Won the Radiator Lottery!

[dax]

Originally posted by airspirit
Search for Lytron on Ebay. There are a few surplus outlets that are constantly auctioning them off. You will find them in either copper (6000 series) or steel (4000 series) with copper fins. The copper ones will run you between $60-150 USD and the steel ones between $30-100 USD. Try for a copper one. You should be able to find them in sizes much smaller than the one I got for alot less ($50 USD range).

and shipping?

[BillA]

you fellows seem to be ignoring some radiator 'basics':

ss tubes are used for their corrosion resistance, not at all good for heat transfer as compared to copper

and round tubes for their pressure capability, inferior to ANY flat tube with soldered or brazed fins

the ONLY reason to use a round tube radiator is because its cheap
- and given the price of heater cores . . . .

[airspirit]

BillA,
Agreed on the steel. We had a discussion in another thread about that. As far as the advantages of heatercores, we are agreed. The reason I went with the biggie is because in the end, I wouldn't be able to find a core with the requirements for a multiple sytem cooler. This can do it, and allow me to use huge quiet fans as well (looking at Caravels at around 10V ... somewhere around 33-34dB, if I reckon correctly ... damn near silent). This is not the solution for everyone. Plus, I just think heatercores look ghetto, and while I live in the ghetto, my geekware doesn't need to match my surroundings.

:P

[BillA]

airspirit
understood, was only pointing out that round tube are less than ideal
- but as with all system component selections, everything is a balancing of compromises

and beauty of course is in the eye of the beholder

[airspirit]

I work around car guts all day in the course of my job. I really don't want to see them in my Temple of Geekdom. It is funny getting the reactions of ASE certified mechanics when you're telling them about watercooling stuff. They aren't afraid of working on $50K vehicles, but they wouldn't think of trying the same cooling work on the inside of a computer.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by unregistered

ss tubes are used for their corrosion resistance, not at all good for heat transfer as compared to copper

As a general statement, that would be true. However...

If you compare the Lytron 6320 with its SS counterpart, the 4320, you'll find that the thermal performance is almost exactly the same (pointed out by another user).

[airspirit]

Personally, it would be the corrosion factor that would worry me rather than the heat transfer ability. I won't even use brass in my system for fear of corrosion.

I think I'm paranoid ... I use tons of corrosion inhibitors and I worry about different purity levels in the copper itself ....

[BillA]

so the conclusion is . . . . ?

lets examine the possibilities:
- the thermal conductivity of Cu and ss is not so different
- given the fabrication methods the end result is not so different
- the data is not so accurate

we know the first is not true, the second and third are possible

we know that swedged-on fins are always worse than brazed or soldered fins,
but differences between the Cu and ss tubes should be slight (deformation, 'springback', etc)
- we do not know if the tubes are upset into the preformed fin holes, or if both are made in the same way

we know that sales lit is not a test report (though I greatly like, and reference, the Lytron graphs)

conclusion ?
the same, best performance with a flat tube and soldered or brazed fins
(and note that the Al rad shown has VERY unique flat tubes - per Lytron and the tube extruder)

[koslov]

Well, by looking at my 4120, it appears that the copper extends into the tubing itself. In fact, the SS is not even visible externally. Hopefully a picture is worth more than these words:



Also note that Lytron 6XXX copper rads have a microscopic layer of paint, which might lower their performance to that of the SS rads. But I would guess that superior fin bonding plays a greater role in the equalization, which one might guess from the difference in price between copper and SS rads.

[bigdawginva]

Well, the guy's still better than he was 2 weeks ago. The guy sold one two weeks ago for $46, last week for $65 and $106, and tonight for $91.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1782862712

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1784983074

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...786039691&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...787431502&rd=1

Marketing to WCing enthusiasts has now made him an additional $124 from two weeks ago.

However, the guy selling the larger versions without the fans, like jnsholcomb (airspirit) bought for $71, went down to $51 the other day. IMO, the smaller, SS one with the fans is not worth $40 more than the larger, copper one without fans.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...785284769&rd=1

Interesting mindset on Ebay sometimes.

[shaft01]

Sorry bout beating you out on the bidding there bigdawginva

But it looks like you got 2 more chances to get one.......

[koslov]

You guys better have some monstrous pumps for those giants... the pressure drop is astronomical. I am happier with the 4120, fits in my case, has good lucks, and very good performance(compared to HCs). Haven't actually hooked it up yet, waiting to get a block.

Airspirit, can I recommend getting 2 AC caravels, then using a ceiling fan controller to control noise? Works well for me, at the lowest setting, there is only noise from the fan bearings. Very quiet, but not silent.

OT: Is there any way to reduce bearing noise? Can I rebalance them?

[airspirit]

My 350 GPH pump is doing awesome ... better than through my BIX. I don't think I'll have flow problems after all. The fittings were a b!tch to buy, though.

[bigdawginva]

Originally posted by shaft01
Sorry bout beating you out on the bidding there bigdawginva

But it looks like you got 2 more chances to get one.......

You're incorrect.

[bigdawginva]

I am happier with the 4120

Over what? What you used to have? Over the 6320? If so, did you have a 6320 for comparison? Or are you just pleased with the 4120?

the pressure drop is astronomical.

very good performance(compared to HCs). Haven't actually hooked it up yet, waiting to get a block.

Then how did you acquire this information?

[koslov]

Lytron PDFs. I assumed they were common knowledge by now, sorry 'bout that. Here's a link: http://www.lytron.com/reg/files/2003...gers_44-51.pdf You will need to create a login to access it.

PS: Why did you edit out your previous post?

[bigdawginva]

My 350 GPH pump is doing awesome ... better than through my BIX.

I'm not sure I understand the connection.

[shaft01]

Originally posted by koslov
You guys better have some monstrous pumps for those giants... the pressure drop is astronomical. I am happier with the 4120, fits in my case, has good lucks, and very good performance(compared to HCs). Haven't actually hooked it up yet, waiting to get a block.

Airspirit, can I recommend getting 2 AC caravels, then using a ceiling fan controller to control noise? Works well for me, at the lowest setting, there is only noise from the fan bearings. Very quiet, but not silent.

OT: Is there any way to reduce bearing noise? Can I rebalance them?

Well to address your concerns regarding the 6320 several of us have gotten.......I do have a killer pump......470 gph Iwaki MD20 and the 6320 fits IN my case

In my config I am going to use 2 48v volt 10" comair-rotron fans running at 24v as I bought a 4 amp 24v PS from MPJA.com for $3.95 I am currently running a Modine microchannel rad about the size of your 4000 series with 2 24v rotrons @ 12v and like you only have the bearing noise.......Hopefully the 48's at 24 will be the same. I dont know of anything that you can do for the bearing noise but on mine it is so quiet I have to put my ear close to the case to hear them......

[shaft01]

Originally posted by bigdawginva
You're incorrect.

Really? A search reveals even more than that now......I count 6 of them now up for auction from the same place.......I would be willing to bet some folks are going to get some phenomenal deals on them even better than the $51 I paid.

[airspirit]

What I meant was that I seem to be getting better flow through the Lytron 6320 than through my BIX, and this using a 350 GPH Danner Supreme pump. For all the doomsayers out there, this means I'm getting less resistance than from the BIX, which means that my project will be fine. This doesn't seem to give near the resistance the web site says it will. I don't have solid numbers on that, but hooking one rad up after the other demonstrated the flow difference, and the Lytron beat out the BIX hands down.

[UnrealREality]

would a single 120mm sunnon do fine on a 4120?

[FRAGN'STIEN]

Originally posted by bigdawginva
LMAOPMIP...this place is a hoot...5 minutes after these last few posts about the MCS this one starts getting bids on it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...784974000&rd=1

Ah, and I see it was hmale that won it. I wonder what he'll be up to next? . Nice to see your project comming along airspirit. I too have been in the process of building an external cooler, but was looking for the right rad. I was just going to go with the standared 2 chevette rad setup, but I think I'll be picking up one of those bad boys.

[airspirit]

This thing cools like a mother, and doesn't have the flow restriction that the Lytron site said it would. I'm using a 350 GPH pump and even with a net height of over 3.5 ft and numerous 90s and such, I am still getting much better cooling than through a BIX (and this is with a weak ass desk fan blowing on the radiator, so with good fans it would do better). These things are sweet. Check out my thread on the Lytron 37deg. JIC fittings though, since you can either cut off the fittings that come with the thing, or pay out the ass for fittings that are compatible. Just a warning.

On a personal note, if you're ever through Moscow and want to take a look at my psycho project with that radiator, just let me know and you're more than welcome. This is definitely something you don't see every day.

[bigdawginva]

Originally posted by shaft01
Really? A search reveals even more than that now......I count 6 of them now up for auction from the same place.......I would be willing to bet some folks are going to get some phenomenal deals on them even better than the $51 I paid.

That's why I indicated you were incorrect. Instead of 2 there were 6. And since the last one went for $31 I would agree with your assumption. I was glad to see the glut of them after yours went for $51 since I'm not willing to pay for than $30 for a rad I really don't need and still haven't determined how I'll accomodate it's size.

[FRAGN'STIEN]

Originally posted by airspirit
This thing cools like a mother, and doesn't have the flow restriction that the Lytron site said it would. I'm using a 350 GPH pump and even with a net height of over 3.5 ft and numerous 90s and such, I am still getting much better cooling than through a BIX (and this is with a weak ass desk fan blowing on the radiator, so with good fans it would do better). These things are sweet. Check out my thread on the Lytron 37deg. JIC fittings though, since you can either cut off the fittings that come with the thing, or pay out the ass for fittings that are compatible. Just a warning.

On a personal note, if you're ever through Moscow and want to take a look at my psycho project with that radiator, just let me know and you're more than welcome. This is definitely something you don't see every day.

Hey airspirit I may just have to take you up on that. I would love to see that thing in action