(follow up) Would you be willing to cut into your CPU socket?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Roady
i'd cut up my zif (is it zif or ziff?) socket, but being a modder i'm not afraid of plastic

i'm new and only read 4-5 posts through but shall be on a catchup mission tonight, excellent content so far guys!

Yeah, welcome to procooling. Nice to see new members with this attitude. I used a dremel on my Abit KD7 with the metal deburing bit and just cut a groove into the socket. Didn't bother to even pop the socket apart. You have to be carefull and try to just get the top layer of the socket. The less into the main bottom layer the better. Those sockets are not as strong as they look. They cut like a hot knife through butter. Have to go slow.

[Nuson]

wow jd, ben, among others, do not like chopping their sockets; must be noobs right? They should not post of THIS forum; they're not "pro" enough... (all sarcasm, just so no one else gets offended)

And I do not know how anyone feels about toms or hardocp jd. I wouldn't know that because I'm a noob; no wait, you've already knew that because you enjoy rubbing it in my face. What's your beef with them anyways? Just because their sites get more hits than this one? I guess that means they've sold out... or that they're that good.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Nuson
wow jd, ben, among others, do not like chopping their sockets; must be noobs right? They should not post of THIS forum; they're not "pro" enough... (all sarcasm, just so no one else gets offended)

And I do not know how anyone feels about toms or hardocp jd. I wouldn't know that because I'm a noob; no wait, you've already knew that because you enjoy rubbing it in my face. What's your beef with them anyways? Just because their sites get more hits than this one? I guess that means they've sold out... or that they're that good.

Need I say more guys?

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by jaydee116
Need I say more guys?

Hey JD, do you think that my french Canadian english is that hard to understand?

I thought I made it clear that chopping up half of the whole socket isn't wise.

As for [H] and Tom's...:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ghlight=ardocp

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ghlight=ardocp

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ghlight=ardocp

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ghlight=ardocp

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ghlight=ardocp

and that's just for starters.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k


I thought I made it clear that chopping up half of the whole socket isn't wise.

Point being?

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by jaydee116
Point being?

Oh I was just commenting on this:

Originally posted by Nuson
wow jd, ben, among others, do not like chopping their sockets; must be noobs right?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Oh I was just commenting on this:

Oh ok, you quoted me with that response so I thought it was meant towards me...

But I have to say, by that logic nothing we do on this site is wise. Is hacking up power supplies and merging them into the drive bays wise? Is volt modding a mobo wise? is soldering wires to the pins on a CPU for true on die temp readings wise? is spending countless days designing a water block wise? is modding a 12V pump with extra parts wise? ect...ect.... If you think this is not wise and not worth doing then move on! (not saying this is you ben) That stuff is what separates this site from your average tech site. We do the shit other don't want to do! If you want to keep your warranty over doing something that will be more accurate and benefit your rhetoric with usable info then go somewhere else and spam your shit. Plenty of places promote ignorance and encourage it. I feel this is not one of them. Until a mod or admin tells me making people feel good about themselfs and their BS is going to be put ahead of quality information from quality members (as just about every other site is setup to do) then I will shut up and move on myself.

There is a reason why this site doesn't have a lot of newbs spamming their crap and that is because they know they are not going to get away with it here (at least the smarter ones). If we loose that edge we loose the sites integrity and intelligence. Just as Toms has done, just as [H] has done, just as overclockers has done, just as amdmb has done, and the list is continues.....

[bigben2k]

Right on.

ProCooling is the only site I know that addresses water cooling seriously, and extensively. Voiding a warranty just comes with the territory, but nothing suggested is intended for people who just don't understand the risks. All risks are assumed to be taken by each individual, with a reasonable level of understanding of them, and the necessary precautions.

(BTW, I wouldn't knock AMDMB just yet. I'd rather think of it as "in the early stages", but kinda stalled there. )

To stay on topic... I like the way this poll is turning out. It's almost 50-50, so an alternative is a must, in the presentation. There's no sense in pushing a risk that half the people aren't willing to take.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Right on.

ProCooling is the only site I know that addresses water cooling seriously, and extensively. Voiding a warranty just comes with the territory, but nothing suggested is intended for people who just don't understand the risks. All risks are assumed to be taken by each individual, with a reasonable level of understanding of them, and the necessary precautions.

(BTW, I wouldn't knock AMDMB just yet. I'd rather think of it as "in the early stages", but kinda stalled there. )

To stay on topic... I like the way this poll is turning out. It's almost 50-50, so an alternative is a must, in the presentation. There's no sense in pushing a risk that half the people aren't willing to take.

I been a member at amdmb for 3 years almost since it started. They had 1,000 members when I joined up and I have well over 6,000 posts now. I know how it is going over there. It went down fast in the last year and is still headed into the pits of uselessness. Everyday is just another step down stairs..... Thats the way they want it. Dumb new members to click on all the fancy ads they keep adding.

But anyway what else is there? One can mess with the tiny wires but will the 50% not willing to cut the socket be willing/able to do the wires and do it well enough for anything resembling quality results? What else is there that is simple and idiot proof enough for the crowd your aiming this thread at?

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by jaydee116
But anyway what else is there? One can mess with the tiny wires but will the 50% not willing to cut the socket be willing/able to do the wires and do it well enough for anything resembling quality results? What else is there that is simple and idiot proof enough for the crowd your aiming this thread at?

Given the polls, I have to present an alternative. Wether it's an acceptable risk, ability or not, I'm going to leave that to the user: it's not an easy mod, but the benefits are significant.

Keep in mind that the mobo doesn't need to be the greatest and latest: as long as it runs CPUBurn, and a hot CPU, that's all that's needed. Easy spare parts.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Given the polls, I have to present an alternative. Wether it's an acceptable risk, ability or not, I'm going to leave that to the user: it's not an easy mod, but the benefits are significant.

Keep in mind that the mobo doesn't need to be the greatest and latest: as long as it runs CPUBurn, and a hot CPU, that's all that's needed. Easy spare parts.

So I assume you already have this figured out and are working on a write up about it or something? PM me if you want to keep it a secrete for now. I might just try it myself.

[bigben2k]

I don't have anything that hasn't been posted already, at least in concept. I just have to do it, take pics, and write it up.

BTW, it looks like the wife and I are buying a house, and I'll get to use half the double-garage as a shop/office. A little insulation here, plaster there, and oh yeah, an AC unit!

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k
I don't have anything that hasn't been posted already, at least in concept. I just have to do it, take pics, and write it up.

In this thread or other threads? I know of other ways to go but I am not sure which you speak of.

BTW, it looks like the wife and I are buying a house, and I'll get to use half the double-garage as a shop/office. A little insulation here, plaster there, and oh yeah, an AC unit!

It is good to have a a garage where you can go to get away from reality (errr...the old lady) and relax a bit. Might consider a bed, TV (tv tuner in the comp will do), and a fridge aswell. That way when the wife gets pissed you got a place to retreat to.

[bigben2k]

(I had to read back, a bit!)

I was referring to Crane's idea of running an enamel wire, to stick a thermocouple behind the CPU.

The key point was brought up by pHaestus:

thermocouples are ok if type T but the K series are not so great. Take a look at that article I posted in my worklog a week or so ago for guidance on choosing a temperature probe.

(anyone got a link to it?:shrug: )
(edit: maybe here?: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...0&pagenumber=4 )

There's also Since87's critical point:

The ONLY way to eliminate error with thermistors resulting from lead length, is to use a four wire (Kelvin) connection, where one pair of wires is carrying the current for the thermistor and another pair of wires brings out the voltage across the thermistor.

A four wire connection using 40 gauge wire, is likely to be better than a two wire connection using 24 gauge wire. Of course this doesn't do much for you if you are hooking up to something with no provisions for four wire readings...

Is such a device available for a reasonable price?:shrug:

[Nuson]

So, do you guys rip on maximumpc too?

I don't know how this became ancient history so fast:

quote from myself:
wow jd, ben, among others, do not like chopping their sockets; must be noobs right? They should not post of THIS forum; they're not "pro" enough...

Ben, I did understand what you said about being unwise to chop a socket. This whole paragraph was sarcasm directed at jd (as I mentioned in parenthasis). He's saying those who have reserve for chopping their socket don't belong here, yet you, a highly respected member, understand perfectly. I just wish he wouldn't try to represent this whole forum in saying certain peps don't belong here

[RoboTech]

Originally posted by bigben2k
(BTW, I wouldn't knock AMDMB just yet... )

Thanks Ben...

One of my favorite thermocouples for CPU testing is Omega #5TC-TT-K-30-36-SMP-M. They are available in J,K,T and E types, are 0.010" in diameter, and have 36" long 30 AWG Teflon coated leads (36 AWG leads are also available). I usually use the type-K but type-T are also available if you prefer. The -SMP-M designates a pre-wired miniature connector on the end. They cost $44 for a pack of 5 plus $25 to have the connectors mounted.

FWIW I use a jewelers saw to cut a narrow slot into the top of the CPU socket (edit) and Arctic Alumina epoxy (electrically non-conductive) to attach thermocouples to the CPU backside and/or core.

[Since87]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Is such a device available for a reasonable price?:shrug:

I missed this post. I was on vacation that week.

I suppose it depend on what a reasonable price is.

Something crude but accurate could be built for less than $30.

A more practical option for most would probably be to buy a multimeter with a 4-wire ohms function. They are not uncommon.

[pHaestus]

nuson:

You claim to understand sarcasm, and yet...

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by RoboTech
Thanks Ben...

One of my favorite thermocouples for CPU testing is Omega #5TC-TT-K-30-36-SMP-M. They are available in J,K,T and E types, are 0.010" in diameter, and have 36" long 30 AWG Teflon coated leads (36 AWG leads are also available). I usually use the type-K but type-T are also available if you prefer. The -SMP-M designates a pre-wired miniature connector on the end. They cost $44 for a pack of 5 plus $25 to have the connectors mounted.

FWIW I use a jewelers saw to cut a narrow slot into the top of the CPU socket (edit) and Arctic Alumina epoxy (electrically non-conductive) to attach thermocouples to the CPU backside and/or core.

Good tips, thanks, and you're welcome.

I think I'm ready to take the plunge with this, but hold, pending funds. I'm getting a bunch of requests for testing, and I'm nowhere near ready to do it. Do you still have a source for those heaters?

I'll try out the Omega T type, as per pHaestus' recomendation.

Originally posted by Since87
...

Something crude but accurate could be built for less than $30.

A more practical option for most would probably be to buy a multimeter with a 4-wire ohms function. They are not uncommon.

I like that idea, thank you for that tip!

[pHaestus]

wait.

Ben are you getting into the testing business? I have some wbs to send you

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Do you still have a source for those heaters?

If your considering making a die sim I will send you the ones he sent me and the slugg I made. I think I have all but given up on it. I am finding pretty good consistancy with the TC under the CPU route. Good enough for what I need it to do.

[bigben2k]

You have PM (shortly).

[Scrizt]

Okay, if you are worried about 0.5 mm extra length of the CPU pins, why dont you remove the socket entierly and cut the legs shorter and mount it directly onboard?
you would save 5 mm or so..

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Scrizt
Okay, if you are worried about 0.5 mm extra length of the CPU pins, why dont you remove the socket entierly and cut the legs shorter and mount it directly onboard?
you would save 5 mm or so..

I assume your not serious?

[RoboTech]

Originally posted by pHaestus
thermocouples are ok if type T but the K series are not so great. Take a look at that article I posted in my worklog a week or so ago for guidance on choosing a temperature probe.

I have searched thruogh your work logs pH and the only article I found that appeared pertinent was the "Microchip AN679" pdf (good overview of available technologies) but I didn't see any discussion about type T vs. other thermocouple types, other than a comparison chart and response curve... ? If I'm missing something here, please enlighten me.

Can anyone point me to the article or thread where the advantages of type T thermocouples are discussed. Based on temp range, cost and response curve; type K thermocouples are by far the most widely used in the automation and control industry. I am curious to learn how other types of TCs offer advantages to the PC enthusiast, over the standard type K.

Thanks in advance...