2 DDC Failures within 2 weeks?

Andrus · 05-21-2005, 03:58 PM

I RMA'd one DDC pump back to Danger Den last week and recieved my new one. Well, it's dead as well... after only about 10 hours of operation. Have I recieved two lemon pumps or is something else going on. I'm using only distilled water and no additives. Also I'm using it in a closed loop. (or was) I'm going to get in touch with Danger Den and see about RMA'ing this pump again, I like it for the size, however if they are just going to keep dieing I suppose I'll trade it in on a D4. Any help would be appreciated!!!

-Andy

JSimmons · 05-21-2005, 07:23 PM

Are you it at 12v or are you volting it up to 13?

Andrus · 05-21-2005, 09:17 PM

asus probe reads at 12.36, however, I know onboard voltage monitors most likely aren't exactly what it should be. I should check it with a volt meter. I haven't actually "tried" to run it at a higher voltage tho. Maybe I should lower the pots on the back of my PSU to get closer to 12. Would that cause two pumps to die within about 10 hours tho? The rpm's on the pump were always running around 3600. Not sure if that's fast or slow as I have no baseline. I'll try to test the voltage with a volt meter tomorrow. As for right now though, I guess I have a dead pump?

-Andy

HammerSandwich · 05-22-2005, 01:21 AM

Did the pumps simply stop running? Refuse to start? Any funny noises?

JSimmons · 05-22-2005, 06:42 AM

I was just wondering if you were volting it up (some people do that to get more flow).

If you have the room, I'd consider a D4 unless you want to give the DDC one more shot. Like you said, the size makes it a pretty good choice for a lot of people, and besides, there are many of them out there that are working just fine.

For grins, what kind of PSU are you using, and are you hooing it up to a UPS unit?

Andrus · 05-22-2005, 08:27 AM

It didn't make any funny noises or anything, It just didn't start when I turned my computer on. The only reason I know it didn't start is I had the RPM lead hooked up to the PSU monitor on the mobo and the alarm went off as soon as windows loaded. The PSU I'm using is a OCZ powerstream. I just can't believe that I could have recieved two bad pumps.

-Andy

Cathar · 05-22-2005, 08:34 AM

So you physically verified that the pump had failed, and not that the RPM sensor or mobo sensor header is faulty?

generik · 05-22-2005, 08:43 AM

Maybe DD sent you the same pump that you "RMAed"

killernoodle · 05-22-2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

So you physically verified that the pump had failed, and not that the RPM sensor or mobo sensor header is faulty?

I was thinking the same thing.

If your computer didnt immediately start to overheat, thenyour pump didnt die. Check the temps and see if the pump is vibrating when it reads 0 rpms.

JSimmons · 05-22-2005, 09:26 AM

If the pump vibrates, it's probably working (I guess a visible flow meter *is* a benefit). Could it be that your waternblock isn't seated correctly?

DG · 05-22-2005, 12:22 PM

I am new too this forum but not too this issue.
I have found many other links to people with same problem as yours.

For example
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=19605

Of the people I personally know, none purchased from Danger Den and still have starting problems

Andrus · 05-22-2005, 02:20 PM

No, I know that the pump is not starting. It definitely starts to overheat quickly, which is why I shut it down so quickly. I haven't tried to tap it or anything yet, but I don't think it'll make a difference as it isn't making any noise or anything. I have noticed on the 2 pumps that I have recieved that the pump doesn't instantly turn on with the power anyway, it's more like a 3-5sec lag between when the PSU is powered up and when the pump comes on. Nothing like any of my other pumps have done and I've tried quite a few of them, including the csystems, eheim, danner, and an older model D4. I'm thinking I'm going to RMA it and exchange for a D4 as I don't feel this DDC is a reliable pump anymore.

I was hoping it would be as it's a tiny pump, but oh well.

-Andy

DG · 05-22-2005, 02:36 PM

Andrus I have one of the Mag model pumps listed on this forum, it is very small.
Makes no noise what so ever, if your like me it will worry you if the pump is running.

As suggested here I plug it into fan slot and used the MOBO to make sure is running all the time.

Andrus · 05-22-2005, 04:57 PM

Yah, that's what I did with this pump, it has a lead for just RPM detection which I plugged into the PSU port on my mobo as I don't care if my PSU fans are running or not.

However, I did get the pump running again today by tapping on it with the end of a screwdriver, it just started up. Freaky! I don't want to have to do this every other time I turn my computer on though. Oh well, my next pump probably won't be a DDC, I suppose I'll wait it out for the new D5 that DD announced the other day. Thanks for all the help guys!

-Andy

Andrus · 05-25-2005, 03:26 PM

What are the chances of me getting another DDC and it doing the same exact thing. I can't seem to figure out why I have to beat on it everytime I turn the computer on. :shrug: DD has e-mailed me with options : a 3rd DDC, a D4 (already have one), the D5 when it becomes available, or CSP Mag when it becomes available. What would you guys do??? Thanks again!!

-Andy

y371 · 05-25-2005, 04:46 PM

Power supply?

alexwai · 05-25-2005, 10:57 PM

Is it somthings to do with the startup amperage?

Andrus · 05-26-2005, 05:28 AM

PSU is OCZ Powerstream 510... I don't think it has to do with power supply as I have tested it with other power supplies with the same effect. Even when it's the only thing connected to the PSU.

-Andy

Marci · 05-26-2005, 09:09 AM

I've had 4x DDCs returned to us either DOA, or leaking, since we started carrying them a month or so ago...

1x CSP-Mag for leaking...

Dave · 05-26-2005, 10:10 AM

"1x CSP-Mag for leaking..."

100% my fault Marci, was not thinking when operator asked me a question, and they drilled a bolt hole too long.
I assume it is the upper right rear bolt hole?

We leak test all pumps, but the nozzle we use for testing, blocks where the leak is occuring (between threads and hole).

I can send you some extra cases if you like?

Dave

Marci · 05-26-2005, 10:27 AM

Heh... not sure - just slung it in me "bust" box in the corner and sent out a replacement... will get round to testing it eventually... things have gone a bit nuts here since release of PA160...

Dave · 05-26-2005, 10:33 AM

^ Just linked to PA160, it is sweet, looks just like AVT's industrial heat exchangers, only smaller and we use plastic tanks, as we often need to change them.

That is just what everyone needs Marci, guess you are going nuts!

Best of luck,
Dave

Marci · 05-26-2005, 10:45 AM

Yeah, plastic tanks are in use on most of the automotive rads - just figured brass tanks would be better for both heat conductivity, strength etc... I've seen folks drop cases in a way that'd bust plastic endtanks fairly easily... had toyed with the idea for "regional rads" - eg: ThermoChill retail price in US is extortionate, but if we flipped to plastic tanks for US Customers then costs could be brought down more in line with other products, but would folks then choose the alternatives purely cos theirs DON'T have plastic endtanks, and for some reason metal endtanks hold a higher-regard than plastic... (assumption / general observation)

Dave · 05-26-2005, 11:25 AM

Don't think there is any advantage in brass or plastic, we simply use plastic for packaging (install) concerns, and costs of assembly.

Have many different customers that use same "core", with different tanks.
Easy for us to mold a new tank out of plastic whenever a customer needs a change.

Remember this is all OEM stuff, and costs is the biggest factor in most cases.

05-21-2005, 03:58 PM	#1
Andrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NC Posts: 7	2 DDC Failures within 2 weeks? I RMA'd one DDC pump back to Danger Den last week and recieved my new one. Well, it's dead as well... after only about 10 hours of operation. Have I recieved two lemon pumps or is something else going on. I'm using only distilled water and no additives. Also I'm using it in a closed loop. (or was) I'm going to get in touch with Danger Den and see about RMA'ing this pump again, I like it for the size, however if they are just going to keep dieing I suppose I'll trade it in on a D4. Any help would be appreciated!!! -Andy

05-21-2005, 07:23 PM	#2
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	Are you it at 12v or are you volting it up to 13? __________________ My Watercooling Stuff

05-22-2005, 01:21 AM	#4
HammerSandwich Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 15143 Posts: 358	Did the pumps simply stop running? Refuse to start? Any funny noises? __________________ www.procooling.com: It's true we are often a bunch of assholes

05-22-2005, 06:42 AM	#5
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	I was just wondering if you were volting it up (some people do that to get more flow). If you have the room, I'd consider a D4 unless you want to give the DDC one more shot. Like you said, the size makes it a pretty good choice for a lot of people, and besides, there are many of them out there that are working just fine. For grins, what kind of PSU are you using, and are you hooing it up to a UPS unit? __________________ My Watercooling Stuff

05-22-2005, 09:26 AM	#10
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	If the pump vibrates, it's probably working (I guess a visible flow meter is a benefit). Could it be that your waternblock isn't seated correctly? __________________ My Watercooling Stuff

05-21-2005, 09:17 PM	#3
Andrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NC Posts: 7	asus probe reads at 12.36, however, I know onboard voltage monitors most likely aren't exactly what it should be. I should check it with a volt meter. I haven't actually "tried" to run it at a higher voltage tho. Maybe I should lower the pots on the back of my PSU to get closer to 12. Would that cause two pumps to die within about 10 hours tho? The rpm's on the pump were always running around 3600. Not sure if that's fast or slow as I have no baseline. I'll try to test the voltage with a volt meter tomorrow. As for right now though, I guess I have a dead pump? -Andy

05-22-2005, 08:27 AM	#6
Andrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NC Posts: 7	It didn't make any funny noises or anything, It just didn't start when I turned my computer on. The only reason I know it didn't start is I had the RPM lead hooked up to the PSU monitor on the mobo and the alarm went off as soon as windows loaded. The PSU I'm using is a OCZ powerstream. I just can't believe that I could have recieved two bad pumps. -Andy

05-22-2005, 08:34 AM	#7
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	So you physically verified that the pump had failed, and not that the RPM sensor or mobo sensor header is faulty?

05-22-2005, 08:43 AM	#8
generik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: AUS Posts: 14	Maybe DD sent you the same pump that you "RMAed"

05-22-2005, 12:22 PM	#11
DG Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 11	I am new too this forum but not too this issue. I have found many other links to people with same problem as yours. For example http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=19605 Of the people I personally know, none purchased from Danger Den and still have starting problems

05-22-2005, 02:20 PM	#12
Andrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NC Posts: 7	No, I know that the pump is not starting. It definitely starts to overheat quickly, which is why I shut it down so quickly. I haven't tried to tap it or anything yet, but I don't think it'll make a difference as it isn't making any noise or anything. I have noticed on the 2 pumps that I have recieved that the pump doesn't instantly turn on with the power anyway, it's more like a 3-5sec lag between when the PSU is powered up and when the pump comes on. Nothing like any of my other pumps have done and I've tried quite a few of them, including the csystems, eheim, danner, and an older model D4. I'm thinking I'm going to RMA it and exchange for a D4 as I don't feel this DDC is a reliable pump anymore. I was hoping it would be as it's a tiny pump, but oh well. -Andy

05-22-2005, 02:36 PM	#13
DG Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 11	Andrus I have one of the Mag model pumps listed on this forum, it is very small. Makes no noise what so ever, if your like me it will worry you if the pump is running. As suggested here I plug it into fan slot and used the MOBO to make sure is running all the time.

05-22-2005, 04:57 PM	#14
Andrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NC Posts: 7	Yah, that's what I did with this pump, it has a lead for just RPM detection which I plugged into the PSU port on my mobo as I don't care if my PSU fans are running or not. However, I did get the pump running again today by tapping on it with the end of a screwdriver, it just started up. Freaky! I don't want to have to do this every other time I turn my computer on though. Oh well, my next pump probably won't be a DDC, I suppose I'll wait it out for the new D5 that DD announced the other day. Thanks for all the help guys! -Andy

05-25-2005, 03:26 PM	#15
Andrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NC Posts: 7	What are the chances of me getting another DDC and it doing the same exact thing. I can't seem to figure out why I have to beat on it everytime I turn the computer on. :shrug: DD has e-mailed me with options : a 3rd DDC, a D4 (already have one), the D5 when it becomes available, or CSP Mag when it becomes available. What would you guys do??? Thanks again!! -Andy

05-25-2005, 04:46 PM	#16
y371 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: US Posts: 19	Power supply?

05-25-2005, 10:57 PM	#17
alexwai Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 81	Is it somthings to do with the startup amperage?

05-26-2005, 05:28 AM	#18
Andrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NC Posts: 7	PSU is OCZ Powerstream 510... I don't think it has to do with power supply as I have tested it with other power supplies with the same effect. Even when it's the only thing connected to the PSU. -Andy

05-26-2005, 09:09 AM	#19
Marci Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 486	I've had 4x DDCs returned to us either DOA, or leaking, since we started carrying them a month or so ago... 1x CSP-Mag for leaking... __________________ www.minimotosidecars.org / www.thermochill.com / www.themusiccollective.co.uk

05-26-2005, 10:10 AM	#20
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	"1x CSP-Mag for leaking..." 100% my fault Marci, was not thinking when operator asked me a question, and they drilled a bolt hole too long. I assume it is the upper right rear bolt hole? We leak test all pumps, but the nozzle we use for testing, blocks where the leak is occuring (between threads and hole). I can send you some extra cases if you like? Dave

05-26-2005, 10:27 AM	#21
Marci Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 486	Heh... not sure - just slung it in me "bust" box in the corner and sent out a replacement... will get round to testing it eventually... things have gone a bit nuts here since release of PA160... __________________ www.minimotosidecars.org / www.thermochill.com / www.themusiccollective.co.uk

05-26-2005, 10:33 AM	#22
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	^ Just linked to PA160, it is sweet, looks just like AVT's industrial heat exchangers, only smaller and we use plastic tanks, as we often need to change them. That is just what everyone needs Marci, guess you are going nuts! Best of luck, Dave

05-26-2005, 10:45 AM	#23
Marci Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 486	Yeah, plastic tanks are in use on most of the automotive rads - just figured brass tanks would be better for both heat conductivity, strength etc... I've seen folks drop cases in a way that'd bust plastic endtanks fairly easily... had toyed with the idea for "regional rads" - eg: ThermoChill retail price in US is extortionate, but if we flipped to plastic tanks for US Customers then costs could be brought down more in line with other products, but would folks then choose the alternatives purely cos theirs DON'T have plastic endtanks, and for some reason metal endtanks hold a higher-regard than plastic... (assumption / general observation) __________________ www.minimotosidecars.org / www.thermochill.com / www.themusiccollective.co.uk

05-26-2005, 11:25 AM	#24
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	Don't think there is any advantage in brass or plastic, we simply use plastic for packaging (install) concerns, and costs of assembly. Have many different customers that use same "core", with different tanks. Easy for us to mold a new tank out of plastic whenever a customer needs a change. Remember this is all OEM stuff, and costs is the biggest factor in most cases.

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