Custom Silver Waterblock

BalefireX · 07-06-2004, 05:49 PM

In exchange for some computer parts and labor, a friend of mine has recieved a 4"x3"x1" block of 99.999 silver from a coin dealer. Of course, he wants to make waterblocks out of it. He has pretty much everything he needs (a friendly machinist and his own acrylic cutting laser for making tops/midplates) apart from a firm design.

We are assuming that we can make 4 waterblocks out of the block (at approx 3"x2"x0.5" each) so we could do some experimentation, but what with the cost of silver, we'd rather not have "throwaway blocks" and would rather make a little back on the investment in machining time if we can come up with a good design.

We've obviously considered the simpler designs, such as making a Whitewater clone, as that would be relatively easy to make, but as good a performer as that is, just copying it isnt very satisfying, nor am I in love with dual outlets.

So I put the question to you: what would you do? We're looking to cool a P4/AMD64 with the IHS at a reasonably high pressure/flow rate. Is there a better (oh how subjective a word) design for this application? Do the properties of silver lend themselves towards one design more than another? Is there anything we should look out for? (poor machinability, etc)

As always all comments, insights, flames, insults, personal abuse, and death threats are greatly appreciated.

firtol88 · 07-06-2004, 06:04 PM

To start with I would make eight 1.5 x 2 x 0.5" blocks and instead of wasting that silver I would go to Online Metals and order some copper to use for prototypes.

As for WB design that would depend on the methods at your disposal.

BalefireX · 07-06-2004, 06:19 PM

right. Eight 1.5 x 2 x 0.5" does seem like a more sensible option (and a better way to end up with a couple to sell, maybe one for pH to test etc)

As for methods at our disposal: My friend is an acrylic god

and pretty much anything that can be laser cut is possible for top plates, within some reason, of course. We're looking at getting the bases professionally CNCed, so again, pretty much anything is possible within reason. Would rather not go super-complex and attempt to make a Cascade SS ripoff, due to the extreme # of prototypes and testing required to get the desired result (unless Cathar wants to make a friend for life and share his specifications

) but again, most designs are possible - was just wondering if anyone had a special "silver optimized" design or something of the like - Ben's Radius block is interesting, but it seems that someone else is working on that, and it would require seriously hardcore machining and lots of silver.

EDIT: Just had a thought - 1.5"x2"x0.5" = 38.1x50.8x12.7mm take a mm off each edge, for cutting waste, and you're looking at 36x48x11mm or so. That means that it will cover a full P4 IHS (31x31mm) but there will be a mm of exposed edge on each side of an Athlon 64 IHS (38x38mm)

Is this mm of exposed edge a concern? I'm not worried about crushing the core due to the IHS, and I believe that the heat shouldnt spread all that much to the very edge of the IHS if its being cooled in the center over the die, but I thought it was worth bringing up.

BalefireX · 07-06-2004, 09:16 PM

On second thought, unless someone can think of a way to get sufficient die coverage, get an O-ring in, and still get a good design, I'm going to have throw out the idea for making 8 blocks... seems like 4 or 6 is more of a realistic goal. I have attached a concept for a WW/Lumpychannel combo, with the IHS and die sizes imposed on it. We would be able to get 6 of this size out of the silver we have. Any opinions? Would we be better off going with the straight whitewater channels? How thick of a base should we aim for?

On a side note, does anyone know how wide a block has to be to make good contact with the pads on an AMD XP chip? Probably won't be using this on an AXP, but its possible.

bigben2k · 07-06-2004, 09:21 PM

Do the simple thing: sell them.

(I've got a prototype I'd consider running in silver)

JFettig · 07-06-2004, 09:25 PM

to be honest with ya, you would be better off keeping it or selling it. the performance gain from copper to silver is almost not measurable, then when you have a design that you dont know is that great what would you gain becides the cool factor?

I honestly wouldnt mess with it.

Jon

BalefireX · 07-06-2004, 09:51 PM

You guys are logically correct... it would be better for my friend to either sell or keep the silver... however, despite its real "value" it doesn't have a huge value to him (before I talked to him he was happy to make just one waterblock out of the huge bar) because he got it in trade for some computer gear he had laying around. Its a strange case, but to him, its almost easier to make it in silver than to go through the hassle of selling the bar and buying copper stock, plus he loses the "bling" factor that he's excited about. I suppose its the same reason that people are willing to spend so much more on a Cascade SS despite its relatively moderate gains over a much cheaper MCW6000.

I posted this here is because I thought this would be the best place to "troll" for a design; I know there are lots of "garage" designers here, many of whom don't have the tools or capital to play with silver waterblocks. My friend really just wants a cool waterblock out of this, preferably one with impressive performance, but I thought this might be a nice way for someone with an good idea to produce it in silver.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what the value of the silver is - my friend was told the block was cast from two 10oz .999 silver ingots, nor do I know if he is interested in selling it - my understanding from what we discussed is that he wanted a block for himself, and then would consider selling other blocks to cover the machining costs.

I will suggest that he sell/keep the silver, but if as chances are, he says no, any ideas on what to do?

Cathar · 07-06-2004, 10:56 PM

Hmmm, the size of the block is somewhat awkward to work with.

In terms of it raw value, it's worth around about the US$430 mark on the metals market at today's market rate. Silver's raw market price is around US$6/ounce. You have pretty much bang on 2kg of silver there. 2000/28 * 6 ~= $430US. However, very few people can ever buy silver at the raw "market price". Typically it'll cost around 1.5x that much to source silver at the consumer level (including for small businesses).

The problem is its thickness. Would like to cut it down into 5mm thick pieces of 2" x 3" in size, which would be ideal for a Cascade SS. You could get 10 pieces out of it, but you can't cut metal without sacrificing around 1-2mm of it in the cut, and since you're trying to take a cut across the widest area, you'd lose a lot with each cut. It'd almost be cheaper (in terms of trading off against the lost material due to cutting) to get it melted down into appropriately sized ingots, and I would possibly suggest that as a valid course of action.

JFettig · 07-07-2004, 06:43 AM

dangit stew, I was gonna offer him $100 for it

Jon

buzzby · 07-07-2004, 06:51 PM

OMG that much silver must be worth a fortune. Sell the block and make water blocks out of copper.

Silver isn't that much better at heat conduction than copper. Not enought to justify the price difference.

pauldenton · 07-08-2004, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

Hmmm, the size of the block is somewhat awkward to work with.

In terms of it raw value, it's worth around about the US$430 mark on the metals market at today's market rate. Silver's raw market price is around US$6/ounce. You have pretty much bang on 2kg of silver there. 2000/28 * 6 ~= $430US. However, very few people can ever buy silver at the raw "market price". Typically it'll cost around 1.5x that much to source silver at the consumer level (including for small businesses).

The problem is its thickness. Would like to cut it down into 5mm thick pieces of 2" x 3" in size, which would be ideal for a Cascade SS. You could get 10 pieces out of it, but you can't cut metal without sacrificing around 1-2mm of it in the cut, and since you're trying to take a cut across the widest area, you'd lose a lot with each cut. It'd almost be cheaper (in terms of trading off against the lost material due to cutting) to get it melted down into appropriately sized ingots, and I would possibly suggest that as a valid course of action.

isn't it priced in Troy ounces? (31.1035grams)
http://www.platinum.matthey.com/info/1053436512.html

07-06-2004, 05:49 PM	#1
BalefireX Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 269	Custom Silver Waterblock In exchange for some computer parts and labor, a friend of mine has recieved a 4"x3"x1" block of 99.999 silver from a coin dealer. Of course, he wants to make waterblocks out of it. He has pretty much everything he needs (a friendly machinist and his own acrylic cutting laser for making tops/midplates) apart from a firm design. We are assuming that we can make 4 waterblocks out of the block (at approx 3"x2"x0.5" each) so we could do some experimentation, but what with the cost of silver, we'd rather not have "throwaway blocks" and would rather make a little back on the investment in machining time if we can come up with a good design. We've obviously considered the simpler designs, such as making a Whitewater clone, as that would be relatively easy to make, but as good a performer as that is, just copying it isnt very satisfying, nor am I in love with dual outlets. So I put the question to you: what would you do? We're looking to cool a P4/AMD64 with the IHS at a reasonably high pressure/flow rate. Is there a better (oh how subjective a word) design for this application? Do the properties of silver lend themselves towards one design more than another? Is there anything we should look out for? (poor machinability, etc) As always all comments, insights, flames, insults, personal abuse, and death threats are greatly appreciated. __________________ If not, why not?

07-06-2004, 06:04 PM	#2
firtol88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: BRLA Posts: 151	To start with I would make eight 1.5 x 2 x 0.5" blocks and instead of wasting that silver I would go to Online Metals and order some copper to use for prototypes. As for WB design that would depend on the methods at your disposal. __________________ - - In this corner representing the democrats... Flipper

07-06-2004, 06:19 PM	#3
BalefireX Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 269	right. Eight 1.5 x 2 x 0.5" does seem like a more sensible option (and a better way to end up with a couple to sell, maybe one for pH to test etc) As for methods at our disposal: My friend is an acrylic god and pretty much anything that can be laser cut is possible for top plates, within some reason, of course. We're looking at getting the bases professionally CNCed, so again, pretty much anything is possible within reason. Would rather not go super-complex and attempt to make a Cascade SS ripoff, due to the extreme # of prototypes and testing required to get the desired result (unless Cathar wants to make a friend for life and share his specifications ) but again, most designs are possible - was just wondering if anyone had a special "silver optimized" design or something of the like - Ben's Radius block is interesting, but it seems that someone else is working on that, and it would require seriously hardcore machining and lots of silver. EDIT: Just had a thought - 1.5"x2"x0.5" = 38.1x50.8x12.7mm take a mm off each edge, for cutting waste, and you're looking at 36x48x11mm or so. That means that it will cover a full P4 IHS (31x31mm) but there will be a mm of exposed edge on each side of an Athlon 64 IHS (38x38mm) Is this mm of exposed edge a concern? I'm not worried about crushing the core due to the IHS, and I believe that the heat shouldnt spread all that much to the very edge of the IHS if its being cooled in the center over the die, but I thought it was worth bringing up. __________________ If not, why not? Last edited by BalefireX; 07-06-2004 at 06:40 PM.

07-06-2004, 09:21 PM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Do the simple thing: sell them. (I've got a prototype I'd consider running in silver) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-06-2004, 09:51 PM	#7
BalefireX Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 269	You guys are logically correct... it would be better for my friend to either sell or keep the silver... however, despite its real "value" it doesn't have a huge value to him (before I talked to him he was happy to make just one waterblock out of the huge bar) because he got it in trade for some computer gear he had laying around. Its a strange case, but to him, its almost easier to make it in silver than to go through the hassle of selling the bar and buying copper stock, plus he loses the "bling" factor that he's excited about. I suppose its the same reason that people are willing to spend so much more on a Cascade SS despite its relatively moderate gains over a much cheaper MCW6000. I posted this here is because I thought this would be the best place to "troll" for a design; I know there are lots of "garage" designers here, many of whom don't have the tools or capital to play with silver waterblocks. My friend really just wants a cool waterblock out of this, preferably one with impressive performance, but I thought this might be a nice way for someone with an good idea to produce it in silver. To be honest, I'm not quite sure what the value of the silver is - my friend was told the block was cast from two 10oz .999 silver ingots, nor do I know if he is interested in selling it - my understanding from what we discussed is that he wanted a block for himself, and then would consider selling other blocks to cover the machining costs. I will suggest that he sell/keep the silver, but if as chances are, he says no, any ideas on what to do? __________________ If not, why not?

07-06-2004, 09:25 PM	#6
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	to be honest with ya, you would be better off keeping it or selling it. the performance gain from copper to silver is almost not measurable, then when you have a design that you dont know is that great what would you gain becides the cool factor? I honestly wouldnt mess with it. Jon

07-06-2004, 10:56 PM	#8
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Hmmm, the size of the block is somewhat awkward to work with. In terms of it raw value, it's worth around about the US$430 mark on the metals market at today's market rate. Silver's raw market price is around US$6/ounce. You have pretty much bang on 2kg of silver there. 2000/28 * 6 ~= $430US. However, very few people can ever buy silver at the raw "market price". Typically it'll cost around 1.5x that much to source silver at the consumer level (including for small businesses). The problem is its thickness. Would like to cut it down into 5mm thick pieces of 2" x 3" in size, which would be ideal for a Cascade SS. You could get 10 pieces out of it, but you can't cut metal without sacrificing around 1-2mm of it in the cut, and since you're trying to take a cut across the widest area, you'd lose a lot with each cut. It'd almost be cheaper (in terms of trading off against the lost material due to cutting) to get it melted down into appropriately sized ingots, and I would possibly suggest that as a valid course of action. Last edited by Cathar; 07-07-2004 at 07:04 AM.

07-07-2004, 06:43 AM	#9
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	dangit stew, I was gonna offer him $100 for it Jon

07-07-2004, 06:51 PM	#10
buzzby Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: at home Posts: 35	OMG that much silver must be worth a fortune. Sell the block and make water blocks out of copper. Silver isn't that much better at heat conduction than copper. Not enought to justify the price difference.

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