Common pump P-Q Curves (graph inside) - Page 3

BillA · 07-29-2004, 12:41 PM

yea, tricky setup needed - with more tricks than I have

Groth · 07-31-2004, 03:40 AM

A loop with aux.pump>target pump>valve>flowmeter>. Have pressure sensors at the inlet and outlet of the target pump, and use the valve to the throttle the flow to the point that dP across the target pump is zero.

BillA · 07-31-2004, 09:08 AM

nope, have to throttle the aux pump too
kinda interactive

I'll google it later

bobkoure · 07-31-2004, 09:33 AM

There are lots of pump curves published by pump manufacturers.
What exactly do they (the pump mfgrs) do to get these curves?
Bill - maybe you could call the manufacturer of the Swiftech pump and ask them for some guidance? It's a good pump and any kind of fair measurement between pumps is (IMHO) going to show it off very well, so hopefully they won't feel any urges towards obsfucation.
There might even turn out to be different "standard" ways to define water column height, which might explain some of the discrepancies we see.
I've just gone looking across pump manufacturer/distributor web sites, and ran across some (IMHO) very good tech intros at Goulds Pumps - particularly Introduction to Pumps Reading Curves (IMHO+BTW appropriate for the ProCooling "links" section). There's mention in there of a Hydraulic Institute - and it looks as though they are working on some pump output measurement standards (looks a lot like ANSI - in that you don't get to look at the standards unless your organization "joins"). Maybe the manufacturer Swiftech is dealing with is already a member(?) Think it's worth asking?
Bob

Groth · 07-31-2004, 09:35 AM

That's what the valve does, throttles the aux to the point where the pressure it produces is equal to the drop from the valve/flowmeter/piping and its flow is equal to the target's 0-head flow.

pHaestus · 07-31-2004, 10:08 AM

The 0 head point is not of much use if one is testing pumps for our purposes anyway.

A question though: Would anyone believe me if I were to test a well-regarded pump and its P-Q curve were substantially (a) worse or (b) better than the mfgr P-Q curve? MAYBE a few people, but not many. So I put pump testing down low on the priority list. Exception would be 12V pumps over a wide range of voltage/PWM; THAT would be useful and interesting to many.

BillA · 07-31-2004, 11:37 AM

sorry Groth, I misunderstood
was thinking to generate the entire curve

pH
for sure there is some sort of ind std, I'll dig it up
the truly serious ones I have are in Hungarian, and for an old product

bobkoure
the data from Laing is the best I've seen, but the stds cited are not available here (or in English ?)

bobkoure · 07-31-2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

The 0 head point is not of much use if one is testing pumps for our purposes anyway.

Well, yeah - but how do you get 1' right if you don't know how to get 0?
You're right that it should be low on your priority list.

Groth · 07-31-2004, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

was thinking to generate the entire curve

You could generate the whole curve that way. But after the target's dP excedes the equipments', the risk of inaccuracy from injecting turbulence into the target's inlet reduces the aux's value.

Razor6 · 11-19-2004, 01:11 AM

Since the MCP-350 is now on Swiftech's site I figure it's time for an updated graph for this official pump thread.

Incoherent · 11-19-2004, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor6

Since the MCP-350 is now on Swiftech's site I figure it's time for an updated graph for this official pump thread.

Thanks for your efforts Razor6

Do you happen to have the data for these curves? or is it just an image? If so would you be able to attach it please. I find Datathief annoying.

Thanks

Jag · 11-19-2004, 05:49 AM

The MCP350 is on the Swiftech site? Where exactly?
I just visited their site, and there's no mention of this product.

lolito_fr · 11-19-2004, 06:36 AM

http://swiftnets.com/products/mcp350.asp
Someone posted it in the DDC thread

Jag · 11-19-2004, 08:01 AM

Thank you Lolito_fr, had missed that.

BillA · 11-19-2004, 08:47 AM

jeez, and I have missed it too

Razor6 · 11-19-2004, 04:44 PM

Attached are the raw values for the graph. You'll need to change the extension to xls because the forum doesn't accept that extension.

Incoherent · 11-19-2004, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor6

Attached are the raw values for the graph. You'll need to change the extension to xls because the forum doesn't accept that extension.

Thanks Heaps. Saves me some tedium.

l3ored · 02-23-2005, 01:03 AM

i made a graph comparing the ddc and eheim 1048.

did it by taking eheim's p/q chart and stretching/skewing over the swiftech's ddc chart. to read it, the swiftech chart is lpm in incriments of one, by head in meters, incriments of .5. the eheim chart is gph, incs of 20, and feet, incs of 1. sorry i'm such a lazy bastard that i cant compute each point and render a cleaner graph, but this works if you have the patience to figure it out.

Razor6 · 06-04-2005, 10:45 PM

New pumps, new graph, added the D5 and a simple version of the C-Systems MAG based on what D-TEK says.

BRiT · 06-05-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor6

New pumps, new graph, added the D5 and a simple version of the C-Systems MAG based on what D-TEK says.

Good job! Any chance of making the new data available?

I took the earlier set of data available and added some for the RD30@18V, 20PIZ, and BlueLine-800 -- eyeballed from Cathar's post and mfg's datasheets. Rename the file from pumpdata.txt to pumpdata.xls.

Razor6 · 06-06-2005, 01:38 AM

The data.

Code:

D5 at #5 (From DD graph)
0	12.55
52.8	10.94
105.7	8.85
158.5	6.29
211.3	3.91
264.2	0.84
277.4	0

C-Systems MAG
0	7.7
137.5	0

Dave · 07-13-2005, 04:01 PM

^ Looks about right, using DD or D-Tek 1/2" tubing adaptor.

Just note, our data is based on 12.5-13V, not 12V.

Most power supplies run at 12.6 volts, as we tested.

I will do a series MAG test this weekend, using DD's fitting and post results.

Dave

** Note 12.6 volts is average of 10 different power supplies we tested. It was suggested to me that I do not indicate all supplies run above 12V, as it can be mis-leading, which is the last thing we want.

stev · 08-19-2005, 08:42 AM

RoboTech made these charts via calibrated test equipment.
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-01.html

IndianaCouple · 09-12-2005, 11:59 AM

Does anyone here think a Magnum 350 aquarium pump would be useful? I can't find any meaningful data on it, but I have one in new condition. The rotor is magnetically driven and I believe the filter housing is approimately 1.25 qt. Thanks for any info!

lukr · 09-22-2005, 12:28 PM

second part of Cooling-Masters pump comparsion.
>link(googlish)<
they have too much free time

edit: copy&paste the URL to a new window if u want the translated version.

07-31-2004, 10:08 AM	#56
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	The 0 head point is not of much use if one is testing pumps for our purposes anyway. A question though: Would anyone believe me if I were to test a well-regarded pump and its P-Q curve were substantially (a) worse or (b) better than the mfgr P-Q curve? MAYBE a few people, but not many. So I put pump testing down low on the priority list. Exception would be 12V pumps over a wide range of voltage/PWM; THAT would be useful and interesting to many. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

06-06-2005, 01:38 AM	#71
Razor6 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 192	The data. Code: D5 at #5 (From DD graph) 0 12.55 52.8 10.94 105.7 8.85 158.5 6.29 211.3 3.91 264.2 0.84 277.4 0 C-Systems MAG 0 7.7 137.5 0

07-13-2005, 04:01 PM	#72
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	^ Looks about right, using DD or D-Tek 1/2" tubing adaptor. Just note, our data is based on 12.5-13V, not 12V. Most power supplies run at 12.6 volts, as we tested. I will do a series MAG test this weekend, using DD's fitting and post results. Dave ** Note 12.6 volts is average of 10 different power supplies we tested. It was suggested to me that I do not indicate all supplies run above 12V, as it can be mis-leading, which is the last thing we want. Last edited by Dave; 07-13-2005 at 05:10 PM.

09-22-2005, 12:28 PM	#75
lukr Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hungary Posts: 23	second part of Cooling-Masters pump comparsion. >link(googlish)< they have too much free time edit: copy&paste the URL to a new window if u want the translated version. Last edited by lukr; 09-22-2005 at 02:45 PM.

07-29-2004, 12:41 PM	#51
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	yea, tricky setup needed - with more tricks than I have

07-31-2004, 03:40 AM	#52
Groth Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MO Posts: 781	A loop with aux.pump>target pump>valve>flowmeter>. Have pressure sensors at the inlet and outlet of the target pump, and use the valve to the throttle the flow to the point that dP across the target pump is zero.

07-31-2004, 09:08 AM	#53
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	nope, have to throttle the aux pump too kinda interactive I'll google it later

07-31-2004, 09:33 AM	#54
bobkoure Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA - Boston area Posts: 798	There are lots of pump curves published by pump manufacturers. What exactly do they (the pump mfgrs) do to get these curves? Bill - maybe you could call the manufacturer of the Swiftech pump and ask them for some guidance? It's a good pump and any kind of fair measurement between pumps is (IMHO) going to show it off very well, so hopefully they won't feel any urges towards obsfucation. There might even turn out to be different "standard" ways to define water column height, which might explain some of the discrepancies we see. I've just gone looking across pump manufacturer/distributor web sites, and ran across some (IMHO) very good tech intros at Goulds Pumps - particularly Introduction to Pumps Reading Curves (IMHO+BTW appropriate for the ProCooling "links" section). There's mention in there of a Hydraulic Institute - and it looks as though they are working on some pump output measurement standards (looks a lot like ANSI - in that you don't get to look at the standards unless your organization "joins"). Maybe the manufacturer Swiftech is dealing with is already a member(?) Think it's worth asking? Bob

07-31-2004, 09:35 AM	#55
Groth Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MO Posts: 781	That's what the valve does, throttles the aux to the point where the pressure it produces is equal to the drop from the valve/flowmeter/piping and its flow is equal to the target's 0-head flow.

07-31-2004, 11:37 AM	#57
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	sorry Groth, I misunderstood was thinking to generate the entire curve pH for sure there is some sort of ind std, I'll dig it up the truly serious ones I have are in Hungarian, and for an old product bobkoure the data from Laing is the best I've seen, but the stds cited are not available here (or in English ?)

11-19-2004, 05:49 AM	#62
Jag Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 179	The MCP350 is on the Swiftech site? Where exactly? I just visited their site, and there's no mention of this product.

11-19-2004, 06:36 AM	#63
lolito_fr Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: France Posts: 291	http://swiftnets.com/products/mcp350.asp Someone posted it in the DDC thread

11-19-2004, 08:01 AM	#64
Jag Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 179	Thank you Lolito_fr, had missed that.

11-19-2004, 08:47 AM	#65
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	jeez, and I have missed it too

02-23-2005, 01:03 AM	#68
l3ored Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: ur mom's bed Posts: 8	i made a graph comparing the ddc and eheim 1048. did it by taking eheim's p/q chart and stretching/skewing over the swiftech's ddc chart. to read it, the swiftech chart is lpm in incriments of one, by head in meters, incriments of .5. the eheim chart is gph, incs of 20, and feet, incs of 1. sorry i'm such a lazy bastard that i cant compute each point and render a cleaner graph, but this works if you have the patience to figure it out.

08-19-2005, 08:42 AM	#73
stev Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: niagara falls Posts: 96	RoboTech made these charts via calibrated test equipment. http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-01.html

09-12-2005, 11:59 AM	#74
IndianaCouple Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 29	Does anyone here think a Magnum 350 aquarium pump would be useful? I can't find any meaningful data on it, but I have one in new condition. The rotor is magnetically driven and I believe the filter housing is approimately 1.25 qt. Thanks for any info!

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