h 3.4 metre custom-modified Eheim 1260 ( 1060 ) but I think that the block will mostly be used on something a lot smaller, a 1048 ( 600 l/h ).

I'll do this one on 2mm holes as you suggest, and then knock up a 1mm version for myself if the design works out well.

Cheers Volenti, any other suggestions? I've got a week off work starting Monday, just to relax and recharge the old batteries, so I'll probably be able to get it made by Thursday.

As luck would have it, I've even got a WW here to test it against, and a Cyclone5.

Not gonna beat Mr Cathar, but at least i'll know how far off I am.

[LiquidRulez]

Originally posted by GTA
Any comments on my block as opposed to Cathars?

Don't mean to sound harsh, but they are slightly different, and was hoping for some comments on how to improve my design.

Could you post a sketch of a top view so I could get a better idea of what you are proposing, so I can make a comment?

Because Im the type of person who understands certain details better when I see it, as apposed to a description of them.

OH and BTW, I didnt mean to hijack your post......Sorry!

[jaydee]

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Damn..........Just when I think Ive come up with something original.......Cathar pops in and ruins it!

Ive been workin on a design just like that for months!

Same here.

Well this might be REV. 3.0 aswell.

Base



http://www.customcooledpc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13

[jaydee]

And you already know my input about your idea GTA from my forum.

[hara]

What is the difference in BSP threading? How can it be done?

[Cathar]

Originally posted by GTA
looking at Cathars new design above, I see that he's going for jets smaller than the holes. Any scientific reason for this? My knowledge of fluid physics is poor at best, I just thought that with the jets smaller than the holes, hopefully the water would go in to the lowest point ( obviously the drill I will be using will create a cone shape ) and then flow back up the holes round the outside of the jet of water. Is this thinking accurate

My thoughts on the design measurements were these:

Drilled hole area is enough to cover the CPU die itself plus an extra "ring" of holes around the outside to draw away laterally radiated heat.

I figured that the jet hole should be half the diameter of the drill hole. This allows the jet to "punch through" straight to the bottom of the drill hole while providing enough of a gap between the incoming jet and the water rushing up the walls of the drill holes trying to get out, such that the opposing directions of flow don't clash. I wanted the ability of the jets to reach the bottom to be hindered as little as possible.

The 7 x 9 grid of 1/32" holes provides 31mm^2 of total orifice area. By comparison the White Water provides ~27mm^2. Now the pressure drop due to the smaller holes will be higher, but I was aiming the pressure-drop to be useful for even moderate pumps. More powerful pumps like the Iwaki's will just produce a greater jet nozzle velocity.

[Cathar]

Originally posted by hara
What is the difference in BSP threading? How can it be done?

Slightly different thread pitch to NPT. It's just the standard that Commonwealth nations use so its use reflects the common standard prevalent in the country in which fittings need to be obtained.

[GTA]

I'm working on a full draw up of the design, and LiquidRules, don't worry about it, I'm glad that cathar and his design showed up and was commented on. There is a huge amount of similarity between the designs. Helped me a lot.

Cathar : I'm glad that we see things the same way on the nozzle holes to drilled base holes concept, eg. narrower jets than holes, We can both post the results of what happens.

I think that this design is probably more pump dependant than the WW.

In a different thread, I asked what differences could be made to the WW given a very powerfull ( 20 PSI+ ) pump, and you mentioned, amoung other things, a more restrictive nozzle, and having lower fins, with less of a gap between them.

You mentioned a gap between fins of 0.2mm I seem to remember ( feel free to correct me on this ).

At the time I thought " Thats simply not going to be possible to machine!" I don't know if that thought is accurate or not, as I don't know much about industrial milling technology. But still, I feel it would be a major challenge to produce channels that thin.

Looking at the design in Jaydee's post, with the 15 dimples, I feel that this design method would be easier to adapt to suit very powerfull pumps. I base this on the fact that its a lot easier to drill smaller holes than it is to mill narrower channels.

My thought is that an adaption of this design for very powerfull pumps would be for example 1mm holes, very very close together at say 2mm deep, and 0.25mm jets. Huge water velocity into the holes, and a HUGE amount of turbulence circulating over what is essentially a very thin base.

What are your thoughts on this? I'm still toying with the idea of a huge pump, 30 PSI or more, just to test, as I have found a tool hire shop that will hire out for £20 per day a four stage electrical pump that produces a 50 metre head.

Obviously noisy as hell, and enormous, but It would be nice to see what sort of effect power like that would have on a design.

[Volenti]

In Big ben's thread I posted results of a quick block following the principles discussed in this thread, the performance was excellent, I'm still using it in my machine.