High Pressure Flow

CoolROD · 08-08-2003, 10:50 AM

Has there been much thought put into higher pressure water cooling systems? :shrug:

It seems that every body is set on centrifugal pumps...

I am looking into positive displacement pumps such as vane pumps, gerotors, and gear pumps. 15-20 PSI would do wonders to increase water flow through most water blocks. I realize that there is a limit to the pressure a heater core can withstand -but they regularly run at 10-15 PSI. In my industry, when I need more flow, I just ease up the pressure.

sevisehda · 08-08-2003, 11:13 AM

High pressure washers are normally pretty loud. In most cases its not necessary to have super powerful pumps. I small queit pump can handle most systems without a problem.

CoolROD · 08-08-2003, 11:27 AM

I am putting 300 Watts into my water-cooling system and would like to drop the temperature of my water block.

There has been a tremendous amount of thought put into W/B design and I know that there are better designs than mine. For the mean time I would like to run the one I have.

I can easily make a small vane or gear pump if I can't find one. I can CNC the housing out of brass. Plastic spur gears can readily be bought and a friend sharing my building is about to put a wire EDM online.

Has anyone tried substantially increasing the pressure of their water-cooled system to increase flow?

pHaestus · 08-08-2003, 01:12 PM

It's primarily a cost issue. Might wanna look into reverse osmosis and other water purification systems for laboratories as a source for positive displacement pumps. Usually $200 and up though!

There are a few Iwakis that people covet that are similar as well.

CoolROD · 08-08-2003, 02:33 PM

Some of the Iwaki pumps meet my specs -and in a centrifugal. I prefer to stay with a centrifugal because there are No Wear Parts besides the bearings. I am going to look into these a little further... Thank You for the good link.

sevisehda · 08-08-2003, 06:28 PM

If you want to up the pressure run a bunch of pumps in series. You could easily get an old AT 150Watt PS and use it to power 4-5 Johnson Pumps. That would give you alot of pressure and alot of flow. The total would be about 200$.

My 2 cents.

nikhsub1 · 08-08-2003, 06:52 PM

An MD-70RZ = MAX. SYS. PRESSURE (PSI) 42.7 with a 66.6 ft. max head. That is there highest PSI centrifugal (I think). The biggest pump I think I would ever use would be the MD-30RZ with 24.2 PSI and a 36 ft. max head. I use the MD-15R and even that is probably overkill.

CoolROD · 08-08-2003, 07:13 PM

I am giving these a lot of consideration. They are probably out of my price range, but are nice looking units. Are there any flow figures for a maze 3 or other water block at 10-20 PSI?

myv65 · 08-09-2003, 06:51 PM

The reasonable explanation is that the added convection efficiency due to higher flows (beyond what you can get with pond pumps) results in only marginal improvements. Look at blocks such as Cathar's and you'll soon see that thermal resistance of the TIM joint is often the single largest resistance in the system. This is true at flows under 10 l/m. Added pressure generally brings two things along with it, noise and increased potential for leaks.

Take a look at C/W values vs flow and you'll see that they all flatten out long before the 10 psig range.

CoolROD · 08-09-2003, 09:28 PM

Ok, that is the kind of information that I need. Thank You. I am flowing just under 10L / min with the Johnson. I have not tested the system with the res., but I am making other improvements that will offset any losses with it (the res.).

I am still looking for a replacement for the Johnson due to it's noise, it's finite brush-comm. life, and the fact that it has dynamic seals. I should also be able to build a leak-free system at nearly any system pressure.

I am ignorant WRT water block theory / design, though I have some thermo. education and experience. I have barely read a thread on the subject and just haven't studied it -yet.

I work with pumps and understand that some types of pumps are inherantly louder than others. I am also aware that in increase in work done or power input will likely result in more energy lost as noise. (if no increase in efficiency). Increased water flow should be only slightly audible. I don't understand why there would be a considerable noise increase associated with a small increase in operating pressure...but if there is no advantage why bother.

08-08-2003, 10:50 AM	#1
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	High Pressure Flow Has there been much thought put into higher pressure water cooling systems? :shrug: It seems that every body is set on centrifugal pumps... I am looking into positive displacement pumps such as vane pumps, gerotors, and gear pumps. 15-20 PSI would do wonders to increase water flow through most water blocks. I realize that there is a limit to the pressure a heater core can withstand -but they regularly run at 10-15 PSI. In my industry, when I need more flow, I just ease up the pressure. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-08-2003, 11:27 AM	#3
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	I am putting 300 Watts into my water-cooling system and would like to drop the temperature of my water block. There has been a tremendous amount of thought put into W/B design and I know that there are better designs than mine. For the mean time I would like to run the one I have. I can easily make a small vane or gear pump if I can't find one. I can CNC the housing out of brass. Plastic spur gears can readily be bought and a friend sharing my building is about to put a wire EDM online. Has anyone tried substantially increasing the pressure of their water-cooled system to increase flow? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-08-2003, 02:33 PM	#5
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Some of the Iwaki pumps meet my specs -and in a centrifugal. I prefer to stay with a centrifugal because there are No Wear Parts besides the bearings. I am going to look into these a little further... Thank You for the good link. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-08-2003, 06:52 PM	#7
nikhsub1 c00ling p00n Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: L.A. Posts: 758	An MD-70RZ = MAX. SYS. PRESSURE (PSI) 42.7 with a 66.6 ft. max head. That is there highest PSI centrifugal (I think). The biggest pump I think I would ever use would be the MD-30RZ with 24.2 PSI and a 36 ft. max head. I use the MD-15R and even that is probably overkill. __________________ :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-: E6700 @ 3.65Ghz / P5W DH Deluxe / 2GB 667 TeamGroup / 1900XTX PC Power & Cooling Turbo 510 Deluxe Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube Storm G5 --> MP-01 --> PA 120.3 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." 1,223,460+ Ghz Folding@Home aNonForums :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:

08-08-2003, 07:13 PM	#8
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	I am giving these a lot of consideration. They are probably out of my price range, but are nice looking units. Are there any flow figures for a maze 3 or other water block at 10-20 PSI? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-08-2003, 11:13 AM	#2
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	High pressure washers are normally pretty loud. In most cases its not necessary to have super powerful pumps. I small queit pump can handle most systems without a problem.

08-08-2003, 01:12 PM	#4
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	It's primarily a cost issue. Might wanna look into reverse osmosis and other water purification systems for laboratories as a source for positive displacement pumps. Usually $200 and up though! There are a few Iwakis that people covet that are similar as well.

08-08-2003, 06:28 PM	#6
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	If you want to up the pressure run a bunch of pumps in series. You could easily get an old AT 150Watt PS and use it to power 4-5 Johnson Pumps. That would give you alot of pressure and alot of flow. The total would be about 200$. My 2 cents.

08-09-2003, 06:51 PM	#9
myv65 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: home Posts: 365	The reasonable explanation is that the added convection efficiency due to higher flows (beyond what you can get with pond pumps) results in only marginal improvements. Look at blocks such as Cathar's and you'll soon see that thermal resistance of the TIM joint is often the single largest resistance in the system. This is true at flows under 10 l/m. Added pressure generally brings two things along with it, noise and increased potential for leaks. Take a look at C/W values vs flow and you'll see that they all flatten out long before the 10 psig range.

08-09-2003, 09:28 PM	#10
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Ok, that is the kind of information that I need. Thank You. I am flowing just under 10L / min with the Johnson. I have not tested the system with the res., but I am making other improvements that will offset any losses with it (the res.). I am still looking for a replacement for the Johnson due to it's noise, it's finite brush-comm. life, and the fact that it has dynamic seals. I should also be able to build a leak-free system at nearly any system pressure. I am ignorant WRT water block theory / design, though I have some thermo. education and experience. I have barely read a thread on the subject and just haven't studied it -yet. I work with pumps and understand that some types of pumps are inherantly louder than others. I am also aware that in increase in work done or power input will likely result in more energy lost as noise. (if no increase in efficiency). Increased water flow should be only slightly audible. I don't understand why there would be a considerable noise increase associated with a small increase in operating pressure...but if there is no advantage why bother. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

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