World exclusive: Zalman TNN500A noiseless cooling case

[bigben2k]

World exclusive: Zalman TNN500A noiseless cooling case.

http://www.nordichardware.com/review...ZalmanTNN500A/

(Nice work guys )

[jaydee]

I guess I could be a little picky but are there any performance numbers? Does all that fancy shit actually work? And how well does it work?

Looked like nothing more than product hype and advertizing.

[g.l.amour]

jaydee, you must be the most sceptical individual i know... although granted, i don't think that that case will give you oc + silence (performance numbers would clarify). it looks like a total pita to move, thats my first impression.

[pHaestus]

Looked like nothing more than product hype and advertizing.

Are you not familiar with how one typically gets "world exclusives"?*

*See also liquidninjas.com Dangerden RBX review

[bigben2k]

It's the first preview: no numbers yet, but we did get our hands on it. Didn't you read page 1? It's a prototype.

Pretty hefty at 25 kg (55 lbs).

You gotta admire the idea of running a PC without any fans, and still be cooling the CPU, GPU, PSU and HDDs. You can even passively cool the NB (optional) if you really want to.

I admire the effort to measure the ripple on the PSU power lines.


Some people are fans of Zalman...

[Joe]

OK... I got a few observations to make.

First. DONT CALL IT A PREVIEW. its a Commercial!

Second. those seem to me to be all Zalman produced PR pics NOT yours. But you say its in hand?

Third. How the **** can you have a "Conclusion" portion of a PREVIEW?! How can you conclude ANYTHING without reviewing it?

I call bullshit by a site desperate to claim a "world exclsuive" on a product that either it doesnt have or isnt allowed by the company to "review" it.

Whats next? Late night infomercials hawking knifes on the Home Shopping network?

Lame.

[jaydee]

What is this "Prototype" business? Whats the point in wasting time with an unfinished product? This isn't even a preview, it is a preview of a potential preview of a review not yet done....

I agree Ben it is a great concept but as of now that is all it is. This thing was announced back in April BTW. I am not sure what this "exclusive" business is but type the name of the thing in google and you will get plenty of other "previews" dated back from April/May. Sure they didn't have one in hand but they are just as informative. being thisis a "prototype" nothing in that article is usefull. Who knows what difference the final version will be being there has been several since at least April... One example: http://www.warp2search.net/modules.p...icle&sid=13396

This is a prototype of the case, hence we are not allowed to publish any benchmarking results with this system. A review of the final version will be done later on, but until then you'll have to settle with this preview.

Then quit wasting everyone's time and review stuff you CAN benchmark.

[trit187]

I'd rather waste my money on an p4EE.... 700-1000e holly sh!t thats expensive.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k
It's the first preview: no numbers yet, but we did get our hands on it. Didn't you read page 1? It's a prototype.

Pretty hefty at 25 kg (55 lbs).

You gotta admire the idea of running a PC without any fans, and still be cooling the CPU, GPU, PSU and HDDs. You can even passively cool the NB (optional) if you really want to.

I admire the effort to measure the ripple on the PSU power lines.


Some people are fans of Zalman...

Now that I got more time. You say this is just a preview of a prototype and no testing yet. So even if you DID test it what is it going to matter if it is just a prototype? Also if this company didn't have anything to hide then one would think they would WANT it to be reviewed now, if not then why send it? If I had a protoype that I knew worked well and sent it for review I would WANT it to be tested. The sooner testing gets done and in the open the sooner people will want to get their hands on it. Then the day they are available for sale you might actually have customers waiting.

But then again I would not send a incompleted product to anyone. Whats the point? How many people base their buying decisions on a product that isn't complete or has any evidence it even works? Hummm, probably plenty I guess. One quick trip through Wal Mart and you see a bunch of garbage that should never have left the "prototype" stage that people are running around with in the carts waiting to be put in the credit card.

And there is Hyundi I guess for another example. Something that shoudn't even be considered a prototype yet and it is up for sale. Havn't seen a newer one yet with every light working!

Half assed products seem to be the norm anymore. Especially in software. "get it out the door now, who cares if it works, we can PATCH it with a 100meg download" that will take a week on dialup.

Christ I went to update WinXP on one of the computers at work and there were over 40 security updates. Over 100megs to download on 40K dialup. Took it home and used cable. How many don't have that option though...

Ok end of rant....

[Ion]

I actually thought of posting the news here myself, but I didn't. I know you got a really big problem with previews in these forums, but I mean, if you don't like them; don't read them.
Personally I think the TNN500A is one of the most interesting products coming up, now if YOU don't want more information than we got from Zalman's 3-page .pdf a couple of months ago, then don't _read_ it.

Yeah Joe, you seem like a clever guy.
Of course it's a commercial, we get paid by Zalman to write commercials of their products, but no, we didn't have their permission to do so. They paid us to do it, then they said no, and then we took our commercial-funded jet down there, broke in and stole their prototype.
Then we didn't acually test it, but rather stole their PR-pictures of it, the webcam you sent us didn't quite deliver the photos we wanted.
And ooooh no, of course you can't draw any conclusions from having a case in your home, installing your computer in it and using it. We actually got the conclusion from Zalman, without their permission, while getting paid.
The people on Zalman were happy with us afterwards because of our great commercial, but a little grumpy because we did so without their permission, while taking all their PR-money.
However, when FBI read your comments, they will probably hire you on the spot! Imagine that Joe! You will get to work with MULDER!

And yes, testing prototypes is worthless. I mean, in a few weeks, Zalman will think something like this: "Hmm, this big metal-mofo-thingies on the sides, they wheigh too much. Mr engineer, take them away and replace them with plastic decals! And wtf are these heatpipe-thingies? TAKE THEM AWAY! I DON'T WANT HEAT IN THE CASE!
What?! Feet? You can't have feet unless you have LEGS! Mr engineer, please add some legs there! And one more thing: What did you think when you decided not to use any FANS? ADD FANS IMMEDIATELY!
And also, the case will be cooler if we open it, so please remove the sidepanels. STUPID engineers, now we'll have to change the whole design before launching it!
Perhaps we should allow people to download parts from the net? Those legs will probably be rather heavy to download, but what do we care?"

If we ever do a preview again, I'll add a disclaimer saying something like: "It's a preview, read the title. If you can't handle it, please don't read it. We will not be held responsible for any harm your computers at work will suffer from our previews while using low speed connections".

I mean omg, where's the shame in admitting that this case is one of the hottest things manufactured by a company in a long while, checking the nice photos out and enjoy getting a little more info on it? Yes, we WILL be back with a full review, and yes, it WILL contain actual NUMBERS.
You probably won't find out when by reading the news here though.
Well, that's enough, I have to press the submit-button before my arms bloody fall off.

[Ion]

"Put up or Shut Up"?

...

[pHaestus]

Ion to be honest sometimes I get pretty tired of all the negative comments directed to other hardware review sites from this forum. You know why? Because I generally never READ other hardware review sites. I just assume that people here are being too hard on them. I also think it's kinda like making fun of retarded kids.

Then I'll go look up a product when I am considering buying it, and I will quickly be assaulted by a mix of popup ads, marketing spiel direct from the manufacturer, and page upon page of comments that are for the benefit of the product supplier and NOT the consumer. The vast majority of reviews on the internet are nothing more than PR pieces written so that the company gets their name out to readers. The few haphazardly collected (and not statistically significant) numbers posted there are not to objectively compare and test a product. Instead they serve to make a reviewer whose prime concern is "not saying anything that will piss off the people that gave me all this cool stuff mad" LOOK objective. In fact I will go so far as to say that most of the people reviewing cooling (what I do from time to time) do not have the equipment, the background, OR the ability to do so properly and objectively. The community of "experts" is really just mutual admiration society of people without a goddman clue about what they are doing all in a circle patting each other on the back and congratulating their cleverness. This is called "posting webnews" in the modern vernacular.

Is there anything wrong with running a website to get all sorts of free stuff? Hell no; I should have done the same thing and I'd be less goddamn argumentative all the time. But is there something wrong with taking a PR piece and parading it as something that interested consumers should read to base buying decisions upon? Damn right there is. I don't think most sites put their readers above their relationships with their manufacturers. Lots of known issues go unreported in reviews and not mentioned on websites ever. Caveat emptor should be the title tag on most reviews.

Look as long as you are satisfied with fluffing up mfgr PR people then by all means. But as long as you are posting previews after having a product for a few minutes (see the aquajoe review) and without giving ANY objective performance testing (this review) then don't expect me to take your site seriously.

[pHaestus]

Oh and since I am undoubtedly stirring shit up by speaking so frankly...

I can see it now that replies will be along the lines of "pH you are just jealous because manufacturers send us preview hardware and review stuff all the time and not you."

Actually jealously has nothing to do with it. If I had to classify my emotion on the topic, it would be disappointment that people in a unique position to inform consumers are not effectively doing so. And also disappointment that the community that I used to enjoy being a part of (I used to run a review site as well) has really become a sham.

[Starman97]

Dont forget... Bandwidth costs money, so does webhosting. Review sites use a lot of bandwidth, so there are big bills to pay.

Popup ads generate money. Buying your own equipment to review costs money.
If you get a reputation for favorably reviewing equipment, manufacturers will send you gear to review. If you slam everything you see, they wont.

So unless a site is run by someone with deep pockets who does it for fun, I'd expect a certain bit of favorable bias to the reviews. Deal with it.

[pHaestus]

I know a few things about paying for bandwidth and buying test equipment. Granted I am a bit of an oddball.

Your points boil down to "why should you expect objectivity?" Are people so shortsighted that they are bought off by a $100 banner ad or a $200 video card? Probably. And why not? We have seen the big hardware sites have secrets exposed like "cheating on benchmarks" and obvious bias, and yet their traffic INCREASES when it's exposed. So I guess the message that goes out to the newer sites is accurate: readers are stupid and promoting products for money pays the bills.

[TerraMex]

Just a post to support pH and Joe on this.

heck, "Prototype" preview -> worthless , no finished product
How to concluse from something not finished ? Must be BB2k calibrated eyes again.
And no hands on -> invalidades any conclusions that might be taken.
It looks to me as earsay. We can get the same as zalman's site.
Free pub is always good , eh ?

Just a few examples : (as far as i've seen)

http://www.dansdata.com (small site)

He has full support from auspcmarket , but has zero problems with finishing a review saying "this product sucks ass , dont buy it. "

http://www.anandtech.com (somewhat big site)

They get alot on advertising and support. Still they give negative reviews to alot of their advertisers (such as Intel , nVidia, Soltek,etc).

And honestly , I don't have to deal with it. I just stop visiting those sites , like Tom's . Or Rodney's ... everything there is a kick ass product...

[pHaestus]

Oh and here

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12617

is a good article about hardware sites vs mfgrs and how things often happen. Now when I see previews where reviewers arent allowed to post test results (this preview) and where mfgr comments are inserted after the reviewer is finished by editor (apparently the case with aquajoe review) then why WOULDN'T I be skeptical?

I am not trying to say that sites take money for writing good reviews. I have no evidence of such, and like to hope for the best. What I am saying is that the relationship between mfgr and site shouldn't be so buddy-buddy that a site won't say things like "this isn't worth the money" or "there are better solutions" or "don't buy this there's a problem" or "this product sucks donkley balls".

If I am considering dropping a sizeable percentage of my monthly paycheck on a Zalman case (I estimate MSRP at ~$1500CAD?) then it better be the BOMB when it gets to my house. Can I reach that conclusion from the Nordichardware preview? Maybe. Could I be disappointed when I got the case? Sure. Who benefitted? The reader (nope) or the mfgr (yep).

That's all that I am saying.

[Ion]

This is a preview of a prototype. That means: the distributor didn't want us to post any performance numbers since the first impression is what really affect peoples decisions the most. We could either had said "no we don't want to wait until we get the real thing to test, we want to run our tests on this prototype" and in this case, the distributor would have said: "fine, **** off then".

A preview is just what the name says, it's not a review, and it wouldn't be called a preview unless it was actually performed _before_ the actual product was finshed and released.
So, you can either take the early sample, or just the technology, and give the readers as much details as you can, as early as possible, or you can sit back and wait for the finished product before writing a full review.

If you had actually read the preview, or even the conclusion, perhaps you could show me where he asks you to run to a store and buy the thing. Oh? No that's right, he ****ing didn't.

In the conclusion, he concludes:

"The idea with a completely passive case is very good, and the realization is also very satisfying."

He also concludes: "It is definitly nothing for the ordinary man, the weight makes it ungainly for LAN parties and the gargantuan size makes it difficult to put away somewhere."

and

"The price is not suitable for everyone either, as it'll probably end up somewhere around €620 and €880 when the final product arrives."

That means: He likes the case, but it's heavy, large and expensive.
It also means Martin knows how it performs, and he probably have that in mind when liking the case, right?

Do you want performance numbers before making your own mind up? Yes, so do I. Wait for the review then and don't read the preview. It's as simple as that. We don't force you to read our previews, and we DO NOT ASK YOU TO BUY THE PRODUCT!

As we are enthusiasts and love new technology, we are really looking forward to seeing the true performance of the TNN500A. We are happy to give our readers the possibility of getting more info on the case, and no, we don't get to keep this case.

If you read this preview and think it's too positive, then you are free to:
1. stop reading.
2. get your own case and please inform us of all the things making it unworthy of your interest.
3. wait for the review and don't whine about the lack of performance numbers when dealing with a preview of a prototype. If we had performance tests and didn't use a prototype, then it wouldn't be a preview.

This preview contains covers both pros and cons of the case, and it's really obvious that a lot of you haven't read it. If you find PR in it, then please post a quote here. Otherwise, stop whining and move on please.

[pHaestus]

And you have made exactly my point. The reviewer puts as positive a light as possible on the statement "it's heavy, large and expensive" because it's a product that was sent by a sponsor. Is this mincing of words in the interest of the mfgr or consumer? Why would you not report temperatures and details when you have them? Once again in the interests of mfgr and not the reader. If you feel good about the way you treat your readers then carry on. I am just saying to the mildly interested third party it might look a little bit like Nordic hardware is one of the many sites that never met a product they didn't think was worthy of an award of some type. I honestly have only looked at your site 3 or 4 times though and can't really comment on that conclusively.

If my comments are so offensive to you then perhaps don't post things your site has done here asking for feedback. You WILL get it, and if you dont want to hear it then there will always be trouble. I don't regularly read your site and would refrain from ever doing so if people from your site didnt come here, put content in my face, and ask for opinions.

[Ion]

I am sorry if the preview wasn't negative enough for you. We minced the words? You find these sentences hard to understand:

"It is definitly nothing for the ordinary man, the weight makes it ungainly for LAN parties and the gargantuan size makes it difficult to put away somewhere."

and

"The price is not suitable for everyone either, as it'll probably end up somewhere around €620 and €880 when the final product arrives."

You realize that we are SWEDISH people? Still, we understand that perfectly.
Then again, we are talking about 25 Kg here, that is heavy, but it's not so heavy you have to use foul language. Same thing goes for the price, and yes, the size too.

I already explained why we couldn't post the numbers, didn't get it the first time? We couldn't post it since if we did, we wouldn't have gotten the preview at all.
I feel very good about the way we treat our readers. Obviously people are interested in the TNN500A, obviously we have provided more information with this preview than any other site, even though it's not a true review (that's also why it's called preview).

I have already explained more than enough. Don't like positive previews? Don't read previews. Ever read a negative preview? No? Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that previews are written about things the authors find interesting enough to write about. For example: nVidia's, ATi's, Intel's and AMD's new technology. Or perhaps a technology making a totally silent computer possible. That doesn't excite you? It excites me. You want to find cons? Fine, read our preview, you'll find them, just as you'll find pros. More pros than cons? Perhaps that's because the case is good?

So, when posting urls to new and interesting articles in these forums, it's the same thing as asking for unjustified whine from you guys? I posted the aquajoe, thought that you might be interested. I didn't post this one, even though I considered it. Why? Because you are not interested in new technology, you are interested in whining.
Call it feedback if you want to, but you're just whining about the fact that you want previews to be reviews. And that they will eventually be, just relax alright?

[TerraMex]

The only one whining here is you. I'm just the reader.

You could have set it as "news" with details about the product or a "work in progress" , with direct connection with Zalman. Nobody would have jumped on you like that (probably ).
Not as a nice add to zalman, refraining whatever else that you found out or really bad remarks. Presentation was the key here.

previewing an unfinished prototype -> waste of time.
where is the real thing ? It can be very different.

As far as i've seen, those are pictures from Zalman, same pictures from news sites, same camera , quality and colour work.
Did you actually seen the case, live ? Worked with it ? How about pictures YOU took ? And post those numbers you say you have. Even if to shut us up.

If you make assements based on non standard case (prototype)
or even pictures supplied from it , controlled information
then assumptions and "pros and cons" are based on thin air
how do we, the readers, should treat the article ? if all above is real
then you preview nothing. it's just an add with some remarks.

how do we NOT read it, if the written article is the issue, and not known to one that jumps in the thread ?
it's there , and is working both ways (pH hit the spot)
we have already read it, and these opinions are from reading it.
Take them as samples of your readers. learn from it.

[pHaestus]

Is he not your resident water cooling expert on the Nordic Hardware staff?

[Starman97]

If you want completely objective reviews with scientifically supportable results, you're going to have to pay for them.
Pay, Big $$$..

The closest you can come for general stuff is something like Consumer Reports.
and even they dont give the kind of results people expect here. The target market for things like water coolers and passive cooling systems is tiny compared to the thing CU reviews, like cars, washing machine and toasters.

So , you're going to have to deal with positive bias on free review sites. Set your expectations accordingly and cross check across multiple reviews to see if the results correlate.

As far as the Zalman case goes:
It's an interesting design exercise, it's not for the general PC owner, it's not for the overclocker. You're not going get bragging points for haveing the coolest die temperatures with it. You will be able to say you have the quietest PC,
although Mac Cube and G5 owners may challenge you on that. A preview is just that.. I dont expect real test results, just a few pictures of where things stand at this point.

[Ion]

"A preview is just that.. I dont expect real test results, just a few pictures of where things stand at this point."
Thank you!

TerraMex, I have given you no reason to doubt that the TNN500A was or still is in our hands, and I can't think of any way or reason for you to try to prove otherwise.
I searched zalman's site and didn't even find a word about the case, also, if you look at the pictures from this review and compare them to the pictures Martin used in his waterblock roundup you can see that they look the same, and that he even used the same electronic device to show the the mirror finish on the base.
If you feel like trying to make us look bad, you can at least try to back it up with some kind of reason or facts. It's hard for me to take you seriously.

[TerraMex]

> I have given you no reason to doubt that the TNN500A was or
> still is in our hands
[...]
> his waterblock roundup

Which of course, you're assuming i read it. I didn't. Don't assume ( can you post a direct link? saves time).

If that's true, i stand corrected.

>This is a preview of a prototype. That means: the distributor
>didn't want us to post any performance numbers since the first
>impression is what really affect peoples decisions the most.

Not me. I'm less shallow that that .

It is a prototype, an "unfinished product".
Has no validity, as it is not a real product available to the public, i cannot buy it if i want to. I take no conclusions as it is not the finished product.
My point on this stands. It looks more like an add than a preview.

Feedback was asked, I gave it. You dont have to like it , doesn't mean i'm right, but I am giving you my honest opinion. You can take this as personal as you want to.