Will solvents damage my epoxied seals?

redleader · 09-11-2002, 03:47 PM

I sealed my PVC res barbs tight with "Marine Goop" per a recomendation on this board. I'll hand it to you guys, thisforum came through and it sealed amazinly well.

Now I have a question. I want to use something aside from WW as an additive. For several reasons, amounf them that I hate the stuff with a passion as well as astetics. So will alcohol dissolve the stuff? How about Antifreeze? I just want something to keep my water inorganic.

Info here on Goop.

http://toolmanmike.20m.com/intheshop...marinegoop.htm

Thanks.

gmat · 09-11-2002, 03:54 PM

Antifreeze (aka Glycol) should be OK, lots of people have been using it.
I don't think alcohol in general (Glycol is an alcohol) is a problem with good epoxy-like sealants.

TonyM · 09-11-2002, 04:43 PM

I would watch out probably not initially but maybe this stuff will break down over time. "it should not break or crack under stress or exposure to the elements" from their website, it should not seems like there might be a possibility.

airspirit · 09-11-2002, 05:36 PM

Some additives like water wetter and hyperlube can cause them to break down. You might want to try JB Weld around it. That will NOT break down in eth/meth/isopropanol or any of the common additives. Apply it liberally over ALL epoxied parts and extend it out around it. It'll form a nice shell for added protection.

redleader · 09-12-2002, 03:58 PM

The stuff seems to harden into a semisoft layer of clear plastic. It doesn't look like a polar solvent would dissovle it. I think I'll let some soak in pure ethnol and see what happens.

wymjym · 09-12-2002, 04:39 PM

Hi, my non scientific .02, based on some experiance:
you can re-flow goop (at any point in it's life) with acetone.
You can clean off fresh goop with alcohol (not easy but it does clean off) so......I have the feeling that if goop is exposed to alcohol for a long enough period , it will soften and not perform as desired.
wj

Rob C · 09-12-2002, 05:29 PM

I don't know whether it was just the combination of brands of epoxy and antifreeze, but I had major leakage problems when I built a perspex reservoir for my watercooling system. I glued it together with epoxy glue, and filled it with a water/antifreeze mix. The blue colour of the antifreeze may have looked cool, but after a few days I noticed the previously hard, pale epoxy had been stained blue and become soft, rubbery and weak (kinda like those chewy coca cola bottle sweets if you know what I mean

). My reservoir started leaking all over, so I took it apart, rebuilt it, let it dry, refilled it - and a couple of days later, same problem. So the next time I repaired and filled it, I left out the antifreeze - now I've been running it for a year with no problems

.

I was worried about algae and stuff too, so I boiled the water before using it to kill off anything, and left it overnight in the fridge to cool down. I've not noticed anything growing in the water despite (like I said) having been running for a year. So just boil the water and you should be fine - and be wary of antifreeze... rebuilding my reservoir those coupla times was a helluva pain and took forever... wish I'd figured it out earlier...

gmat · 09-13-2002, 03:53 AM

Beware, some epoxies are *not* waterproof.
The epoxy i've been using is composed of a grey powder and a yellowish goop. The result is a metallic-looking seal, it's *very* strong and waterproof. It's a bit more expensive than 'first price' epoxy though... But it will resist anything (at least it's written on the box)

tokamac · 09-13-2002, 07:35 AM

The one rule of thumb I remember from chemistry is that "likes dissolve" so for example gasoline, an 8 or so carbon chain, will dissolve the hell outa most plastics (really long carbon chains!)
Ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is also a carbon backboned molecule... so if your glue is also carbon based watch out...

So what I am saying is silicone rtv is the way to go, most of the stuff that works is silicone based... then you can just about put anything in your system

(as long as your hose, barbs, seals are silicone too!)

Tokamac

airspirit · 09-13-2002, 01:01 PM

Boiling the water will provide little protection. As soon as it hits air it will collect some manner of bacteria. You would need a clean room environment to make that work. Small amounts of isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) is the best guarantee in a straight water system with no other additives. Why take the chance? It certainly won't hurt your thermal transfer.

Rob C · 09-13-2002, 02:51 PM

That's true I guess - probably the water out of the tap was already pretty well treated, so boiling it may not have been necessary. I mainly did it just in case there was any algae in there - I figure it's unlikely that there'll be algae floating around in the air to contaminate it afterwards. I'll have to remember that isopropanol tip - I'd better put some in my next watercooled rig, just to be on the safe side

bigben2k · 09-13-2002, 03:34 PM

Here's some more info on GOOP:

It's a silicone based glue. It's manufactured by Eclectic Products inc, in Pineville, LA, USA, and HQ'd in Springfield, Oregon.

That company is a division of The Willamette Valey Company (a precursor?) and is HQ'd in Eugene, Oregon.

GOOP is different in Canada!!!

There are many variations, including:
household
automotive
marine
E6000
and even crafter's goop

They also make a marine epoxy

They also make wood fillers and water based stains and lacqers.

It's good stuff, I've got a tube of it!

redleader · 09-15-2002, 03:42 PM

Since its silicone bases, I'm thinking it should be ok. Just to be sure though I emailed them about it. Hopefully they'll get back to me.

Otherwise I guess I'll have to try and test a seal and see how it holds up. My setup is exceptionally well sealed so I'd like to try running ethonal/water.

ssjwizard · 09-15-2002, 05:54 PM

also about a tsp of bleach per 1 1/2 gallons works fine especialy if your gonig to be running a bong setup. and as was stated most epoxies have diffrent resistances to certin things... your marien rtv sealant is designed to be used around solevants and should work fine

redleader · 09-19-2002, 01:14 AM

Bleech seems like a really bad idea on metals.

DarkEdge · 09-19-2002, 03:50 AM

I just use normal tap water. I change it out once a month. With the new water I put a couple drops of bleach. When I took apart my rig it looked just the same as when I bought it.

09-11-2002, 03:47 PM	#1
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Will solvents damage my epoxied seals? I sealed my PVC res barbs tight with "Marine Goop" per a recomendation on this board. I'll hand it to you guys, thisforum came through and it sealed amazinly well. Now I have a question. I want to use something aside from WW as an additive. For several reasons, amounf them that I hate the stuff with a passion as well as astetics. So will alcohol dissolve the stuff? How about Antifreeze? I just want something to keep my water inorganic. Info here on Goop. http://toolmanmike.20m.com/intheshop...marinegoop.htm Thanks.

09-11-2002, 05:36 PM	#4
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Some additives like water wetter and hyperlube can cause them to break down. You might want to try JB Weld around it. That will NOT break down in eth/meth/isopropanol or any of the common additives. Apply it liberally over ALL epoxied parts and extend it out around it. It'll form a nice shell for added protection. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

09-13-2002, 01:01 PM	#10
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Boiling the water will provide little protection. As soon as it hits air it will collect some manner of bacteria. You would need a clean room environment to make that work. Small amounts of isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) is the best guarantee in a straight water system with no other additives. Why take the chance? It certainly won't hurt your thermal transfer. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

09-13-2002, 03:34 PM	#12
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Here's some more info on GOOP: It's a silicone based glue. It's manufactured by Eclectic Products inc, in Pineville, LA, USA, and HQ'd in Springfield, Oregon. That company is a division of The Willamette Valey Company (a precursor?) and is HQ'd in Eugene, Oregon. GOOP is different in Canada!!! There are many variations, including: household automotive marine E6000 and even crafter's goop They also make a marine epoxy They also make wood fillers and water based stains and lacqers. It's good stuff, I've got a tube of it! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-11-2002, 03:54 PM	#2
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Antifreeze (aka Glycol) should be OK, lots of people have been using it. I don't think alcohol in general (Glycol is an alcohol) is a problem with good epoxy-like sealants.

09-11-2002, 04:43 PM	#3
TonyM Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mount Prospect Posts: 78	I would watch out probably not initially but maybe this stuff will break down over time. "it should not break or crack under stress or exposure to the elements" from their website, it should not seems like there might be a possibility.

09-12-2002, 03:58 PM	#5
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	The stuff seems to harden into a semisoft layer of clear plastic. It doesn't look like a polar solvent would dissovle it. I think I'll let some soak in pure ethnol and see what happens.

09-12-2002, 04:39 PM	#6
wymjym Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: near Austin Posts: 96	Hi, my non scientific .02, based on some experiance: you can re-flow goop (at any point in it's life) with acetone. You can clean off fresh goop with alcohol (not easy but it does clean off) so......I have the feeling that if goop is exposed to alcohol for a long enough period , it will soften and not perform as desired. wj

09-12-2002, 05:29 PM	#7
Rob C Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Woodcote, UK Posts: 18	I don't know whether it was just the combination of brands of epoxy and antifreeze, but I had major leakage problems when I built a perspex reservoir for my watercooling system. I glued it together with epoxy glue, and filled it with a water/antifreeze mix. The blue colour of the antifreeze may have looked cool, but after a few days I noticed the previously hard, pale epoxy had been stained blue and become soft, rubbery and weak (kinda like those chewy coca cola bottle sweets if you know what I mean ). My reservoir started leaking all over, so I took it apart, rebuilt it, let it dry, refilled it - and a couple of days later, same problem. So the next time I repaired and filled it, I left out the antifreeze - now I've been running it for a year with no problems . I was worried about algae and stuff too, so I boiled the water before using it to kill off anything, and left it overnight in the fridge to cool down. I've not noticed anything growing in the water despite (like I said) having been running for a year. So just boil the water and you should be fine - and be wary of antifreeze... rebuilding my reservoir those coupla times was a helluva pain and took forever... wish I'd figured it out earlier...

09-13-2002, 03:53 AM	#8
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Beware, some epoxies are not waterproof. The epoxy i've been using is composed of a grey powder and a yellowish goop. The result is a metallic-looking seal, it's very strong and waterproof. It's a bit more expensive than 'first price' epoxy though... But it will resist anything (at least it's written on the box)

09-13-2002, 07:35 AM	#9
tokamac Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: G-Town NC Posts: 51	The one rule of thumb I remember from chemistry is that "likes dissolve" so for example gasoline, an 8 or so carbon chain, will dissolve the hell outa most plastics (really long carbon chains!) Ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is also a carbon backboned molecule... so if your glue is also carbon based watch out... So what I am saying is silicone rtv is the way to go, most of the stuff that works is silicone based... then you can just about put anything in your system (as long as your hose, barbs, seals are silicone too!) Tokamac

09-13-2002, 02:51 PM	#11
Rob C Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Woodcote, UK Posts: 18	That's true I guess - probably the water out of the tap was already pretty well treated, so boiling it may not have been necessary. I mainly did it just in case there was any algae in there - I figure it's unlikely that there'll be algae floating around in the air to contaminate it afterwards. I'll have to remember that isopropanol tip - I'd better put some in my next watercooled rig, just to be on the safe side

09-15-2002, 03:42 PM	#13
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Since its silicone bases, I'm thinking it should be ok. Just to be sure though I emailed them about it. Hopefully they'll get back to me. Otherwise I guess I'll have to try and test a seal and see how it holds up. My setup is exceptionally well sealed so I'd like to try running ethonal/water.

09-15-2002, 05:54 PM	#14
ssjwizard Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new mexico Posts: 21	also about a tsp of bleach per 1 1/2 gallons works fine especialy if your gonig to be running a bong setup. and as was stated most epoxies have diffrent resistances to certin things... your marien rtv sealant is designed to be used around solevants and should work fine

09-19-2002, 01:14 AM	#15
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Bleech seems like a really bad idea on metals.

09-19-2002, 03:50 AM	#16
DarkEdge Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sugar Land, Tx Posts: 176	I just use normal tap water. I change it out once a month. With the new water I put a couple drops of bleach. When I took apart my rig it looked just the same as when I bought it.

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