Merry christmas to me (from hwlabs) - Page 2

brucoman · 12-21-2004, 11:18 AM

sure he is!
RD-30 feeding 2 G4's

MaxxxRacer · 12-24-2004, 05:05 PM

nik is completely mainstream. Doesnt everyone have an rd30 and a 24volt dedicated power supply in their case?

I have a quick question. That rad looks pretty amazing, but can it compete with a dual heatercore (2-302) with a good shroud and some sanyo denki fans?

From what I can see this rad is custom tailored for low restriction for the fans and for the water flow. good for quiet, but will it keep up with the high performance rads we have now?

Joe · 12-24-2004, 09:43 PM

hahah that thing is one step short of being a F'n Ford Fiesta radiator

just make the inlets a lil bigger hehe

nikhsub1 · 12-25-2004, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

nik is completely mainstream. Doesnt everyone have an rd30 and a 24volt dedicated power supply in their case?

I have a quick question. That rad looks pretty amazing, but can it compete with a dual heatercore (2-302) with a good shroud and some sanyo denki fans?

From what I can see this rad is custom tailored for low restriction for the fans and for the water flow. good for quiet, but will it keep up with the high performance rads we have now?

When you say high performance rads we have now, are you referring to dual heatercores like the one weapon makes shrouds for? If so, i would think the 120.3's and the BI 3's should at least do as well but I'm thinking they should do a bit better as they have more surface area.

pHaestus · 12-25-2004, 12:20 PM

I like this graph from Bill's Thermochill testing:

http://thermal-management-testing.com/Thermo16.gif

See how with the 120.3 and 7V fans you can get similar dissipation to 120.3 and 12V. Now look at this post:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...8&postcount=23

And it becomes clear that if you are running undervolted/quiet fans that the thinner radiator with larger facial area should be at a big advantage. You have to use fans louder than Panaflo M1As (and IMO 3 of those at 12V would be unacceptably noisy) to get better performance with a thicker radiator than with a Pro. Presumably a 2" thick heatercore would have an even more pronounced effect (but the facial area is larger due to their width so it's somewhat offset). So if you had one of those heatercores with 2 Delta VHE or SHE fans at 12V then it'd outperform this radiator but at a ridiculous noise level...

MaxxxRacer · 12-25-2004, 04:15 PM

pH, with the dual heatercore that I have, I get very acceptable noise levles (ive gotten picky with my watercooling), I still get considerably good flow. Actually surprisingly good air flow. I use a shroud and two sanyo denkis along with two thermaltake thunderball fans (they dont do much though) and the flow is good with low noise.

But when i was running only the thunderballs i was getting literally no flow at 7volts.. but wit the new fans I get plent of flow at 7volts.

nik, I was talking about heatercores with shrouds like the one weapon makes and also the 120.3's. With similar fans the two perform rather equally as far as i know.

ph i took a look at those graphs and they are pretty tripppy. would have never though that more flow would decrease the bix and bip's performance after 1.5gpm or so.. I know that bill mentioned it a while back and he didnt have an explanation. Is there any now.

Also noticed that with lower power fans the bip outperforms the bix. Though i really didnt understand the abreviations he used for the fans so im still wondering which ones he used.

Now what im curious about is which will perform bettter in teh same loop. the single pass bip 120.3 or the dual pass? it would be greatly appreciated if you have any info on this coming our way pH. Its a pitty that your flow meter tops out around 3gpm as i am curios to see how much the flow will increase with the dual pass. I guess you could test it with the g5 as it is incredibly restrictive and will keep things under the asymptote of the flow meter

dacooltech · 12-26-2004, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Though i really didnt understand the abreviations he used for the fans so im still wondering which ones he used.

Papst 4412 FGL and WFB1212 series Delta fans

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Its a pitty that your flow meter tops out around 3gpm as i am curios to see how much the flow will increase with the dual pass.

flow increase with dual pass vs the single pass ?

Single vs dual pass

[BR]

brucoman · 12-26-2004, 10:32 AM

pH DOES have a mag flowmeter that ranges from 0.6 to 20.0 gpm, IF he can acquire proper flanges to connect it...

BillA · 12-26-2004, 12:11 PM

what's he looking for ?
an adaptor from sanitary to ANSI 150# or NPT ?
size of flow meter conns ?

brucoman · 12-26-2004, 12:58 PM

.5" tube, wafer type housing needing 2 teflon gaskets with 4 bolt ANSI/ASME 150# flanges w/pitch cirlce dia. 2.6", preferrably with 1/2" pipe thread/weld with pipe predone

BillA · 12-26-2004, 01:32 PM

huh ?

get 2 CPVC ASA 150# flanges with 1/2 NPT hubs, use 1/8" red rubber sheet to cut 2 flat gaskets, get 4 bolts of the appropriate length, 8 flat washers and 4 Ni-locks
- for the ground screw in 2 copper tubing adapters with a copper strap soldered on for the grounding wires

McMaster has it all if the local hardware does not
I have 3 set up this way, I cut out the lip on the flange ID with a knife to open the bore and reduce turbulence - then cut the gasket ID to fit that dia (the gasket OD need extend only past the sealing grooves on the flange face)

brucoman · 12-26-2004, 05:23 PM

that would take care of it, had not thought of plastics for that as I only have access to 304/316SS

pH, you paying attention?

Weapon · 12-26-2004, 10:30 PM

that is a very nice looking rad and the single pass mod will = much less flow restriction for sure.

I think it would fit in the case I am currently modding as well:

^For size reference, the beige object in the lower left corner of the pic is a standard four 5.25" bay mid tower. The silver enclosure sitting on top of the cabinet is the PSU. It's amazing what you can find if you go digging through small town computer stores...

Anyway, how much standoff does the housing on that one place between the fins and the fans? Is it still around 10mm (based on the BIX I have on hand) or have they increased it? We have been batting the idea of a shroud for that one and another for the 120.3 back and forth but it is definitely on the back burner at the moment. hmmm...Does that one still have a 360mm core with 133mm overall width? A shroud divided into 3 chambers with 45mm of standoff would be interesting.

jaydee · 12-26-2004, 10:36 PM

I like the rad but I don't want to have to install it. I would like a single 120mm version. Top performance not required. Hell, all my comps are air cooled right now.

Etacovda · 12-27-2004, 01:45 AM

Jd - same here, i have 4 comps running in this room as i speak, and 3 of them have stock cooling (lol)

Much work left to do on my main rig (ill post up a log in the modding section when ive finished the modifications) plus other projects over the next few weeks will be taking my time up.

pH - is that rad going to be for testing purposes, or a nice pressy for your rig

?

Uncle`BuZZ · 12-27-2004, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etacovda

pH - is that rad going to be for testing purposes, or a nice pressy for your rig

?

IMHO it would be a bad idea to use it for testing purposes because more efficient the rad is, more results are difficult to rank...

It's easier to determine the better WB if there is 0.5-1°C between each results than if there is only 0.1°C, first case reduces influence of measure error.

BillA · 12-27-2004, 10:08 AM

what is one doing using a rad to test wbs ?
chillers are used to control the coolant temp

pHaestus · 12-27-2004, 10:15 AM

This radiator is going into my external radiator box TODAY and I am going to move my gaming system over to the Lian Li. The system will have an Aquaxtreme pump or a D4 (if it's quiet enough for my tastes) and the CPU will be cooled with a Storm G5. Turns out that with the BI Pro3 radiator my PSU won't fit in the external box any more so I have to rewire it AGAIN to fit in the 5/25" bays. Lame. I may just go buy another PSU...

Etacovda · 12-27-2004, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle`BuZZ

IMHO it would be a bad idea to use it for testing purposes because more efficient the rad is, more results are difficult to rank...

It's easier to determine the better WB if there is 0.5-1°C between each results than if there is only 0.1°C, first case reduces influence of measure error.

I was talking along the lines of say, single vs double pass rad tests, nothing to do with waterblocks.

pH - I guess that rig takes you out of the 'mainstream', eh

12-24-2004, 05:05 PM	#27
MaxxxRacer Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 310	nik is completely mainstream. Doesnt everyone have an rd30 and a 24volt dedicated power supply in their case? I have a quick question. That rad looks pretty amazing, but can it compete with a dual heatercore (2-302) with a good shroud and some sanyo denki fans? From what I can see this rad is custom tailored for low restriction for the fans and for the water flow. good for quiet, but will it keep up with the high performance rads we have now? __________________ Excuse me, I believe you have my stapler.

12-24-2004, 09:43 PM	#28
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	hahah that thing is one step short of being a F'n Ford Fiesta radiator just make the inlets a lil bigger hehe __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-25-2004, 04:15 PM	#31
MaxxxRacer Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 310	pH, with the dual heatercore that I have, I get very acceptable noise levles (ive gotten picky with my watercooling), I still get considerably good flow. Actually surprisingly good air flow. I use a shroud and two sanyo denkis along with two thermaltake thunderball fans (they dont do much though) and the flow is good with low noise. But when i was running only the thunderballs i was getting literally no flow at 7volts.. but wit the new fans I get plent of flow at 7volts. nik, I was talking about heatercores with shrouds like the one weapon makes and also the 120.3's. With similar fans the two perform rather equally as far as i know. ph i took a look at those graphs and they are pretty tripppy. would have never though that more flow would decrease the bix and bip's performance after 1.5gpm or so.. I know that bill mentioned it a while back and he didnt have an explanation. Is there any now. Also noticed that with lower power fans the bip outperforms the bix. Though i really didnt understand the abreviations he used for the fans so im still wondering which ones he used. Now what im curious about is which will perform bettter in teh same loop. the single pass bip 120.3 or the dual pass? it would be greatly appreciated if you have any info on this coming our way pH. Its a pitty that your flow meter tops out around 3gpm as i am curios to see how much the flow will increase with the dual pass. I guess you could test it with the g5 as it is incredibly restrictive and will keep things under the asymptote of the flow meter __________________ Excuse me, I believe you have my stapler.

12-26-2004, 10:30 PM	#38
Weapon Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 7	that is a very nice looking rad and the single pass mod will = much less flow restriction for sure. I think it would fit in the case I am currently modding as well: ^For size reference, the beige object in the lower left corner of the pic is a standard four 5.25" bay mid tower. The silver enclosure sitting on top of the cabinet is the PSU. It's amazing what you can find if you go digging through small town computer stores... Anyway, how much standoff does the housing on that one place between the fins and the fans? Is it still around 10mm (based on the BIX I have on hand) or have they increased it? We have been batting the idea of a shroud for that one and another for the 120.3 back and forth but it is definitely on the back burner at the moment. hmmm...Does that one still have a 360mm core with 133mm overall width? A shroud divided into 3 chambers with 45mm of standoff would be interesting. __________________ carpe noctem.

12-27-2004, 01:45 AM	#40
Etacovda Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dunedin NZ Posts: 735	Jd - same here, i have 4 comps running in this room as i speak, and 3 of them have stock cooling (lol) Much work left to do on my main rig (ill post up a log in the modding section when ive finished the modifications) plus other projects over the next few weeks will be taking my time up. pH - is that rad going to be for testing purposes, or a nice pressy for your rig ? __________________ Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights.

12-21-2004, 11:18 AM	#26
brucoman Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 157	sure he is! RD-30 feeding 2 G4's

12-25-2004, 12:20 PM	#30
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I like this graph from Bill's Thermochill testing: http://thermal-management-testing.com/Thermo16.gif See how with the 120.3 and 7V fans you can get similar dissipation to 120.3 and 12V. Now look at this post: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...8&postcount=23 And it becomes clear that if you are running undervolted/quiet fans that the thinner radiator with larger facial area should be at a big advantage. You have to use fans louder than Panaflo M1As (and IMO 3 of those at 12V would be unacceptably noisy) to get better performance with a thicker radiator than with a Pro. Presumably a 2" thick heatercore would have an even more pronounced effect (but the facial area is larger due to their width so it's somewhat offset). So if you had one of those heatercores with 2 Delta VHE or SHE fans at 12V then it'd outperform this radiator but at a ridiculous noise level...

12-26-2004, 10:32 AM	#33
brucoman Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 157	pH DOES have a mag flowmeter that ranges from 0.6 to 20.0 gpm, IF he can acquire proper flanges to connect it...

12-26-2004, 12:11 PM	#34
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	what's he looking for ? an adaptor from sanitary to ANSI 150# or NPT ? size of flow meter conns ?

12-26-2004, 12:58 PM	#35
brucoman Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 157	.5" tube, wafer type housing needing 2 teflon gaskets with 4 bolt ANSI/ASME 150# flanges w/pitch cirlce dia. 2.6", preferrably with 1/2" pipe thread/weld with pipe predone

12-26-2004, 01:32 PM	#36
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	huh ? get 2 CPVC ASA 150# flanges with 1/2 NPT hubs, use 1/8" red rubber sheet to cut 2 flat gaskets, get 4 bolts of the appropriate length, 8 flat washers and 4 Ni-locks - for the ground screw in 2 copper tubing adapters with a copper strap soldered on for the grounding wires McMaster has it all if the local hardware does not I have 3 set up this way, I cut out the lip on the flange ID with a knife to open the bore and reduce turbulence - then cut the gasket ID to fit that dia (the gasket OD need extend only past the sealing grooves on the flange face)

12-26-2004, 05:23 PM	#37
brucoman Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 157	that would take care of it, had not thought of plastics for that as I only have access to 304/316SS pH, you paying attention?

12-26-2004, 10:36 PM	#39
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I like the rad but I don't want to have to install it. I would like a single 120mm version. Top performance not required. Hell, all my comps are air cooled right now.

12-27-2004, 10:08 AM	#42
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	what is one doing using a rad to test wbs ? chillers are used to control the coolant temp

12-27-2004, 10:15 AM	#43
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	This radiator is going into my external radiator box TODAY and I am going to move my gaming system over to the Lian Li. The system will have an Aquaxtreme pump or a D4 (if it's quiet enough for my tastes) and the CPU will be cooled with a Storm G5. Turns out that with the BI Pro3 radiator my PSU won't fit in the external box any more so I have to rewire it AGAIN to fit in the 5/25" bays. Lame. I may just go buy another PSU...

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