Delphi seeks bankruptcy protection

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Yet the USA has more than enough resources to easily survive comfortable unlike many for the other countries that the USA keeps afloat by way of trade.

Getting needed factories running would take perhaps 3-12 months. How comfortable will 290 million people be with no Levis or Nikes, no electronics, no cars? Of course, we'd still have cigarettes... Should China ever stop all US-bound exports, we would quickly learn what a real threat is.

[ricecrispi]

Wanna talk about awareness.

Ask an American if they know the Bin Laden family invested hundreds of millions of dollars into the entire Bush family.

They would call you a liar and say that could have never happened.

Cathar is right about exploitation. America as a land was all about exploitation from Indians to the Blacks from the day the spaniards came. US was built on exploitation, mastered it, and spreading to the rest of world. Out own little country was enough.

It is so funny America is so arrogant. In power for less than a century yet it feels so invincible. If Iraq and Vietnam wasn't a sign already, US is not as powerful as they thought. Two weak countries and they can't even win the battle. Trust me the US doesn't have enough missles to kill everyone.... PLus they don't have the prime resource needed for full scale war. Oil.

[redleader]

uh, trade is a two-way street...by its very nature.

Take a look at trade deficits. The US exports money, while importing goods. Sooner or later though that bubble is going to burst, the dollar will fall in value, and all those exports coming into the US and proping up a lot of places are going to dry up.

[BillA]

jd - don't ever expect to equal Cathar in this type of discussion
he has the perspective you do not, one needs to live outside the US for some years to understand that 'our' system is supremely exploitative - in terms of everything
really good on the topside, rather hopeless on the underside - we are the voices of priviledge, appreciate it
give something eh ?

rc - we have substituted profitability for moral character, we have bible thumpers ignorant of philosophy; the cathedrals of consumerism are their own endpoint

rl - I've been thinking the house of cards supported with hot air was set to fall for 40 years, but the con artists are still selling their game w/o a hitch
- don't bet against momentum, but all things WILL change . . . should we live so long I guess

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by unregistered

jd - don't ever expect to equal Cathar in this type of discussion
he has the perspective you do not, one needs to live outside the US for some years to understand that 'our' system is supremely exploitative - in terms of everything
really good on the topside, rather hopeless on the underside - we are the voices of priviledge, appreciate it
give something eh ?

I don't think so Bill. I have played the political game for years on other sites. I have worked all over the states with dozens of people from other countries as well. In fact two of my better friends are from Vietnam and Russia. With what Cathar has already posted he has nothing really. I don't come here to preach politics, in fact one reason I come here is to stay away from it, so I am not going to get into it.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by jaydee

With what Cathar has already posted he has nothing really.

Yep, the deaths of 20K people, and permanent maiming of 500K more at the hands of an irresponsible USA company is, of course, "nothing really", just as long as they're not USA citizens.

People being paid $2/week for working 14hr days, 7 days a week is, of course, "nothing really", again so long as it's not USA citizens involved.

Fairly typical sort of response Jaydee. Somewhat disappointing though.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Yep, the deaths of 20K people, and permanent maiming of 500K more at the hands of an irresponsible USA company is, of course, "nothing really", just as long as they're not USA citizens.

People being paid $2/week for working 14hr days, 7 days a week is, of course, "nothing really", again so long as it's not USA citizens involved.

Fairly typical sort of response Jaydee. Somewhat disappointing though.

I am not defending that Cathar. You are speaking of corporations though. I was speaking about US government. Two different things. Sure US corporations are plagued with dishonesty, corruption and lack of taking care of their messes as is the government. That is well known as it is with the corporations and governments of every other country in the world.

I was expecting something else I guess. Certainly not links to a bull shit about the CIA and heroin. If you really belive that shit I got a large condo on the ocean in Arizona. There is a reason there is zero credible evidence of such and it isn't because of a secrete coverup and conspiracy.... Bill if you are really buying that then you disapoint me.

Maybe other countries thing the US media is censored or something. The US media, as with any other legit media firm, would LOVE to get their hands on evidence of a conspiracy such as that. Also why on earth would anyone belive the CIA would need to sell drugs to cover costs? They have a decent budget as it is :shrug:

Anyway I am off the political crap. Not why I come to ProCooling.

[Cathar]

That's the problem though Jaydee. Many of these foreigners don't really distinguish between the actions of US companies and the US government. Quite often the actions of these exploitative US companies is the only direct involvement that these people have with the USA, and these companies are all flying the USA flag at their offices as they are wont to do. To such people, these companies are the USA, whether or not they reflect the value system of the average USA citizen.

The CIA and the heroin thing has been covered by independent (non-US company owned) media here in Australia a number of times. If you want to read more sources online, google it: here.

[pauldenton]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Also why on earth would anyone belive the CIA would need to sell drugs to cover costs? They have a decent budget as it is :shrug:

perhaps because of Irangate?

[redleader]

Originally Posted by pauldenton

perhaps because of Irangate?

That was selling arms though. No one in their right mind is going to doubt that the CIA (and other branches of the .gov) sell arms. Drugs is a lot more far fetched.

Also, your name + conspiracy theories = lol

[Cathar]

Need to read it a little more deeply. No one is saying that the CIA sold drugs to cover costs for a war. The statements there are saying that the CIA helped countries in the "Golden Crescent" get it all set up (Laos, Afghanistan, etc). Heck, it was even covered by the Hollywood movie "Air America", not that movies are real life, but the point being that historically it is widely acknowledged there were the very infamous "Air America" flights being run by the CIA carrying drug shipments out of the Golden Crescent in the 70's.

[Cathar]

Another thing, can some of the Americans please explain how the "Taliban" were the enemy, and made out to be such with respect to them supposedly supporting heroin production, when by 2001 the Taliban had cut heroin production in Afghanistan in half over what it had been at the start of 2000, and yet after the 2001 Afghanistan war, that by 2004 heroin production out of Afghanistan has been reported to now be four times that of what it was in 2000...

What's going on there?

[ricecrispi]

US government is plagued with corruption and scandal as much as corporations.
You forget how the Cali congress man had an affair with an intern and she disappeared and found dead. Sandra Levy I believe was her name. Most people would've gone to jail or atleast had a trial. All he got was unemployement.

Watergate, the whole IRAQ and weapons of mass descruction crap and how Cheney owns stock with Haliburtron. Iran contra affair. Anything else, pork barrel spending.....

I also understand Jaydee's point because somethings are bad in US doesn't mean everything is bad too.

People have to understand US as an economy is the world's biggest consumers. Without the US greedily buying prada purses, goods from China and Korean, and vast amounts of oil for SUVs that all the other countries would collapse first. Consumers can leave without goods as long as they survive. US can do without plasma Tv's and expensive cars and clothes and extravagent things. Just plain economics.

[JoeKamel]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Another thing, can some of the Americans please explain how the "Taliban" were the enemy, and made out to be such with respect to them supposedly supporting heroin production, when by 2001 the Taliban had cut heroin production in Afghanistan in half over what it had been at the start of 2000, and yet after the 2001 Afghanistan war, that by 2004 heroin production out of Afghanistan has been reported to now be four times that of what it was in 2000...

What's going on there?

Remember that orthodox Islam has prohibitions on mind altering substances. The same justice system that they imposed that was allowing people to get beaten on the streets, public beheadings, etc, was being applied just as much to people growing drugs. The Northern Alliance was involved in the drug trade prior to US involvement in Afghanistan and simply put, jail is nowhere near the deterrent that a nearly summary executionis it comes to dissuading someone from getting involved in that stuff.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by JoeKamel

Remember that orthodox Islam has prohibitions on mind altering substances. The same justice system that they imposed that was allowing people to get beaten on the streets, public beheadings, etc, was being applied just as much to people growing drugs. The Northern Alliance was involved in the drug trade prior to US involvement in Afghanistan and simply put, jail is nowhere near the deterrent that a nearly summary executionis it comes to dissuading someone from getting involved in that stuff.

Am well aware of the history of what the Taliban were doing. Brutal group indeed.

What I meant was that the USA lambasted the Taliban on their supposed lax attempts to control heroin production as well as on their human rights records. 4 years later after the USA stepped in to "fix the problem" and heroin production is 4x that of what it was when they started.

*sniff* *sniff*