Okay this is it, no really, stop laughing

psychofunk · 02-25-2003, 11:28 PM

Alright, this is it the final, final setup plan, I think?

. Here goes, everything is 1/2" id except for the waterblock which is 1/2" od and the pump inlet is directly connected (no barb) to the res for less restriction. Rad also has 1/2" id barbs. Total hose length is ~31".

My main concern is the res, I wanted it to remain the highest point in the system and I thought that it would look cool so I have a tube connected to the res to make it a box/tube res thigamajiggy duhickey. Is it too big? Does something look wrong? Should it be air tight or not? If it has a flow valve is it air tight?

psychofunk · 02-25-2003, 11:36 PM

Here is a ruff draft of the res

Mark Larson · 02-25-2003, 11:46 PM

Wouldn't you be better off with a single bigger fan instead of two smaller fans on the other side of the rad?

Also, does anyone know how well the TMD's perform wrt static pressure? I kinda thought they didn't perform all that well...

Brad · 02-26-2003, 12:34 AM

I can't see anything wrong with that at all, but I'm not sure why you've got 2x 70mm fans at the front of the rad, then a 120mm on the back of the rad.

psychofunk · 02-26-2003, 12:35 AM

Actually those tmd's are an after thought. I don't really have any room for the second 120mm & shroud so I was thinking that I would cut out the front plastic bezel of my chenming and flush mount 2 fans and cover them with speaker cloth (actually the whole length of vents will be covered with speaker cloth, to act as a filter and look good while doing it).

I can fit 2 fan as large as 92mm in that space, the only reason I thought about the TMD's is that they are thinner than normal fans and that would give me approx 1" to help kill some of the noise generated when a fan is too close to the rad. I figured that some air was better than none.

Any advice is welcome, I know very little about water cooling as I come from the school of "You want me to put water in what? Are you crazy? I'll probably be killed!". So as you can tell this is a big deal for me but the quest for quiet has brought me here. Quiet and OC with air are 2 words you never hear together.

gmat · 02-26-2003, 03:22 AM

Quiet???? I'm counting 8 fans in your setup... plus the NB and GPU fans that's a whooping 10 fans.

If you want quiet:
* replace those case fans by a single low flow 120mm
* replace this PSU by a single fan model (Zalman, Seasonic, QT tech...) and mod it with a Papst
* forget the twin small input fans
* forget the HDD bay input fan - put a HDD cooler (such as the Antec one) around your hot HDs, but without the fans. It's usually enough.
Your fan count will drop to 3 + NB and GPU which you'll watercool when time comes.
Don't worry about inside case temps. Now that you're watercooled they're not critical.

Mark Larson · 02-26-2003, 03:53 AM

A quest for quiet is usually not answered by watercooling - after all, instead of a fan on your heatsink, you now have three on your radiator.
If you really want quiet i'd suggest replacing the hard drives with Barracuda IV or V's, putting a Panaflo L1A on an SLK-800, and visiting www.silentpcreview.com .

gmat · 02-26-2003, 05:09 AM

Mark, i've got a setup that's *very* silent, mainly thanks to watercooling. My setup has only 2 (two) fans, both Papst N/2GL. One is in the PSU the other one is on the rad. The rad cools down the CPU, the GPU and the chipset, with water.
Also, take a look at BladeRunner's config (on his site zerofanzone.co.uk or in these forums), by being watercooled he runs with zero fan. Check posts by Gerwin and Axle as well as they have silent watercooled systems.
So yes, watercooling is a good answer for silence.

psychofunk · 02-26-2003, 02:26 PM

I thought I needed to have the case fans (they were all going to be papst or panaflo L1's) to keep case temps down, but if that is no longer a problem since I will be water cooling then scrap all but the rad fan, the psu fans and the hdd fan.

Btw I have a fanbus to control my fans and again fans that do stay will be papst or panaflo L1's. Oh yeah and one more thing I am not completely postal when it comes to fan noise, if I can just keep things down to less than 26db I'll be happy.

Okay I have edited my pic to reflect the changes. Do you thing I have a prize pig here, I'm not looking for first I just want to have a hi quality setup.

One final note, I OC so water is a must at this point as in my previous air dealings I was unable to maintain an acceptable temp while keeping down the noise, no matter what I did. And I tried everything, diff brand fans, larger fans, fan buses, ducts, adaptors, and I have a swifty so I know the block is not the prob.

Mark Larson · 02-26-2003, 02:36 PM

Looks good. you've got the important areas covered - HDDs and GPU.

Now all you need to do is build it.

What components you thinking of using?

psychofunk · 02-26-2003, 02:42 PM

I've already hacked up the case, now I am working on the res. I have the res plexi parts and the special glue (can't remember what it's called but it is what everyone recommends as it melts and bonds the plexi together). I am just not exactly sure what else I need to do to ensure water tight. I am going to make some more drawing tonight and post a request for help here, hopefully you guys are'nt tired of me yet, and for those of you who are:shrug: tuff shit, I'm stickin around, with all my dumb questions. Thanks for the help fellas and again any other probs please point them out. I'm ghost!

psychofunk · 02-26-2003, 03:01 PM

Oh missed the last part of your question Mark. I have the following:

Z4 Cpu block w/-1/2" fittings (for christmas I'll be getting one of those psycho cathar or morph (if he'll make one for me, pleeeeeese???, did I tell you how smart you are and how dapper you look today

) blocks.

Danner Supreme Mag Drive 3

2-261 (399069) heatercore (chevette-6x6x2 fin size) (thanks Black Eagle-I checked out like 20 diff rad that were in my spec and you suggested the cheaper of them all from the beginning, I should have listened from the beginning

)

custom res (direct connect between the res and pumps for less restriction-thanks glam

)

1/2" id tygon (thanks again Blackeagle)

Aluminun Chenming case
AMD XP1900+ (200*??? as soon as the wawa is operational)
Epox 8RDA+
(2) 256mb corsair pc3200c2
WD 80GB SE
Geforce Ti4200 w/128mb (310/550) (11,609 3dmarks)
various drives, 2 fanbuses, a UV cold cathode
with music pimping through a set Logitech Z-560's.

psychofunk · 02-26-2003, 03:04 PM

Just one more thing, thanks to all of you guys who take the time to help me out I really appreciate it, even if it's just to say "wtf is that?"

Blackeagle · 02-26-2003, 04:08 PM

Aaaaahhh the force is with you man.

I love that res, it shortens your lines right down for a real tight system. How thick is the plexi where you are connecting the pump in? What do you estimate your line length will be?

Is the res to be anchored in the case? If it's fixed in case, drain?

Once again very nice.

psychofunk · 02-26-2003, 07:30 PM

I am going to use 1/4" as of now, but in this post I have realized (as well as another where I read that the res should not be air tight) that I need to do some more homework. Tonight when I get home I will draw out some more plans, make some measurements and post some questions so that I can find all the in's and outs of a res (another case of not as simple as it looks).

My preliminary plan is to have the tube with some sort of screw off top. The whole thing would be bolted down but removeable with the removal of 4 nuts and bolts. I plan to give the base a lip so that I can screw it in like a waterblock does with the 4 mobo holes.

The drain idea is genius, I had'nt given any real thought to how I would maintenace my system (other than screw off the top and dump it, but a drain would be great, I just worry about leaks). Anyways, more on this later when I have some plans drawn up.

I am estimating by running the vinyl 1/2" hose that I have in my case that I will have at most (I overestimated just in case) that I will need about 31". I may reverse the fan and shroud on the rad to move the rad about 2" closer and thus reduce my hose by about 4" (both inlet and outlet would be moved). Also If I pull the hoses as tight as possible I think I can get another 2-3" for somewhere in the neighborhood of 2' to 2-1/2' total. Again worse case scenario I am looking at 2' 7", which is alot better than my first plan of 4' and air trapped in my rad at the top of my case.

Thanks again Blackeagle and all of you guys for that matter.

#Rotor · 02-26-2003, 08:56 PM

make your fan config, such that just one fan( set of fans), those on your radiator, sucks air into the case.... all other fans in the case must be working at making as big a vacuum inside the case, as they can.... This will aid the fans on the radiator.... obviously this will need you to have your case fairly well airtight, and the Radiator to have it's lips stuck snugly onto some hole going to the outside world...

airspirit · 02-27-2003, 01:02 PM

I love that res, and you will too once it comes time to fill/bleed it. It's a bit smaller than my 4ft tower of doom, but it will still work wonders ....

Phuzun · 04-07-2003, 03:24 AM

Dont you need to put the res after the radiator? Just me but that seems the best.

dr.chaos · 04-07-2003, 05:21 AM

You told us you want to use a 120mm intake fan to lower case temp, but with the radiator in that position you are going to push into the case hot (or at least warm) air.

My suggestion is to move the radiator to a different position (toward the back of the case) so you can attach it to an exhaust fan.

Just my two cents.

saton472 · 04-07-2003, 11:01 AM

No! no! no! no! no! You do not want a vacume in your case!!!! if you have a vacume in you you will suke dust in to your case through the holes in you Cd/DVD, floppy drive, Zip drive, tape drive or what ever. that dust will get on the optical senosers and magnetic readers of the drives making the the readings from them eratic and eventualy making them unables to read period

airspirit · 04-07-2003, 05:52 PM

Negative air pressure in the case is a good thing from the cooling standpoint. Dust can be cleaned, and you should be cleaning it monthly anyway.

You'll really love that res. It is similar in concept to the water tower I'm using, and you'll find that it drains air from the lines hella-quick. Setup looks good to me.

airspirit · 04-07-2003, 05:54 PM

Do what gmat said, though. He's right on the money on the fan situation.

saton472 · 04-08-2003, 10:00 PM

id like to see you clean the lenses and reading heads of the drives

redleader · 04-09-2003, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Dont you need to put the res after the radiator? Just me but that seems the best.

Nope. That setup should work great.

02-25-2003, 11:46 PM	#3
Mark Larson Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MN Posts: 67	Wouldn't you be better off with a single bigger fan instead of two smaller fans on the other side of the rad? Also, does anyone know how well the TMD's perform wrt static pressure? I kinda thought they didn't perform all that well... __________________ AMD Fanboy.

02-26-2003, 12:34 AM	#4
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I can't see anything wrong with that at all, but I'm not sure why you've got 2x 70mm fans at the front of the rad, then a 120mm on the back of the rad. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-26-2003, 03:53 AM	#7
Mark Larson Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MN Posts: 67	A quest for quiet is usually not answered by watercooling - after all, instead of a fan on your heatsink, you now have three on your radiator. If you really want quiet i'd suggest replacing the hard drives with Barracuda IV or V's, putting a Panaflo L1A on an SLK-800, and visiting www.silentpcreview.com . __________________ AMD Fanboy.

02-26-2003, 02:26 PM	#9
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	I thought I needed to have the case fans (they were all going to be papst or panaflo L1's) to keep case temps down, but if that is no longer a problem since I will be water cooling then scrap all but the rad fan, the psu fans and the hdd fan. Btw I have a fanbus to control my fans and again fans that do stay will be papst or panaflo L1's. Oh yeah and one more thing I am not completely postal when it comes to fan noise, if I can just keep things down to less than 26db I'll be happy. Okay I have edited my pic to reflect the changes. Do you thing I have a prize pig here, I'm not looking for first I just want to have a hi quality setup. One final note, I OC so water is a must at this point as in my previous air dealings I was unable to maintain an acceptable temp while keeping down the noise, no matter what I did. And I tried everything, diff brand fans, larger fans, fan buses, ducts, adaptors, and I have a swifty so I know the block is not the prob. Last edited by psychofunk; 02-26-2003 at 02:36 PM.

02-26-2003, 02:36 PM	#10
Mark Larson Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MN Posts: 67	Looks good. you've got the important areas covered - HDDs and GPU. Now all you need to do is build it. What components you thinking of using? __________________ AMD Fanboy.

02-26-2003, 12:35 AM	#5
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	Actually those tmd's are an after thought. I don't really have any room for the second 120mm & shroud so I was thinking that I would cut out the front plastic bezel of my chenming and flush mount 2 fans and cover them with speaker cloth (actually the whole length of vents will be covered with speaker cloth, to act as a filter and look good while doing it). I can fit 2 fan as large as 92mm in that space, the only reason I thought about the TMD's is that they are thinner than normal fans and that would give me approx 1" to help kill some of the noise generated when a fan is too close to the rad. I figured that some air was better than none. Any advice is welcome, I know very little about water cooling as I come from the school of "You want me to put water in what? Are you crazy? I'll probably be killed!". So as you can tell this is a big deal for me but the quest for quiet has brought me here. Quiet and OC with air are 2 words you never hear together.

02-26-2003, 03:22 AM	#6
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Quiet???? I'm counting 8 fans in your setup... plus the NB and GPU fans that's a whooping 10 fans. If you want quiet: * replace those case fans by a single low flow 120mm * replace this PSU by a single fan model (Zalman, Seasonic, QT tech...) and mod it with a Papst * forget the twin small input fans * forget the HDD bay input fan - put a HDD cooler (such as the Antec one) around your hot HDs, but without the fans. It's usually enough. Your fan count will drop to 3 + NB and GPU which you'll watercool when time comes. Don't worry about inside case temps. Now that you're watercooled they're not critical.

02-26-2003, 05:09 AM	#8
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Mark, i've got a setup that's very silent, mainly thanks to watercooling. My setup has only 2 (two) fans, both Papst N/2GL. One is in the PSU the other one is on the rad. The rad cools down the CPU, the GPU and the chipset, with water. Also, take a look at BladeRunner's config (on his site zerofanzone.co.uk or in these forums), by being watercooled he runs with zero fan. Check posts by Gerwin and Axle as well as they have silent watercooled systems. So yes, watercooling is a good answer for silence.

02-26-2003, 02:42 PM	#11
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	I've already hacked up the case, now I am working on the res. I have the res plexi parts and the special glue (can't remember what it's called but it is what everyone recommends as it melts and bonds the plexi together). I am just not exactly sure what else I need to do to ensure water tight. I am going to make some more drawing tonight and post a request for help here, hopefully you guys are'nt tired of me yet, and for those of you who are:shrug: tuff shit, I'm stickin around, with all my dumb questions. Thanks for the help fellas and again any other probs please point them out. I'm ghost!

02-26-2003, 03:01 PM	#12
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	Oh missed the last part of your question Mark. I have the following: Z4 Cpu block w/-1/2" fittings (for christmas I'll be getting one of those psycho cathar or morph (if he'll make one for me, pleeeeeese???, did I tell you how smart you are and how dapper you look today ) blocks. Danner Supreme Mag Drive 3 2-261 (399069) heatercore (chevette-6x6x2 fin size) (thanks Black Eagle-I checked out like 20 diff rad that were in my spec and you suggested the cheaper of them all from the beginning, I should have listened from the beginning ) custom res (direct connect between the res and pumps for less restriction-thanks glam ) 1/2" id tygon (thanks again Blackeagle) Aluminun Chenming case AMD XP1900+ (200??? as soon as the wawa is operational) Epox 8RDA+ (2) 256mb corsair pc3200c2 WD 80GB SE Geforce Ti4200 w/128mb (310/550) (11,609 3dmarks) various drives, 2 fanbuses, a UV cold cathode with music pimping through a set Logitech Z-560's. Last edited by psychofunk; 02-26-2003 at 07:34 PM.*

02-26-2003, 03:04 PM	#13
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	Just one more thing, thanks to all of you guys who take the time to help me out I really appreciate it, even if it's just to say "wtf is that?"

02-26-2003, 04:08 PM	#14
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Aaaaahhh the force is with you man. I love that res, it shortens your lines right down for a real tight system. How thick is the plexi where you are connecting the pump in? What do you estimate your line length will be? Is the res to be anchored in the case? If it's fixed in case, drain? Once again very nice. Last edited by Blackeagle; 02-26-2003 at 04:20 PM.

02-26-2003, 07:30 PM	#15
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	I am going to use 1/4" as of now, but in this post I have realized (as well as another where I read that the res should not be air tight) that I need to do some more homework. Tonight when I get home I will draw out some more plans, make some measurements and post some questions so that I can find all the in's and outs of a res (another case of not as simple as it looks). My preliminary plan is to have the tube with some sort of screw off top. The whole thing would be bolted down but removeable with the removal of 4 nuts and bolts. I plan to give the base a lip so that I can screw it in like a waterblock does with the 4 mobo holes. The drain idea is genius, I had'nt given any real thought to how I would maintenace my system (other than screw off the top and dump it, but a drain would be great, I just worry about leaks). Anyways, more on this later when I have some plans drawn up. I am estimating by running the vinyl 1/2" hose that I have in my case that I will have at most (I overestimated just in case) that I will need about 31". I may reverse the fan and shroud on the rad to move the rad about 2" closer and thus reduce my hose by about 4" (both inlet and outlet would be moved). Also If I pull the hoses as tight as possible I think I can get another 2-3" for somewhere in the neighborhood of 2' to 2-1/2' total. Again worse case scenario I am looking at 2' 7", which is alot better than my first plan of 4' and air trapped in my rad at the top of my case. Thanks again Blackeagle and all of you guys for that matter.

02-26-2003, 08:56 PM	#16
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	make your fan config, such that just one fan( set of fans), those on your radiator, sucks air into the case.... all other fans in the case must be working at making as big a vacuum inside the case, as they can.... This will aid the fans on the radiator.... obviously this will need you to have your case fairly well airtight, and the Radiator to have it's lips stuck snugly onto some hole going to the outside world... __________________ There is no Spoon....

02-27-2003, 01:02 PM	#17
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I love that res, and you will too once it comes time to fill/bleed it. It's a bit smaller than my 4ft tower of doom, but it will still work wonders .... __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-07-2003, 03:24 AM	#18
Phuzun Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Fargo, ND USA Posts: 47	Dont you need to put the res after the radiator? Just me but that seems the best. __________________ 1.2ghz Tbird KT7a-Raid w/ Crystal Orb 384MB 133mhz 40x2 Maxtor HD in Raid 0 27gb IBM ata100 Ati 8500 / crystal orb, homemade ramsinks Sblive Platinum Maze 3-1 Black Ice Radiator NIC card 7 volts runnin to all fans /cept the orbs

04-07-2003, 05:21 AM	#19
dr.chaos Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Viareggio (Italy) Posts: 11	You told us you want to use a 120mm intake fan to lower case temp, but with the radiator in that position you are going to push into the case hot (or at least warm) air. My suggestion is to move the radiator to a different position (toward the back of the case) so you can attach it to an exhaust fan. Just my two cents.

04-07-2003, 11:01 AM	#20
saton472 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 57	noooo No! no! no! no! no! You do not want a vacume in your case!!!! if you have a vacume in you you will suke dust in to your case through the holes in you Cd/DVD, floppy drive, Zip drive, tape drive or what ever. that dust will get on the optical senosers and magnetic readers of the drives making the the readings from them eratic and eventualy making them unables to read period __________________ Live and learn. Then get a Dremel.

04-07-2003, 05:52 PM	#21
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Negative air pressure in the case is a good thing from the cooling standpoint. Dust can be cleaned, and you should be cleaning it monthly anyway. You'll really love that res. It is similar in concept to the water tower I'm using, and you'll find that it drains air from the lines hella-quick. Setup looks good to me. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-07-2003, 05:54 PM	#22
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Do what gmat said, though. He's right on the money on the fan situation. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-08-2003, 10:00 PM	#23
saton472 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 57	id like to see you clean the lenses and reading heads of the drives __________________ Live and learn. Then get a Dremel.

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