"Jet" block ver. 1.

jaydee · 07-05-2003, 11:28 AM

This is a continuation of my REV 1.0. This incorporates some of Cathars ideas in the Cascade. And alot of this transpired in This Thread aswell.

-----

All the pics above were taken while having a 200GPH at 0 head submersable pump hooked up. The flow is better than I would have expected with such a crap pump. I had it hooked up to comp for a few days and the temps were rather good for such low flow. After hooking up the rad in the system water was just trickling out of the outlets.

I will not bother with actual numbers as they are pretty usless to anyone but me aty this point. This is the first working prototype in my quest to prefect this as much as I can will the tools at hand. The pipes on this one were done with the laser at work. I am pretty much restricted to 9 pipes as I have it as any smaller and the pipes collapse when trying to laser them. I already tried making smller pipes with great success, but when I try lasering or drilling them out they break. Next version will be done on my CNC mill. I should be able to add some more pipes and still be able to drill the holes fine. But that is down the road a bit.... Lots of refinments to do....

Also the cups in the base where done with a flat bottom engraving bit so the bottoms are flat to aid in the impingment effect.

Once ph gets his test bed up and is whilling to test DIY blocks I will send him a couple. Also getting my test bed put together but still several months out on it....

bigben2k · 07-05-2003, 11:45 AM

Whatever happened to the ThrustMaster pump?

jaydee · 07-05-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Whatever happened to the ThrustMaster pump?

I just finished setting it up last night. I have been constructing a resivore for it and what not. I tell you what that damn thing could propel a small boat. The hose starts lifting out of your hand even with the rad hooked up! It is a sweet pump. I have my Lemon Block hooked up to it now. I need to tear the Jet block apart and clean the pipes. Two or three appear to be plugged.

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bigben2k · 07-05-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
I need to tear the Jet block apart and clean the pipes. Two or three appear to be plugged.

Yeah, I need to start looking into a water filter. Right now, it's not even on my list of things to do!

Zymrgy · 07-06-2003, 12:16 AM

great looking case Jaydee.....

jaydee · 07-06-2003, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zymrgy
great looking case Jaydee.....

Yeah, paid a little to much for it though.

jaydee · 07-07-2003, 02:39 PM

I am going to pick up some 1/16" endmills and see what I can do with them on my mill. I should be able to make these jets pretty easy on it. I am sticking with 9-13 jets though instead of the crazy amount Cathar and the Cathar clones are. I think I can do pretty good with 13 jets total. That will easily cover the Die and then some. And with less and bigger jets flow rate is increased which is good for smaller pumps. Lots of work/experimentation left to do though.

I love this design as all the milling is done in plastic. I might even be able to get away with milling these in my apt. as the noise should be minimal.

jaydee · 07-07-2003, 06:38 PM

Just ordered a Maze 4. Now I will have something to gauge against.

leejsmith · 07-08-2003, 05:57 AM

are your jet tubes going inside the cups ?

jaydee · 07-08-2003, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by leejsmith
are your jet tubes going inside the cups ?

No, they are dead even with the top of the holes on this one. Suprizingly with about 10GPH the temps are still just as good as my REV. 4 block. I havn't had time to hook it up to my HydroThruster 500GPH pump yet. I am waiting for my Maze 4 to get here before I continue with anything. I need a reference point to work off of and the Maze 4 will be it.

TheDanMan · 07-08-2003, 01:16 PM

I have watched this design evolve into what it is now. But I was wondering, would it be feasable to nock down the machining time by mearly drilling holes throught the plexi then inserting copper tubes? It seems to me that this would be a much more manufacturable process then machining the tubules.

jaydee · 07-08-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheDanMan
I have watched this design evolve into what it is now. But I was wondering, would it be feasable to nock down the machining time by mearly drilling holes throught the plexi then inserting copper tubes? It seems to me that this would be a much more manufacturable process then machining the tubules.

I don't know. The Acrylic needs milling one way or the other as you have to mill an area away so the water will have a place to travel to the outlets. With my 9 or 13 hole designs it will not take very long to mill. I am not going to consider the copper tubes simply because I have a mill and am not going to be making these to sell. Look at the "New Design Idea" thread and you will see lee's design that is made up just as you say. http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&pagenumber=1

I did the one shown in the pics above with the laser at work. It only took about 2 minutes. The next one will be milled on my CNC mill and I am guessing it will take around 15-20minutes as it is a small mill with limited RPM's.

TheDanMan · 07-08-2003, 03:21 PM

While I still anticipated it would need to be milled, I did not know you had a laser at your disposal. All I've got is a drill press :-). Or you could ad another layer of plexi in there, but more is not always neccesarily better. I like the way you're doing it and I say march on if you got your own CNC!

I like the one with the copper tubes, it is more within my range of manufacture. I'm thinking of doing something similar, I'll post it up after if done it up in cad.

jaydee · 07-13-2003, 08:37 PM

Jet block version 2. I just sealed this one up and will drop it on the test bed tomorrow evening after I finish up with the Maze 4. Jet block version one will then follow as will all my other blocks...

Ashhousewares · 07-14-2003, 06:53 AM

hey jaydee,i have an aluminum crossdrilled block and i was wondering how other aluminum blocks held up. i want to make a microchannel block once i get some resources but i want to keep everything aluminum. does that aluminum block work near as efficiently as any of these copper blocks?

jaydee · 07-14-2003, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashhousewares
hey jaydee,i have an aluminum crossdrilled block and i was wondering how other aluminum blocks held up. i want to make a microchannel block once i get some resources but i want to keep everything aluminum. does that aluminum block work near as efficiently as any of these copper blocks?

I have made many aluminum blocks and they all worked ok. The Lemon Block in the pic above is a few C better than the Maze 4 and it is aluminum.

MMZ_TimeLord · 07-14-2003, 03:40 PM

All I have to say is NICE WORK Jaydee!!!

What size endmill did you use to machine out those tubes?

Were they machined before drilling them out or after?

I am more and more feeling the urge to somehow, someway pull my mill out of storage...

jaydee · 07-14-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MMZ_TimeLord
All I have to say is NICE WORK Jaydee!!!

What size endmill did you use to machine out those tubes?

Were they machined before drilling them out or after?

I am more and more feeling the urge to somehow, someway pull my mill out of storage...

Lasered not milled.

Tuff · 07-14-2003, 11:16 PM

JayDee...someone steal your name...Normally I would not expect to see these kind of claims from you.

Guage it with a Maze 4<-------gee...like I never heard the last of it from you when I did such a thing with a Maze 3.

I will use less jets than Cathar and the Clones...You forget about surface area?

Its nice that you are again making blocks...but lose the newbieness and get back to what works.

Jets are aligned with the tops....what about flow...you argued my post saying it would not work...now "YOU DO IT"

I have a name for your new block...Call it the Foot in the Mouth Block.

Ahhh....yes..this feels good.

Tuff

jaydee · 07-14-2003, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuff
JayDee...someone steal your name...Normally I would not expect to see these kind of claims from you.

Guage it with a Maze 4<-------gee...like I never heard the last of it from you when I did such a thing with a Maze 3.

I will use less jets than Cathar and the Clones...You forget about surface area?

Its nice that you are again making blocks...but lose the newbieness and get back to what works.

Jets are aligned with the tops....what about flow...you argued my post saying it would not work...now "YOU DO IT"

I have a name for your new block...Call it the Foot in the Mouth Block.

Ahhh....yes..this feels good.

Tuff

LOL, you still can't get it through your head eh? You where comparing CATHARS results with your results. If you just used YOUR maze 3 and shut up about Cathars it would have been a little different. And where is you quality of testing? Your onboard probe reads over 5C in swings in less than 9 seconds!!! And WTF do you mean I am doing it now? My first version of this was REV 1 several months before ANYONE was posting their versions. Did you not read in Cathars posts where he got the ideas for the Cascade? Did you not see my name along with a few others? I guess your quick to forget and slow to learn. Bad combo...

Anyway aside from the ignorant fool, the Jet Block #2 sucks balls because there is no flow. My 500GPH Hydrothruster is brought to its knees. I suspected it would. The holes are just not deep enough and I should have taken another 1/6" off the acrylic channel around the pipes. Thats what I get for designing and building this block in less than 15minutes.

Jet block #1 however showed decent flow with the smaller 200GPH pump. I will get it put together again and slap it on maybe tomorrow.

How ever it works out these will be the last version of the Jet blocks. I have a few ideas using the jets in other types of applications other than direct impingment.

Khledar · 07-15-2003, 03:33 AM

I kinda like the name "Foot in the Mouth Block" even though your foot was nowhere near your mouth jaydee - it just sounds funny... tehehe - "Radius".... "White Water" .... "Maze" those names come no where near the humour of the name "Foot in the Mouth Block"

Ahhh sigh.

bigben2k · 07-15-2003, 07:21 AM

From a designer's perspective, yeah, the block is going to bring any pump to its knees: you've only got 9 jets. IMO, you would do well to calculate the pressure drop, and try to tune those jets for a pump's optimal range.

Cathar's design compensates for the pressure drop by having a whole bunch of tubes, so it works well with any pump

. As the flow rate increases, the pressure drop increases exponentially, so big pump owners need to have a nice pump, with a lot more head than flow, to run nicely.

I really wouldn't give up on the jet block just yet. LeeJSmith's work is top notch, and uses a brass tube, for the jets, which I think is great because at higher flow speeds, a smooth inner surface in the tube is going to be less restrictive, and should result in a very focused jet.

"Cascade" isn't hard to make, but it's hard to make it right. I think it would be a perfect exercise for you, JD.

Tuff · 07-15-2003, 08:17 AM

JayDee's
Quote:
Did you not read in Cathars posts where he got the ideas for the Cascade?

If I remember correctly it had something to do with him washing dishes

JayDee...I might be missing something here..Washing dishes or JayDee's idea...hmmm...Unless JayDee means washing dishes in some other language?????

Yep...I guess the credit is yours.

Anything you do now with Cups is a clone block...not that its a bad thing...but why try to improve on a design that Cathar has already nailed? OR why repeat the mistakes that "I" already made with that block design?

Sorry JayDee from the way you present yourself on this forum...I would have thought you would be beyond mistakes and guessing when making a block.

Tuff

pippin88 · 07-15-2003, 08:25 AM

Tuff I believe Cathar has acknowledged that JayDee's ideas and input helped develop the block.

Just because it uses cups doesn't make it a clone block. It was the same with the LRWW, as soon as it came out, anything using microchannels was a direct clone. Cathar even had to say that this was no so, and he did not invent jet impingement or microchannels. I hope we don't have to go through that again.

Tuff · 07-15-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pippin88
Tuff I believe Cathar has acknowledged that JayDee's ideas and input helped develop the block.

Just because it uses cups doesn't make it a clone block. It was the same with the LRWW, as soon as it came out, anything using microchannels was a direct clone. Cathar even had to say that this was no so, and he did not invent jet impingement or microchannels. I hope we don't have to go through that again.

JayDee is the one that mentioned CLONE in this post.

Tuff

07-08-2003, 01:16 PM	#11
TheDanMan Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 11	I have watched this design evolve into what it is now. But I was wondering, would it be feasable to nock down the machining time by mearly drilling holes throught the plexi then inserting copper tubes? It seems to me that this would be a much more manufacturable process then machining the tubules. __________________ danny@edlangroup.com monthly LANs every 4th sat www.edlangroup.com Edmond, Oklahoma

07-08-2003, 03:21 PM	#13
TheDanMan Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 11	While I still anticipated it would need to be milled, I did not know you had a laser at your disposal. All I've got is a drill press :-). Or you could ad another layer of plexi in there, but more is not always neccesarily better. I like the way you're doing it and I say march on if you got your own CNC! I like the one with the copper tubes, it is more within my range of manufacture. I'm thinking of doing something similar, I'll post it up after if done it up in cad. __________________ danny@edlangroup.com monthly LANs every 4th sat www.edlangroup.com Edmond, Oklahoma

07-14-2003, 03:40 PM	#17
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	All I have to say is NICE WORK Jaydee!!! What size endmill did you use to machine out those tubes? Were they machined before drilling them out or after? I am more and more feeling the urge to somehow, someway pull my mill out of storage... __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

07-15-2003, 03:33 AM	#21
Khledar Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver BC Posts: 234	I kinda like the name "Foot in the Mouth Block" even though your foot was nowhere near your mouth jaydee - it just sounds funny... tehehe - "Radius".... "White Water" .... "Maze" those names come no where near the humour of the name "Foot in the Mouth Block" Ahhh sigh. __________________ "mooooo" said the cow. ERTW - UBC P4 2.4B @3.01Ghz 167FSB :: Abit IC7 :: 2x256MB HyperX PC3700 :: ASUS 9600XT :: WD Raptor 2x36GB RAID0

07-15-2003, 07:21 AM	#22
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	From a designer's perspective, yeah, the block is going to bring any pump to its knees: you've only got 9 jets. IMO, you would do well to calculate the pressure drop, and try to tune those jets for a pump's optimal range. Cathar's design compensates for the pressure drop by having a whole bunch of tubes, so it works well with any pump . As the flow rate increases, the pressure drop increases exponentially, so big pump owners need to have a nice pump, with a lot more head than flow, to run nicely. I really wouldn't give up on the jet block just yet. LeeJSmith's work is top notch, and uses a brass tube, for the jets, which I think is great because at higher flow speeds, a smooth inner surface in the tube is going to be less restrictive, and should result in a very focused jet. "Cascade" isn't hard to make, but it's hard to make it right. I think it would be a perfect exercise for you, JD. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-05-2003, 11:28 AM	#1
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	"Jet" block ver. 1. This is a continuation of my REV 1.0. This incorporates some of Cathars ideas in the Cascade. And alot of this transpired in This Thread aswell. ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- All the pics above were taken while having a 200GPH at 0 head submersable pump hooked up. The flow is better than I would have expected with such a crap pump. I had it hooked up to comp for a few days and the temps were rather good for such low flow. After hooking up the rad in the system water was just trickling out of the outlets. I will not bother with actual numbers as they are pretty usless to anyone but me aty this point. This is the first working prototype in my quest to prefect this as much as I can will the tools at hand. The pipes on this one were done with the laser at work. I am pretty much restricted to 9 pipes as I have it as any smaller and the pipes collapse when trying to laser them. I already tried making smller pipes with great success, but when I try lasering or drilling them out they break. Next version will be done on my CNC mill. I should be able to add some more pipes and still be able to drill the holes fine. But that is down the road a bit.... Lots of refinments to do.... Also the cups in the base where done with a flat bottom engraving bit so the bottoms are flat to aid in the impingment effect. Once ph gets his test bed up and is whilling to test DIY blocks I will send him a couple. Also getting my test bed put together but still several months out on it....

07-05-2003, 11:45 AM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Whatever happened to the ThrustMaster pump? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-06-2003, 12:16 AM	#5
Zymrgy Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: USA Posts: 96	great looking case Jaydee.....

07-07-2003, 02:39 PM	#7
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I am going to pick up some 1/16" endmills and see what I can do with them on my mill. I should be able to make these jets pretty easy on it. I am sticking with 9-13 jets though instead of the crazy amount Cathar and the Cathar clones are. I think I can do pretty good with 13 jets total. That will easily cover the Die and then some. And with less and bigger jets flow rate is increased which is good for smaller pumps. Lots of work/experimentation left to do though. I love this design as all the milling is done in plastic. I might even be able to get away with milling these in my apt. as the noise should be minimal.

07-07-2003, 06:38 PM	#8
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Just ordered a Maze 4. Now I will have something to gauge against.

07-08-2003, 05:57 AM	#9
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	are your jet tubes going inside the cups ?

07-13-2003, 08:37 PM	#14
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Jet block version 2. I just sealed this one up and will drop it on the test bed tomorrow evening after I finish up with the Maze 4. Jet block version one will then follow as will all my other blocks...

07-14-2003, 06:53 AM	#15
Ashhousewares Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, Tx Posts: 6	hey jaydee,i have an aluminum crossdrilled block and i was wondering how other aluminum blocks held up. i want to make a microchannel block once i get some resources but i want to keep everything aluminum. does that aluminum block work near as efficiently as any of these copper blocks?

07-14-2003, 11:16 PM	#19
Tuff Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 141	JayDee...someone steal your name...Normally I would not expect to see these kind of claims from you. Guage it with a Maze 4<-------gee...like I never heard the last of it from you when I did such a thing with a Maze 3. I will use less jets than Cathar and the Clones...You forget about surface area? Its nice that you are again making blocks...but lose the newbieness and get back to what works. Jets are aligned with the tops....what about flow...you argued my post saying it would not work...now "YOU DO IT" I have a name for your new block...Call it the Foot in the Mouth Block. Ahhh....yes..this feels good. Tuff

07-15-2003, 08:17 AM	#23
Tuff Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 141	JayDee's Quote: Did you not read in Cathars posts where he got the ideas for the Cascade? If I remember correctly it had something to do with him washing dishes JayDee...I might be missing something here..Washing dishes or JayDee's idea...hmmm...Unless JayDee means washing dishes in some other language????? Yep...I guess the credit is yours. Anything you do now with Cups is a clone block...not that its a bad thing...but why try to improve on a design that Cathar has already nailed? OR why repeat the mistakes that "I" already made with that block design? Sorry JayDee from the way you present yourself on this forum...I would have thought you would be beyond mistakes and guessing when making a block. Tuff

07-15-2003, 08:25 AM	#24
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Tuff I believe Cathar has acknowledged that JayDee's ideas and input helped develop the block. Just because it uses cups doesn't make it a clone block. It was the same with the LRWW, as soon as it came out, anything using microchannels was a direct clone. Cathar even had to say that this was no so, and he did not invent jet impingement or microchannels. I hope we don't have to go through that again.

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