MagDrive Question ????

phreenet · 03-11-2001, 03:48 PM

Ok folks, I got a Mag Drive 250 pump, it works ok. But I just dont think its moving enough water for two waterblocks and soon to be two hayden 4x4s, I was thinking about getting a more powerful 350 (minimum) to 600+. Now I got an In-Win Q500, and space is becoming a prob. Does the size of the pump increase from 250 to 350 or up???. I really dont have room for anything bigger than what I got

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-11-2001, 04:04 PM

Phreenet:

You can go all the way up to the 700GPH model and it will be the same size. Once you get to the 950 model, the size increases slightly.

check this page for all the specs:
http://www.pondmaster.com/specifications.htm

This is for pondmaster brand but it's the same EXACT pump, don't worry. It's just OEM stuff.

Alives · 03-12-2001, 02:18 AM

you can get rid of a certain amount of heat with the water. the processor might be hotter at the 250-350gph range but anything higher is a waste to me because the relationship between heat absorbed and gph isnt linear.

phreenet · 03-12-2001, 05:11 AM

but I feel that im not getting enough water moving because I have lots of hose. When you look at the water coming out of my 4x4 radiator it feels like a small trickle. I think I have two much head height. So if its not linear what is it? Logrythmic? If there an exponinteal formula I should be aware of? (I cant spell

)

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-12-2001, 08:22 AM

phreenet:

Here's a chart for the flow rate vs head height for the Danner OEM line of pumps:

Scroll down to the bottom of the page.
http://www.hamptonwatergardens.com/pumps.htm

the 250GPH model is the 90522 in this case.

[This message has been edited by ck42 (edited 03-12-2001).]

phreenet · 03-12-2001, 12:50 PM

ck42: I know that my case isn't anywhere near the 7' shutoff. Maybe I should consult the chart that came with my pump to tell me GPH vs. Height. Is anyone else having the same prob. that the pressure comming out of a Hayden just doesnt seem to fill the Silicon Tube? It feels like its running down only by the shear luck of gravity. Well I am thinking about getting a case like Kevin has and installing a big momma like he is. Does anyone know if the same thing might happen with that radiator?

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-12-2001, 02:45 PM

Phreenet:

Headheight, I guess, would just be the pump pushing water up a column that is the same ID as the pump output.

Now,
Adding inline flow resistance, whether it be from a radiator, or a waterblock or whatever, is basically the same as adding more headheight...ie, it adds more resistance to the flow of water.

What you could do is measure how many gallons it's pumping through your system in 1 minute. This would then tell you the EQUIVALENT head height your system is producing with all its inline flow restrictions.

Would be kinda interesting to know the equivalent head height produced by EACH inline item. That way you could buy a pump ahead of time and know how many GPH it could pump before even putting the pump in the system....hmmm

phreenet · 03-12-2001, 02:50 PM

Man i saw those gauges for messuring GPH in McMaster-Carrs 4000page catalog I got, those things cost like $300+ smackers, for that much, I'd just overkill the system with a 700GPH pump (:-P) and a load of other goodies

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-12-2001, 03:36 PM

Phreenet:

Naaa! You don't need one of those mega bux monsters. I have a couple narrowed down that are all about $60 and lower that will do the job just fine. I DO plan on getting one once I know exactly what GPH range I need. For that, I need to get off my butt and hookup my pump, waterblock(when I get it), radiators, and see what my max flow rate is with the pump cranked all the way up....once I know that figure, I'm gonna order one.

phreenet · 03-12-2001, 03:43 PM

So you need to know the GPH before you order the guage? that doesn't make much sense? Im lost

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-12-2001, 05:34 PM

phreenet:

Imagine this. You order a guage that measures from 1-100GPH flowrates.

Your actual flow rates in your system are 2GPH

It's going to be kinda hard to read the guage because the resolution on the guage will be so coarse. The little float ball will look as tho it hasn't even moved from the bottom of the scale.

What you would want is a guage that would read from like 1-5GPH which would put the little float ball almost in the middle of the guage where it's easy to get a more accurate reading.

phreenet · 03-12-2001, 05:44 PM

yeah I see what you are saying. But some one said earlier (not in this thread) that pumps that move water faster through the system don't cool as good, I need a good number of people to tell me "yea or nea" on that theory. I myself, think that the faster moving pump will cool equally well if not better

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-12-2001, 05:57 PM

Phreenet:

I know...I know. I've heard both sides as well. That is why I'm going to perform my own tests.

I'll find out what my max flow is when everything is installed and then get a meter that goes to my max.

Then I'll use my handy dandy flow rate control knob to vary the rate and see what happens at different flow rates.

phreenet · 03-12-2001, 06:02 PM

Man youre loving that control knob aren't you

. BTW have you tested the pump out yet? You know just by itself?

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-12-2001, 06:28 PM

Well...like I said earlier in the other thread, I stuck it in a sink of water just to make sure it works and to see if it was going to be too loud or not....it works, and it seems to be quiet enough.

Otherwise, I haven't actually hooked up hose to it yet...I need adapters to fit the input and output of the pump. When my waterblock comes in, I'm going to do a *mock* hookup and run the whole loop and see what the max flow rate is...then order the flow rate meter (rotameter)

ondaedg · 03-14-2001, 12:09 AM

I don't believe that flow rates will affect cooling in the long run. The reason being is that it isn't how slow the water moves through the radiator, it is the total length of time that the water is IN the radiator. A slower moving pump and a faster moving pump have EQUAL lengths of times that the water is in the radiator tube. How do I know this? It is simple really. Just figure out the flowrate and the length/volume of tubing and use a simple mathematical formula. Despite the fact that higher flow rates travel through the radiators faster, they will be traveling through the radiators more often. This is a simple way to explain the reasoning behind my explanation. Keep in mind though, that this applies if the radiator is not a cooling bottleneck to the system only.

------------------
ondaedg@procooling.com

joefart · 03-14-2001, 01:24 AM

make sure there is no air in your radiator. i did the first time i set up a water cooling system and only a trickle of water was coming out of my tubing.

Freakyfrank · 03-14-2001, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joefart:
blabla

BillA?

, i'm sure joe won't appriciate your nick..

phreenet · 03-14-2001, 05:09 AM

No there isn't any air in the line. Because it only happens after the radiator, up until the radiator it is a nice solid flow

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

phreenet · 03-14-2001, 05:10 AM

No there isn't any air in the line. Because it only happens after the radiator, up until the radiator it is a nice solid flow

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

Alives · 03-14-2001, 01:18 PM

you cant keep clinging to the head height rule...these pumps arent being used in a fountain pump. your head height is the distance from your pump outlet to the return hose...usually a couple inches. The weight of the water cancels itself out. Think about it. How do you think water towers work? They gotta pump the water out of em? I dont think so.

ck42 · 03-14-2001, 02:36 PM

Alives:

No, the pumps are not being used in a fountain. They are being used in a computer case. But that is of no matter. Through a combination of tube length, peripheal restrictions, and any vertical water hose height, a head height is created. The higher the head height, the lower the flow rate from the pump will be.

The head heighth is defined as: Every ten feet of tubing the water is pumped through, adds resistance equal to one foot of rise, reducing the pump flow. So, either 10 feet of tubing all at the same level as the pump OR 1 foot of tubing going straight up....these two options will create the same amount of head height.

Water tower analogy doesn't hold water (pun intended)

phreenet · 03-14-2001, 04:58 PM

Well I have made up my mind about the pump situtation. When I redeisgn my entire cooling system in the next week or so, I am going to throw in a 400GPH MagDrive (or the equivlent OEM). Thanks a bunch CK for the information on pumps and power supplies.

------------------
Blah Blah Blah
Overclocked Dual PIII 933
sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling.
AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

ck42 · 03-14-2001, 05:26 PM

Phreenet:

Just glad I could be of some help.

Good luck!

joefart · 03-14-2001, 06:53 PM

Quote:

No there isn't any air in the line. Because it only happens after the radiator, up until the radiator it is a nice solid flow.

This would make believe that there IS air in the radiator. Up till the radiator, the flow is good, but after the radiator, it sucks. Something is inside the radiator that is blocking the flow and would most likely be air.

Joefart
Hot Stank extraordinare

[This message has been edited by joefart (edited 03-14-2001).]

03-11-2001, 03:48 PM	#1
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	MagDrive Question ???? Ok folks, I got a Mag Drive 250 pump, it works ok. But I just dont think its moving enough water for two waterblocks and soon to be two hayden 4x4s, I was thinking about getting a more powerful 350 (minimum) to 600+. Now I got an In-Win Q500, and space is becoming a prob. Does the size of the pump increase from 250 to 350 or up???. I really dont have room for anything bigger than what I got ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-11-2001, 04:04 PM	#2
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	Phreenet: You can go all the way up to the 700GPH model and it will be the same size. Once you get to the 950 model, the size increases slightly. check this page for all the specs: http://www.pondmaster.com/specifications.htm This is for pondmaster brand but it's the same EXACT pump, don't worry. It's just OEM stuff.

03-12-2001, 02:18 AM	#3
Alives Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 228	you can get rid of a certain amount of heat with the water. the processor might be hotter at the 250-350gph range but anything higher is a waste to me because the relationship between heat absorbed and gph isnt linear.

03-12-2001, 05:11 AM	#4
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	but I feel that im not getting enough water moving because I have lots of hose. When you look at the water coming out of my 4x4 radiator it feels like a small trickle. I think I have two much head height. So if its not linear what is it? Logrythmic? If there an exponinteal formula I should be aware of? (I cant spell ) ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-12-2001, 08:22 AM	#5
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	phreenet: Here's a chart for the flow rate vs head height for the Danner OEM line of pumps: Scroll down to the bottom of the page. http://www.hamptonwatergardens.com/pumps.htm the 250GPH model is the 90522 in this case. [This message has been edited by ck42 (edited 03-12-2001).]

03-12-2001, 12:50 PM	#6
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	ck42: I know that my case isn't anywhere near the 7' shutoff. Maybe I should consult the chart that came with my pump to tell me GPH vs. Height. Is anyone else having the same prob. that the pressure comming out of a Hayden just doesnt seem to fill the Silicon Tube? It feels like its running down only by the shear luck of gravity. Well I am thinking about getting a case like Kevin has and installing a big momma like he is. Does anyone know if the same thing might happen with that radiator? ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-12-2001, 02:45 PM	#7
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	Phreenet: Headheight, I guess, would just be the pump pushing water up a column that is the same ID as the pump output. Now, Adding inline flow resistance, whether it be from a radiator, or a waterblock or whatever, is basically the same as adding more headheight...ie, it adds more resistance to the flow of water. What you could do is measure how many gallons it's pumping through your system in 1 minute. This would then tell you the EQUIVALENT head height your system is producing with all its inline flow restrictions. Would be kinda interesting to know the equivalent head height produced by EACH inline item. That way you could buy a pump ahead of time and know how many GPH it could pump before even putting the pump in the system....hmmm

03-12-2001, 02:50 PM	#8
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	Man i saw those gauges for messuring GPH in McMaster-Carrs 4000page catalog I got, those things cost like $300+ smackers, for that much, I'd just overkill the system with a 700GPH pump (:-P) and a load of other goodies ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-12-2001, 03:36 PM	#9
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	Phreenet: Naaa! You don't need one of those mega bux monsters. I have a couple narrowed down that are all about $60 and lower that will do the job just fine. I DO plan on getting one once I know exactly what GPH range I need. For that, I need to get off my butt and hookup my pump, waterblock(when I get it), radiators, and see what my max flow rate is with the pump cranked all the way up....once I know that figure, I'm gonna order one.

03-12-2001, 03:43 PM	#10
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	So you need to know the GPH before you order the guage? that doesn't make much sense? Im lost ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-12-2001, 05:34 PM	#11
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	phreenet: Imagine this. You order a guage that measures from 1-100GPH flowrates. Your actual flow rates in your system are 2GPH It's going to be kinda hard to read the guage because the resolution on the guage will be so coarse. The little float ball will look as tho it hasn't even moved from the bottom of the scale. What you would want is a guage that would read from like 1-5GPH which would put the little float ball almost in the middle of the guage where it's easy to get a more accurate reading.

03-12-2001, 05:44 PM	#12
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	yeah I see what you are saying. But some one said earlier (not in this thread) that pumps that move water faster through the system don't cool as good, I need a good number of people to tell me "yea or nea" on that theory. I myself, think that the faster moving pump will cool equally well if not better ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-12-2001, 05:57 PM	#13
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	Phreenet: I know...I know. I've heard both sides as well. That is why I'm going to perform my own tests. I'll find out what my max flow is when everything is installed and then get a meter that goes to my max. Then I'll use my handy dandy flow rate control knob to vary the rate and see what happens at different flow rates.

03-12-2001, 06:02 PM	#14
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	Man youre loving that control knob aren't you . BTW have you tested the pump out yet? You know just by itself? ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-12-2001, 06:28 PM	#15
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	Well...like I said earlier in the other thread, I stuck it in a sink of water just to make sure it works and to see if it was going to be too loud or not....it works, and it seems to be quiet enough. Otherwise, I haven't actually hooked up hose to it yet...I need adapters to fit the input and output of the pump. When my waterblock comes in, I'm going to do a mock hookup and run the whole loop and see what the max flow rate is...then order the flow rate meter (rotameter)

03-14-2001, 12:09 AM	#16
ondaedg Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 130	I don't believe that flow rates will affect cooling in the long run. The reason being is that it isn't how slow the water moves through the radiator, it is the total length of time that the water is IN the radiator. A slower moving pump and a faster moving pump have EQUAL lengths of times that the water is in the radiator tube. How do I know this? It is simple really. Just figure out the flowrate and the length/volume of tubing and use a simple mathematical formula. Despite the fact that higher flow rates travel through the radiators faster, they will be traveling through the radiators more often. This is a simple way to explain the reasoning behind my explanation. Keep in mind though, that this applies if the radiator is not a cooling bottleneck to the system only. ------------------ ondaedg@procooling.com

03-14-2001, 01:24 AM	#17
joefart Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 7	make sure there is no air in your radiator. i did the first time i set up a water cooling system and only a trickle of water was coming out of my tubing.

03-14-2001, 05:09 AM	#19
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	No there isn't any air in the line. Because it only happens after the radiator, up until the radiator it is a nice solid flow ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-14-2001, 05:10 AM	#20
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	No there isn't any air in the line. Because it only happens after the radiator, up until the radiator it is a nice solid flow ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-14-2001, 01:18 PM	#21
Alives Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 228	you cant keep clinging to the head height rule...these pumps arent being used in a fountain pump. your head height is the distance from your pump outlet to the return hose...usually a couple inches. The weight of the water cancels itself out. Think about it. How do you think water towers work? They gotta pump the water out of em? I dont think so.

03-14-2001, 02:36 PM	#22
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	Alives: No, the pumps are not being used in a fountain. They are being used in a computer case. But that is of no matter. Through a combination of tube length, peripheal restrictions, and any vertical water hose height, a head height is created. The higher the head height, the lower the flow rate from the pump will be. The head heighth is defined as: Every ten feet of tubing the water is pumped through, adds resistance equal to one foot of rise, reducing the pump flow. So, either 10 feet of tubing all at the same level as the pump OR 1 foot of tubing going straight up....these two options will create the same amount of head height. Water tower analogy doesn't hold water (pun intended)

03-14-2001, 04:58 PM	#23
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	Well I have made up my mind about the pump situtation. When I redeisgn my entire cooling system in the next week or so, I am going to throw in a 400GPH MagDrive (or the equivlent OEM). Thanks a bunch CK for the information on pumps and power supplies. ------------------ Blah Blah Blah Overclocked Dual PIII 933 sitting on a VP6 mobo featuring liquid intercooling. AIM[SN]: PhreeNET

03-14-2001, 05:26 PM	#24
ck42 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta Posts: 154	Phreenet: Just glad I could be of some help. Good luck!

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