FluidXP listening?

[Acidshock]

Originally Posted by kronchev

the people who are interested in it are only because of the misleading info that is associated with it. i know its a crime to try to convince people not to make a bad decision but we here at pro/forums are rebels.

Dude I give up.. its like talking to a freakin brick wall.. Ok your right Kronchev your always right.. your never wrong.. all hail Kronchev, think like Kronchev since anything else is just wrong... BTW your not convincing people your just scaring them and for the most part being rude... Also I dont know how you can say this stuff is "snake oil" etc when you yourself havent even tried it... Another thing worth mentioning is that MSDS's do not always contain everything that is contained within the product. Well anyways I am out, I have given my opinion on what I think of the stuff have fun bashing away at it and picking it apart.

P.S. listen more to PH, he seems to know what hes talking about chemical wise and is at least open to actually discussing the matter.

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by syncmaster

You know whats funny I see the same people here making issues about this product from the last thread. What I dont understand is what the F**k is the big deal about what it dosen't do and what it does do. If you have a use for it and it fits your needs then great buy it... If it dosent fit your needs then dont buy it and STFU and let the people that are intrested in it and have a use for it ask the questions... Just my .02

It's called debate. It's fairly common on internet forums.
What use is a discussion forum where everyone agrees with everything? If that's what you want, just read the manufacturer's sales pitch and be done with it. If you want a discussion with people on both sides of the fence then you go to a forum.

[bigben2k]

No.

You guys have been in fact bashing this product, and have been ignoring the one technical point that makes this product different: it's maintenance free.

Sure it's expensive, sure there are much cheaper solutions that will work equally well, or better, but there's that one aspect, which I've tried to bring up numerous times now, which has been completely ignored, by everyone.

This is not a debate, so far.

[Butcher]

But it isn't maintainence free - they recommend changing it every 2 years. That's lower maintainence certainly, but not really maintainence free.
I suppose it boils down to - is the price worth it for having to change your coolant 4 times less often?

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by bigben2k

You guys have been in fact bashing this product, and have been ignoring the one technical point that makes this product different: it's maintenance free.

Sure it's expensive, sure there are much cheaper solutions that will work equally well, or better, but there's that one aspect, which I've tried to bring up numerous times now, which has been completely ignored, by everyone.

ok, so its "maintenence free" (which isnt true, remember it needs to be changed every 2 years or so). first off, how often is a user going to have the exact same setup and fluid, in the exact same setup, without ever having to drain the system, for 2 years? what do you think is the max for that? because as I see it, if youre going watercooling, youre already the kind of person who would upgrade SOMETHING either in the cooling loop, or the processor, or the video card if its blocked. hell even if you change motherboards youd be playing dangerously to not drain the system first.

also, how often do you need to change distilled/de-I and water wetter? i honestly cant say because i havent had my system long enough to know, but I dont see any reason itd become bad enough that you would have to change the coolant. and even then its not hard enough that i wouldnt want to do it if it would give me any benefit.

They dont only push the "maintence free" aspect because I believe that even they know its not enough to justify the cost. they also love how its less conductive than distilled + water wetter. and to me, and i know a lot of other people here, neither of those justifies the cost, and i cant possibly conceive how it would to anyone else.

[Butcher]

The anti-corrosive properties of water wetter will degrade after a while, changing your coolant roughly every 6 months seems to be the norm.

[8-Ball]

I have to agree that loewr maintenance is definitely a bonus in some peoples minds. Remeber that there are a lot of people getting into watercooling more for the bragging rights than anything else and probably won't be too keen on regular maintenance.

It's the conductivity issue which concerns me.

Until I see someone pour a load of this stuff over a running computer and it still work, then I will accept that it "may" be worth the money. And not only that, but I don't want to see someone pouring this stuff straight out of a bottle onto a computer. I want to see that it is still non-conductive after the recommended 2 years running time in a real system.

8-ball

[bobkoure]

If you're looking for low maintenance, why not just make sure you don't have dissimilar metals anywhere in the system? Do you still care about the anti-corrosion additives "wearing out"? Will they wear out / break down / dissipate / whatever they do - if there's only copper and brass in a system? Or is copper going to form a film of corrosion even in a same-metals system?
If you want non-conductive, what about de-ionized water by itself in a same-metals system. Yes, it will re-ionize, but how much? Enough to matter if some is splashed on a motherboard?
FWIW, I've had a couple of leaks - always in the "pretest" phase, so always with simple distilled water, and electronics haven't been "live". So far, I've just dried it off (sponge off / suck out puddles, then air dry) and everything's been fine. Would this distilled water have killed my electronics if it had been live?

[pHaestus]

I also seriously doubt that this stuff can remain deionized for more than a few moments at pH 7; the fluid has to be in equilibrium with dissolved CO2. That means at pH 7, HCO3- = 10-4M just from speciation of dissolved carbon dioxide gas. That reaction also produces a proton, so your ligands in solution would have had to be negatively charged initially (and contributing to ionic strength then eh?) to buffer the pH and hold it at 7. This gets to the fundamental point: I don't understand how a ligand can be added to the system without affecting ionic strength (and therefore EC). These claims seem incorrect to me, but I could certainly be missing something here in the formulation.

As an aside you can't even accurately measure the quality of deionized water by pouring it in a beaker and putting an EC probe into it. It takes up dissolved CO2 THAT fast. Raindrops are in equilibrium with CO2 before they hit the ground. Not this FluidXP+ stuff tho eh?

The other thing that seems bogus is that it is crystal clear that the people vocally in support of this product have very few posts and in fact registered just to talk about it. If you are affiliated with the company then be honest about it. Otherwise you look like a scam artist (and this IS $25 deionized water w/ a small amount of additive we are talking about).

//EDIT! Ah I looked up their conductivity of 76 uS/cm: More like an ionic strength of 5x10-3M...not "same as deionized water" at all. The readings WOULD be close if the deionized water is measured open to the atmosphere though (and therefore not deionized). Probably not purposefully misleading just poor analytical procedure. Back-calculate resistivity Mr. FluidXP+ guy and I bet the reading for your water purification system is nowhere near 18.2 MOhms (assuming you start with truly deionized water).

[bigben2k]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

...

It's the conductivity issue which concerns me.

Until I see someone pour a load of this stuff over a running computer and it still work, then I will accept that it "may" be worth the money. And not only that, but I don't want to see someone pouring this stuff straight out of a bottle onto a computer. I want to see that it is still non-conductive after the recommended 2 years running time in a real system.

8-ball

Thank you.

According to the info that mklt e-mail'ed me, the following conductivity has been measured:

- Anti-Freeze / Water (50/50 mix) : 2750 microSiemens/cm

- Koolance : 8550 microSiemens/cm

- Water Wetter / Water (50/50 mix) : 29400 microSiemens/cm

- Windshield Washing Fluid : 4800 microSiemens/cm

- Mineral Oil : <0.03 microSiemens/cm


Again, no mention of longevity.

[pHaestus]

well...deionized water from any laboratory water purification system is 18.2 MOhms resistivity or: 1/18,200,000 S/cm or ~ 5.5x10-2 uS/cm conductivity.

//edit units units units

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

I have to agree that loewr maintenance is definitely a bonus in some peoples minds. Remeber that there are a lot of people getting into watercooling more for the bragging rights than anything else and probably won't be too keen on regular maintenance.

It's the conductivity issue which concerns me.

Until I see someone pour a load of this stuff over a running computer and it still work, then I will accept that it "may" be worth the money. And not only that, but I don't want to see someone pouring this stuff straight out of a bottle onto a computer. I want to see that it is still non-conductive after the recommended 2 years running time in a real system.

8-ball

honestly if it 10000% non conductive like that ill make a vat of the stuff and run my computer in it...pump the fluid around it and whatnot

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

well...deionized water from any laboratory water purification system is 18.2 MOhms resistivity or: 1/18,200,000 S/cm or ~ 5.5x10-2 uS/cm conductivity.

//edit units units units

hm, they list de-I water as something around 30 mS/cm. I remember seeing that this stuff was roughly double what de-I is. thats why I always have been saying, why not use de-I water, which will perform better (they even admit it) and which conducts less, and is exponentially cheaper? I didnt think about the absorption of CO2 however...

[8-Ball]

Because de-I water WILL NOT stay non-conductive for very long at all.

What is in question here is whether FluidXP can maintain it's low conductivity for the marketted life span between coolant changes.

If it can, then it is my opinion that this really is a very good product and I would probably get some myself, though it WOULD be nice if they dropped the price a little.

However, I'm yet to see anything that has convinced me that this is the case, and until then, I reserve the right to say that it ain't worth the moeny and you'd be better off with conventional coolant mixtures.

8-ball

[Titan151]

For me it's nothing but good old City of Seattle Tap water and a some antifreeze. I have spilled copious amounts of this solution on my floor and it doesn't stain!!! . As for Acidshock, he could of at least put up a few posts about something else to make himself look less like a product rep. Perhaps the name it self is too much of a give away. Sounds like something straight out of hackers. eg. crash overide, or acidburn! Names that are too cool for school .

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by Titan151

For me it's nothing but good old City of Seattle Tap water and a some antifreeze. I have spilled copious amounts of this solution on my floor and it doesn't stain!!! . As for Acidshock, he could of at least put up a few posts about something else to make himself look less like a product rep. Perhaps the name it self is too much of a give away. Sounds like something straight out of hackers. eg. crash overide, or acidburn! Names that are too cool for school .

look out, here comes zero cool!

also acid burn was hot so thats ok

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by syncmaster

You know whats funny I see the same people here making issues about this product from the last thread. What I dont understand is what the F**k is the big deal about what it dosen't do and what it does do. If you have a use for it and it fits your needs then great buy it... If it dosent fit your needs then dont buy it and STFU and let the people that are intrested in it and have a use for it ask the questions... Just my .02

Dude if it wasn't for people like us the speak up then everything would be over priced and half assed. Someone has to speak up for everyone else.

[Surreal]

I have a question.....

ACIDSHOCK... What kind of tubing do you use in the system which has ran over a year? Are the tubes cloudy? To what degree? A watter wetter depth of a stain?

I HATE cloudy tubing.... please advise.

SS

[caxis0]

I'd like to know, too. Before too long, I'll have my project near completion and two big questions that I have are which type of tubing (I'm pretty settled on Tygon) and what sort of cooling mixture I should use--a huge priority for me is that it be low maintenance. I want to avoid cloudy tubing that I have to scrub out more than just about anything else--I want whatever will stay the cleanest looking the longest.

Bruce