Did you guys know you could hack into the AMD diode?

pHaestus · 08-02-2004, 01:23 PM

http://www.overclockers.com/tips1175/

Only 15 months after this

And years and years after PeterNorth posted how to do this on Hardforums...

Is an acknowledgement of the prior work of others too much to ask? Apparently.

Cptn. Foo Foo · 08-02-2004, 01:43 PM

Ya I read that article earlier and thought "ohh that's been done before."

Actually that was really only 1/2 an article as it only shows how to hook-up the wires and none of the testing and calibration.

pHaestus · 08-02-2004, 01:49 PM

Give them another 18 months or so?

pHaestus · 08-02-2004, 10:03 PM

Dug up this oldie but goodie (Jan 8 2002):

http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/revi...ode/index.php3

I have seen 3 or 4 diode reader articles on OCers but never seen my work linked ONCE in those articles. It's common courtesy really in my opinion.

DrMemory · 08-02-2004, 11:14 PM

AMD data sheet 24228.pdf initial release Oct. 2001, revision released Nov. 2001, "Methodologies for Measuring Temperatures on AMD Athlon (r) and AMD Duron (r) Processors"

pHaestus · 08-02-2004, 11:21 PM

And that article is properly referenced in my January 2002 article with a link to the AMD document. As prior good work SHOULD be.

KnightElite · 08-02-2004, 11:28 PM

Maybe they don't know about it? E-mail the author maybe?

pHaestus · 08-02-2004, 11:48 PM

Pretty sure the author was aware of my work; he posted here asking for my help

DrMemory · 08-02-2004, 11:48 PM

Only as a reference as to where the pins were to solder to. The article from AMD actually goes into a lot more detail than that and in fact lays out most of what appears in your entire first article. Your "pins to solder" reference is not a proper acknowledgement.

pHaestus · 08-03-2004, 01:26 AM

Well... The pins to solder to were all that I DID use that article for. I didn't at the time have either of the reference boards for diode reading or any specialized software. The diode reader was made from the maxim specs and from PeterNorth's explanation (both of which I CLEARLY cite and credit).

And my point was that it is common courtesy to cite other work you've read that influenced what you are doing now. I am not claiming that Graystar "ripped me off" or anything; just that it would have been nice for him to acknowledge that I was doing this sort of thing for quite some time. The bending of the CPU pins is actually a good solution to some problems I have been having with residual connections in the socket.

You apparently disagree with this DrMemory?

greenman100 · 08-03-2004, 01:37 PM

wow.

that is beyond rediculous

not that I'm a big fan of some of graystar's thoughts anyway

jaydee · 08-03-2004, 01:46 PM

And that's the problem with having a $100 prize for articles. To easy for anyone to copy someone else's work and collect...

pHaestus · 08-03-2004, 02:02 PM

No
Not saying I was "copied"
There is a good NEW idea there (bending the CPU pins)
Just saying that if I had written something like that I would have acknowledged the efforts of other people.

Maybe I should start submitting articles to OCers every month and use the $$ to pay for Procooling hosting?

lol

jaydee · 08-03-2004, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

No
Not saying I was "copied"
There is a good NEW idea there (bending the CPU pins)
Just saying that if I had written something like that I would have acknowledged the efforts of other people.

Maybe I should start submitting articles to OCers every month and use the $$ to pay for Procooling hosting?

lol

Everything in that article except maybe the pins has been well covered already. That was my point. Anyone can take dozen other rticles and combine them to make their own.

All he needed to do was reference an older article with his new additions and be done with it. No need to re-write history again.

So is this posible with a newer CPU? A-64?

pHaestus · 08-03-2004, 02:10 PM

2x as many pins and I don't know exactly where the diode pins are even placed. In principle yes but in practice um I dunno. Let me look at tech docs

pHaestus · 08-03-2004, 02:15 PM

Yes I could do this to Socket 754 or 939.

Someone wanna pay for a testbed upgrade though?

jaydee · 08-03-2004, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Yes I could do this to Socket 754 or 939.

Someone wanna pay for a testbed upgrade though?

Money can be found. The question is would it be worth it for you?

I was thinking I would do this someday but would rather it be something "new".

Although I got plenty of XP's laying around...

pHaestus · 08-03-2004, 04:05 PM

To my mind the $400CAD (I just looked into the local price of A64 and mobo) would be better spent on finishing up the die sim-based testbed. The "W" is always so flakey with real CPUs.

I DO like hte idea of testing both on a die sim and on a real system so that problems with mounting and designs that exploit secondary cooling can more properly be examined. People are eventually going to complain about the SocketA test system (someone was this last week in fact)

jaydee · 08-03-2004, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

To my mind the $400CAD (I just looked into the local price of A64 and mobo) would be better spent on finishing up the die sim-based testbed. The "W" is always so flakey with real CPUs.

I DO like hte idea of testing both on a die sim and on a real system so that problems with mounting and designs that exploit secondary cooling can more properly be examined. People are eventually going to complain about the SocketA test system (someone was this last week in fact)

Yeah the die sim should be priority #1.

Not sure what to think about those complaints. It is just not possible to test all die sizes. Not sure what they expect. There are probably 30 different die sizes over the last 2-3 years from AMD and Intel..

DrMemory · 08-03-2004, 06:49 PM

No, I'm saying that a reference to a prior article for use of a small part of that article and acknowledgement of prior work are not the same thing. Acknowledgement of prior work should be used when most of the original work was used as a base for the subsequent work (and stated as such in the acknowledgement).

The use of the evaluation kit and "specialized" software was of minor overall importance to the information presented in the AMD article which was: what kind of hardware was needed (right down to the IC manufacturer and family of ICs), and how to PROPERLY implement an extenal circuit to read the temperature diode. This was the prior work base of ALL subsequent articles, including yours (even if it was through Peter North). Using a reference circuit from the data sheet (or evaluation kit) hardly qualifies as original. The use of a Maxim chip that uses the SMbus as opposed to the evaluation kit, or some other Maxim chip that communicates using a different protocol is a useful idea, but far from original.

Since little if any of your prior work, at least little of what didn't show up in work prior to yours is actually used in the article, I don't see why you think your work should be referenced. The ones who did the work prior to your first article have a much better case.
If any of the information on testing and calibration from your 2003 article show up un-referenced in another article then you have a case.

pHaestus · 08-03-2004, 06:56 PM

Yea but by that logic I didn't invent using a water bath to calibrate thermometers and so also had no part in that.

Also FWIW the ICs PeterNorth and I used long ago weren't the same Maxim ICs used in the AMD doc.

But whatever I am sure you are right and Graystar had no idea that this same exact thing had been done by other people beforehand. COMPLETELY different thing he's doing there.

Etacovda · 08-03-2004, 07:22 PM

Oh jesus, i didnt even notice it was graystar, no wonder he didnt reference you after the (rightful) pummeling he got here.

Off topic /
anyone else getting that the front page doesnt refresh new posts?

BillA · 08-03-2004, 08:27 PM

an uninformed opinion, the very best kind
I see DM as being literally correct (w/o my digging into the timeline)
but I think I see pH asking why not a 'tip of the hat' to those that have gone before ?
- and it is NOT as if Greystar did not know of pH's work, at the least

simple courtesy, or perhaps generous courtesy
you're gonna suck wind pH, no courtesy or such from that Greystar character
I've had several exchanges with him and his recurring goal is to score a 'win'
this article is in keeping with what I know of his nature
bootstrapping

but I did like the wiring method

pHaestus · 08-03-2004, 09:03 PM

yea I especially like the fact that it would be quite possible for newer AMD chips too (socket 754 and 939)

08-02-2004, 01:49 PM	#3
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Give them another 18 months or so? __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-02-2004, 10:03 PM	#4
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Dug up this oldie but goodie (Jan 8 2002): http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/revi...ode/index.php3 I have seen 3 or 4 diode reader articles on OCers but never seen my work linked ONCE in those articles. It's common courtesy really in my opinion. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-02-2004, 11:21 PM	#6
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	And that article is properly referenced in my January 2002 article with a link to the AMD document. As prior good work SHOULD be. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-02-2004, 11:28 PM	#7
KnightElite Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Posts: 294	Maybe they don't know about it? E-mail the author maybe? __________________ Can anyone else here say that they have a watercooled monster that's 45" tall?

08-02-2004, 11:48 PM	#8
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Pretty sure the author was aware of my work; he posted here asking for my help __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-02-2004, 01:23 PM	#1
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Did you guys know you could hack into the AMD diode? http://www.overclockers.com/tips1175/ Only 15 months after this And years and years after PeterNorth posted how to do this on Hardforums... Is an acknowledgement of the prior work of others too much to ask? Apparently. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM Last edited by pHaestus; 08-02-2004 at 01:29 PM.

08-02-2004, 01:43 PM	#2
Cptn. Foo Foo Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 95	Ya I read that article earlier and thought "ohh that's been done before." Actually that was really only 1/2 an article as it only shows how to hook-up the wires and none of the testing and calibration.

08-02-2004, 11:14 PM	#5
DrMemory Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 101	AMD data sheet 24228.pdf initial release Oct. 2001, revision released Nov. 2001, "Methodologies for Measuring Temperatures on AMD Athlon (r) and AMD Duron (r) Processors"

08-03-2004, 01:26 AM	#10
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Well... The pins to solder to were all that I DID use that article for. I didn't at the time have either of the reference boards for diode reading or any specialized software. The diode reader was made from the maxim specs and from PeterNorth's explanation (both of which I CLEARLY cite and credit). And my point was that it is common courtesy to cite other work you've read that influenced what you are doing now. I am not claiming that Graystar "ripped me off" or anything; just that it would have been nice for him to acknowledge that I was doing this sort of thing for quite some time. The bending of the CPU pins is actually a good solution to some problems I have been having with residual connections in the socket. You apparently disagree with this DrMemory? __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-03-2004, 01:37 PM	#11
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	wow. that is beyond rediculous not that I'm a big fan of some of graystar's thoughts anyway __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

08-03-2004, 01:46 PM	#12
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	And that's the problem with having a $100 prize for articles. To easy for anyone to copy someone else's work and collect...

08-03-2004, 02:02 PM	#13
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	No Not saying I was "copied" There is a good NEW idea there (bending the CPU pins) Just saying that if I had written something like that I would have acknowledged the efforts of other people. Maybe I should start submitting articles to OCers every month and use the $$ to pay for Procooling hosting? lol __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-03-2004, 02:10 PM	#15
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	2x as many pins and I don't know exactly where the diode pins are even placed. In principle yes but in practice um I dunno. Let me look at tech docs __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-03-2004, 02:15 PM	#16
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Yes I could do this to Socket 754 or 939. Someone wanna pay for a testbed upgrade though? __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-03-2004, 04:05 PM	#18
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	To my mind the $400CAD (I just looked into the local price of A64 and mobo) would be better spent on finishing up the die sim-based testbed. The "W" is always so flakey with real CPUs. I DO like hte idea of testing both on a die sim and on a real system so that problems with mounting and designs that exploit secondary cooling can more properly be examined. People are eventually going to complain about the SocketA test system (someone was this last week in fact) __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-03-2004, 06:49 PM	#20
DrMemory Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 101	No, I'm saying that a reference to a prior article for use of a small part of that article and acknowledgement of prior work are not the same thing. Acknowledgement of prior work should be used when most of the original work was used as a base for the subsequent work (and stated as such in the acknowledgement). The use of the evaluation kit and "specialized" software was of minor overall importance to the information presented in the AMD article which was: what kind of hardware was needed (right down to the IC manufacturer and family of ICs), and how to PROPERLY implement an extenal circuit to read the temperature diode. This was the prior work base of ALL subsequent articles, including yours (even if it was through Peter North). Using a reference circuit from the data sheet (or evaluation kit) hardly qualifies as original. The use of a Maxim chip that uses the SMbus as opposed to the evaluation kit, or some other Maxim chip that communicates using a different protocol is a useful idea, but far from original. Since little if any of your prior work, at least little of what didn't show up in work prior to yours is actually used in the article, I don't see why you think your work should be referenced. The ones who did the work prior to your first article have a much better case. If any of the information on testing and calibration from your 2003 article show up un-referenced in another article then you have a case.

08-03-2004, 06:56 PM	#21
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Yea but by that logic I didn't invent using a water bath to calibrate thermometers and so also had no part in that. Also FWIW the ICs PeterNorth and I used long ago weren't the same Maxim ICs used in the AMD doc. But whatever I am sure you are right and Graystar had no idea that this same exact thing had been done by other people beforehand. COMPLETELY different thing he's doing there. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM Last edited by pHaestus; 08-03-2004 at 07:02 PM.

08-03-2004, 07:22 PM	#22
Etacovda Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dunedin NZ Posts: 735	Oh jesus, i didnt even notice it was graystar, no wonder he didnt reference you after the (rightful) pummeling he got here. Off topic / anyone else getting that the front page doesnt refresh new posts?

08-03-2004, 08:27 PM	#23
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	an uninformed opinion, the very best kind I see DM as being literally correct (w/o my digging into the timeline) but I think I see pH asking why not a 'tip of the hat' to those that have gone before ? - and it is NOT as if Greystar did not know of pH's work, at the least simple courtesy, or perhaps generous courtesy you're gonna suck wind pH, no courtesy or such from that Greystar character I've had several exchanges with him and his recurring goal is to score a 'win' this article is in keeping with what I know of his nature bootstrapping but I did like the wiring method

08-03-2004, 09:03 PM	#24
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	yea I especially like the fact that it would be quite possible for newer AMD chips too (socket 754 and 939) __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

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