Will this dual WC system work ?

[jackal2513]

see diagram below:

I am going for silence. That means a 7v papst fan on my rad but i have found that doing this means my WC setup cannot sufficiently cool the cpu and gpu. So my answer to that was to fit 2 extra black ice rads and I also intend changing the original Maxexpert rad for a heater core. That combination will cool the cpu and gpu fine with all fans at 5v (x1 120mm and x2 80mm).

Problem is i have to get rid of the hard drive noise and enclose all three drives and wrap them in sound absorption material. The aqua drive units are the best i have seen and are supposed to make a drive completely silent (see: http://www.wizarddesigns.co.uk/hddcoolers.htm). So thats where the idea for a completely separate second WC system comes in.

For this I am quite settled on the airplex rad 'cos ive heard good things baout it, its pretty cheap and look fantastic (see http://www.wizarddesigns.co.uk/radiators.htm). Only problem is i can only mount it in the roof of the Lain Li 75 and doing this i'm unsure as to how to install its x2 120mm fans and whether they will get the rad cool enough.

If they are pushing air into the case then not only are they pushing in hotter air (from between the top of the case and my desk) but also there will be an inbalance with 5 slow fans intaking and only 1 exhaust (the psu will be fanless). Im not really sure of the consequences of this but i remember reading somewhere that it was better to have more exhaust than intake.

Thing is if the airplex fans are sucking air out of the case (one owner of a similar setup i spoke to said this works for him) then surely they are relying on the case air to be pretty cool ? I guess if i WC the NB and put direct that air from teh heatercore over the Moboard mosfets then theres no reason why the air won't be cool (but the fanless PSU is a worry here). Looking at the diagram maybe i should shift the airplex rad all teh way to the right and then put a wall between it and the psu. That way no heat from the psu will get near the rad

The other thing that worries me is the placement of the two Eheim pumps, the only way i can have 2 of them in there is for them both to be on the floor as per the diagram. Trouble is the 2nd system, the pump will have to shunt water all teh way up to teh height of the case ... maybe i should opt for a 1250.

Would appreciate anyones comments and alternative ideas ? I can really see anyway of getting another system in there and i dont want to run one huge system with a large pump cooling everything because that will only sacrifice my cpu and gpu temps.

(note that green areas are air proposed ducting tubes and also teh GPU could also be cooled by the 1st WC system and maybe the NB watercooled as well)

[Crosstrack16]

I'm curious, what fanless psu are you using? custom right...

Sounds to me like the tubing and rads could hold enough coolant, not to mention the three hdd coolers, so you may want to eliminate the res or just use one small one.

What about making some shrouds for the rads, if you have room, that could bring the temp down a few degrees.

Also, why dont you switch the cpu system to use the airplex rad instead of the black ice micro since the cpu puts out more heat. The drives really dont add that much extra heat and would better use the micro rads.

What pumps are you planning to use, its says you may opt for the 1250's but what are your original choices?

[jackal2513]

crosstrack, the cpu will be using the BIMicors AND teh heater core so its getting by far the better cooling.

I could add shrouds to teh heatercore as shown in eth picture and I will do that.. a minor point.

More worrying is if the airplex rad will get cool enough cos it can only really pull hotter air through it from outside the case under my desk, or push hot case air through it out into the open.

Ideally you want all rads pulling in air low to eth ground bu this is just not possible here cos of space. So i am trying to think up alternative solutions .... maybe separate/seal off the top of the case where the airplex is so that it has its own colder ambient air which the airplex can use ?


pumps will be eheim 1048 or one 1250 if i need it

[Aardil]

SO IF I understand your drawing correctly, you will have 3 Rads on the CPU and 1 on the 3 HD's and GPU?

Personally I think you are going to alot of trouble and will get little to no benifit.
Reasons:
3 Rads on CPU, with this type of system the best you can hope for is a couple degres above ambient temp. The closer to room temp you get the less cooling ability a Air to Rad set up can pull heat from the water. ( there are posts all over this site about this topic by people that know these things and can give you the technical data to back it up)
Bix micros are restrictive, the heater core alone is more than enough to get as close to ambient as you will get ( assuming it is a good one) and gives much better flow.

I am running 2 PC's from one cooling system, (The sytem is posted) I tried combining the return water before the rads and got no differeance in temp from when I had it running with each PC using its own Rad. That to me says I am close enough to ambient that the Bix extreme's I am using cant get rid of any more heat.

Check you fan set up also, If I read it correctly you are going to end up with positive preasure in the case, you intake and exhaust fans should be matched( IE 2 80MM fans in 2 80 mm fans out)

This is what Is see. Not trying to be ugly but I think you are going through alot of trouble for little to no benifit. I could be wrong, so please feel free to correct anything I may have misinterpreted.
Aardil

[MadDogMe]

T-H-E, the ...

The difference in air temp from the bottom of your case to the top (from the outside) is going to be very small. It's always worth pulling 'out of case' air in whether it's from the top or the bottom...

It's suposed to be better to have more fans blowing in 'cause it stops dust being drawn in through every crack or hole. That's the only reason. Whatever produces the most airflow through the case is best, regardless of whether it creates positive or negative case pressure...

I'd concentrate on fitting everything into your case as neatly as possible first, otherwise you'll be chasing that 'degree of performance gain' forever!, and 2DegC does'nt usualy make a damn to CPU performance/overclocks ...

PS: I'd use a single heatercore. There's no reason a single heatercore should'nt 'dispose' of a CPU & GPU's & HD's heat. If you're getting awful temps with a HC then I'd look elswhere for the problem...

[jackal2513]

Aardil,

thanks for the comments


when i added the x2 BIMicors i saw a 4-5 C idle drop and maybe a 7-9 C load temp drop. Also, the rads are currently in series and theory suggests that in parallel i would get even better benefits.

However, those gains were over a single Maxexpert rad which is not exactly one of teh worls best so if my main rad had been soemthing like a Dtek heatercore then maybe the BIMicors would have had less overall effect. I agree that ambient will not change much but under load runing more rads (especially when they have 5-7v fans on them and are operating way below maximum efficiency) temps should be better and recovery should as well if they are in parallel.


Admittedly part of this plan is cosmetic. I'd like to fill out the case as mauch as possible and i want it to look right.

I think for th moment I am going to air cool the NB passively and leave the HD's alone and put up with the noise. I'll get my fanless PSU and then also change the Maxexpert for a Dtek Hetaercore with shrouds and swap the Innovatek for a whitewater and change to 1/2 inch tygon all round. After that i think i'll then focus on the best way to get HD's and NB cooled as well. It may be that with a heatercore/Whirewater/1/2 tygon/eheim 1250/Dual BIMicro system will also have enough power to cool the NB and hard drives as well. Maybe put the BIMicros after the CPU and GPU before flow goes into the HD coolers and NB ?

[airspirit]

That is going to be one loud sonuvabitch. Get rid of the BIMs, first off. They are absolutely unnecessary. If you want to go strictly parallel, just use one pump (rather than the two you would need in that setup) and break off into two parallel loops. One would go to the CPU (think 1/2" ID tubing), and one would go to the GPU/HDDs (think 3/8" ID tubing). Hook the most efficient rad to the CPU, and the least efficient to the others.

Reconsider watercooling your HDDs. There is almost no point to it, really. You'd be better off directing a low speed and low voltage 120mm fan over them. Otherwise they will just provide an extra heat load to your watercooling loop. Just a thought.

Now, with all of that said, you will have a few things to overcome. You will need to find a way to do away with all of the air you will be pumping into the case through your rads. If you think one 80mm fan will do it, you have another thing coming. If you were to use Panaflo "L" 120mm fans on the rads at 7V pushing into the case, you would need a couple/few of the same pushing out to prevent air stagnation inside of the case (there is a good article on this here on procooling). With the amount of large fans you will be using, I would suggest something a little unconventional here:

USE THE FANS TO BLOW OUT OF THE CASE.

While the air that will blow over the rads will be warmer than the fresh external air, your system would be much quieter since you will be using half as many fans, and since you will be using three 120s, you will have enough flow through your case that the temperature difference will not be all that great. This, incidentally, would also help keep your HDDs from getting too warmed even if they are not watercooled. You will have to ensure that you have ample intake space in the back of your case (and your PSU, which will also benefit), and it would work great.

Anyway, those are my thoughts ....

[jackal2513]

airspirit,


thanks for your comments,

can you tell me what you mean by

USE THE FANS TO BLOW OUT OF THE CASE.


?


do i not have any exhaust fans then ?

[Blackeagle]

I'd suggest forgetting the harddrives just as Airspirit said. I'd also do away with the micro and airplex rads.

Get a larger heater core & use dual 120mm fans on it, could also use a Hydor L30 pump. The Hydor is smaller and a bit better pushing pressure than a Ehiem 1250. It is also said to be extremly quiet.
Then add a top blow hole exhaust to aid the single 80mm you have.

Would cost a ton less money, and perform pretty well.

And as Airspirit also said your hard drives will be well cooled from such a high air flow without water cooling.

And it will be quieter with:

1 less pump

2 fewer fans on rads, and one less fan total

[airspirit]

I meant instead of pulling air into the case, use your rad fans to push it out of the case. In effect, they will all be exhaust fans, and all vents in the case will be passive intakes.

[redleader]

Get rid of all but the large rad. The others don't make any meaningful difference and add noise. If you want two pumps put them inline.

I cooled more then that with 3 80mm Panaflo fans on a heatercore.

[jackal2513]

ahh.. i see

you mean having teh fans pushing air from teh case through teh rads then to the outside, acting as exhausts at the same time


won't the hot case air mean that the rads wont be that cool though ?

[Zhentar]

I think the black ice micros are not needed....

if you have a 120 mm through the heatercore for the CPU, and the 2 120mm for the GPU/hard drives as exhaust should leave you with good case airflow, even with 5 volt fans, and pretty good temperatures.

I disagree with the others on watercooling the HDs- they won't add a whole lot of heat to your GPU loop, and more importantly, you can fit them in whatever enclosure you want. I found 1 inch of open cell foam rather effective for quieting a whiny maxtor drive.

[airspirit]

If indeed he is going to use multiple rads, there will be such high airflow that the difference in air temperature will be negligable. If he only used ONE radiator, he will want to pull air in from outside of the case. It really depends on the application: there are no hard and fast rules to watercooling, except that every setup will be different. The trick is optimizing your kit for your specific PC.