cascade vs White water

[fhorst]

Hi All, I guess this must be posted here somewhere, but I could not find it.

What's the temp difference between a cascade and a whitewater?

I'll be using 2 MCP600 pumps, to give it some pressure for a good flow.

I'm currenly owning the whitewater, and I'm happy with it.

one other question, what's currently the "best block" out there? "Still" the Cascade?

[Blackeagle]

Well, bear in mind your milage may be differant, but the differance is roughly 2c in favor of the copper Cascade. The SS Cascade which is silver would offer a bit more yet (.5-1c), but at higher cost.

The very best block going is the SS Cascade.

With what dual Swifty 600s will cost ya, why not go for a MD20rlzt Iwaki pump? The Iwaki will take up less room than 2 Swiftys will, and it'll offer even more head rate + flow rate than the Swiftys can. And the price will be little differant.

The Iwaki will have a much higher power draw however, about 2X what the dual Swiftys would have. The Iwaki will give about 50% more flow rate and head compared to the dual Swiftys in return for the higher power draw.

Have you decided on a rad for this set up? GPU or NB blocks?

What are you planning on cooling with those dual pumps beyond the WW or Cascade?

[fhorst]

Call me crazy, call me insane... but I like to have 2 pumps in a row.

Main issue for me is that I want the thing to be "fail safe" It's not that I'm to afraid a pump will fail. (As all pumps will fail on one day)
It's more like that when it fails, I can continue working.
Also, a power usage is an issue for me.
I'm not sure if the MD20rlzt will be that much better. It's rated for a max flow of 15l/minute, max 5m head
The MCP has a 12l/minute, max 3.25m head.
Normally if you combine the pumps, you'll get a bigger head.

Noise is an issue for me also. As far as I could read, the swiffys are more silent.

I'll be running the WhiteWater, DD-Z 875 block (13mm), and a modded Innovatec GPU block (13mm). My radiators are the BIX, the D-tec Heatercore and one 80x160x30 rad. All copper,13mm.

The Dtec and BIX go in the top of the case, as in fan-d-tek-fan-bix-fan. The other rad goes in the bottom, getting cool air from the outside. (2x 80mm fans)

The water goes first via the bay res, to pumps, to D-tek&Bix, then to the 80x160 rad. From there to the WW. The split will stay after the WW, going with separate runs through the NB and GPU, and back to the res again.

My other loop (aluminum) is 2x Eden 106 pumps (maybe in res), 3 HDD Koolance blocks, 1x home made Mosfets block for the IC7-Max3, 1x home made Southbridge block, 1x home made PSU cooling tube, 1x home made backside of mobo block, home made memory blocks(?) and one overkill 150x250x40 alu rad.
For the alu loop I'll be using silicone 4mm tubes, splitting the outlet into 6. I'll need to work out that they will be equally restricting.

First I was thinking of using a blower, but I can't find one silent enough. Running the fans at 6v, they are not noticeable. (Papst)

A bit of the setup I'm thinking about (needs to be updated):
http://members.chello.nl/l.vanderhorst1/setup.jpg

This should keep my setup nice cool and virtually silent.

I finnished my mosfets block. Now I need to work on creating on HDD, the SB and the mobo block.

[Dieter@be]

I'm very curious
It 'll be a hell of a setup

[fhorst]

Originally posted by Blackeagle
Well, bear in mind your milage may be differant, but the differance is roughly 2c in favor of the copper Cascade. The SS Cascade which is silver would offer a bit more yet (.5-1c), but at higher cost.

The very best block going is the SS Cascade.

My question is for the 2 MCP's giving me a good pressure.
I don't know what block will perform better with higher pressure, and how much.

Some tests
But that is with one MCP300.....

I've heard people gaining more then 5 degrees with a cascade, and also people gaining 1 degree. 4 degrees difference is quite a lot. Sure, there will be cases where the WW was not mouted correctly, and the cascade was.... (brings me to a question, waht's good mounting?

Are there reviews about the WW and the Cascade at high pressure?

[Blackeagle]

fhorst,

I see you're in a 50hz country, so the pumps specs are no doubt differant.

In the US, a 60 hz county, the MD20rlzt has more head rate than the dual Swiftys will give, and more flow as well.

Both the Swifty 600s and the Iwaki MD20rlzt are very good quality pumps, dependablity should not be a issue with these pumps.

[fhorst]

Jep, I'm in a 50 hz country... so there is about 17% performence loss here... (but the pumps should run a bit more silent over here )
And you are right, there should not be a problem....
but if there is..
It will take me about 2 weeks to get a replacement.
2 weeks the computer down is not an option for me. So I go for safe. Depending on how it performs, it could be that I'll be running just one pump, and have the other on spare, or run the pumps at a lower voltage.

[Blackeagle]

The temps I posted were based on info posted by Cathar. He had 2c better with his MD30rlzt Iwaki pump. That is a really xtremly high pressure pump.

If you have one of Cathar's original WW blocks then I think you'll only see about 2c. But if you have the D-tek WW you may well do better, as from many things I've read, it doesn't sound like D-Tek is doing as good a job of finishing the base as Cathar did.

And that differance in quality of the base finish could mean quite a bit in temp improvements.

[Cathar]

Originally posted by Blackeagle
The temps I posted were based on info posted by Cathar. He had 2c better with his MD30rlzt Iwaki pump. That is a really xtremly high pressure pump.

With the Eheim 1048 & 1250 as well, not just the MD-30RZ. Improvement ranged between 1.5°C and 2.0°C

Both blocks had been lapped using the same procedure. Heat load was a T'Bred B CPU running at 2400MHz/1.85v, running BurnK7 as a heat stress program.

Results were verified later to apply to the Barton CPU's as well.

P4's are just weird with their thermal probe which seems to be more indicative of the IHS temp, rather than the die temp. The P4 thermal probe doesn't actually monitor the CPU die temperature for purposes of determining the peak CPU temperature for thermal throttling and shutdown, so anything that P4's report is just random pot-luck. I did see 1.5°C lower temperatures on my crappy 2.0A Northwood running at 2.5GHz/1.65v.

Overclocking the Barton CPU very highly (2.70GHz/2.10v which was stable for all blocks tested when running BurnK7) the performance gap between the White Water and the Cascade was well over 2.5°C (not quite 3°C), however I've always been hesitant to report that since people will tend to run away and say that the Cascade is 3°C better than the White Water, then stick one onto their moderately overclocked system, and then wonder why they see much smaller differences.

The Cascade SS pulls between 0.5-1.0C clear of the copper Cascade for moderate overclocks, and a full 1.0C ahead for very high overclocks. The silver block was always pulling higher stable overclocks (20-40MHz depending on CPU used) than the copper block, which I feel is trying to tell a greater story than what simple temperatures alone can say.

Let us state again that these results are just what I see. Your mileage may vary depending on a great number of factors.

I believe that Phaestus is almost done with his copper Cascade review, with Christmas getting in the way of it being finalised. He will have perhaps the most accurate independent test data for the Cascade when it gets published.