cooling basics

[dht_99]

evening all, hope this can be of help to a few of you its just a few point you might find usefull in your cooling systems. im relatively new to the world of performance computers but ive got 8 years of experience in engine building and race car aero so hopefully itl be of some use to you.

When i built a setup for few mates of mine (and the same system im building now) i was appaled at the amount of money people were spending to get was is quite ineffective cooling.
First off how vital is it to you that everything is contained inside the case? on all the builds ive done ive always insisted on a rad outside of the case. Its completely illogical to take heat away from a system only to have the fan blow the heat from the rad straight back over the areas youve just cooled and raise the ambient temperature again. Youl never be able to cool every nook and cranny but drop the ambient temps and you find everything runs a whole lot smoother. my setups have all had external rad boxes with 2 rads mounted at 45degs one above the other so they form a point with the fans sucking through into the v. Its the most efficient way to cool them without having them laying flat with the fans sucking up through them but that takes up more space.
We also used ally 'tunnels' around the mobo to completely seal it in in its own air venturi to get as much air speed as possible over the board and keep the noise of the suck and the blow fan in.
one of the setups was used heavily for long hours every day so to keep it even cooler the fans and rad blowers were ducted down through the ceilings fromt he roof eaves and through a drypack filter very cool if the misses will let you get away with it!
The other advantage of an enclosed ducted system is you can get huge airspeeds and efficient cooling without any of the noise and with far less power, if i had to design something to stop laminair flow it would be the inside of a computer case
And finally the most important point in any fan cooled system (and most bedroom activities hehe) SUCK dont blow. without going into the physics of it a vacuum will even its self out around objects in its way with minimal hassle, a pressured air wave like that from a fan will hit stuff and bounce off all over the place destroying the airflow. Straight smooth airflow is fat and fast airflow cools.

hope that can help some people with the basics of a good system, after all a poor design with a big rad and loads of fans is a lot noisier and more complicated than a good system with few components. And my apologies to anyone that this is below but ive seen some of the systems used by people and hopefully that can out them back on the right track

[dht_99]

p.s il try and get some picks of the air tunnels and rad boxes this weekend for you with some system stats and temps

[billbartuska]

Originally Posted by dht_99

p.s il try and get some picks of the air tunnels and rad boxes this weekend for you with some system stats and temps

You, sir, are way ahead of most of today's water coolers. ...the ones that put all their case fans blowing in..because that's where they want to air to go! etc..

I too have been "troubled" about adding a rad to a case...hot case air through the rad or hot rad air into the case...both loosing propositions.

On a side note, I crew chief for a two car SCCA road race team and help out with a couple of other cars. I'd like to hear about some of your "8 years of experience in... race car aero". Perhaps in the Pro/Car and Motorsports forum here? Always looking for ways to interpret the rules as broadly as can be gotten away with.

[dht_99]

Evening mate,

It just seems a tiny bit crazy to spend all that money on a top end setup and cooling system and then blow hot air over it all haha

Ive been in and around racing of various forms since i was 8 or 9. most recently drag racing in pro-et and pro stock with analysis and input on two top fuel teams aero setup. TBH most of my experience is in engine and transmission building aerodynamics was sort of a hobby formed through enginebay layout and cooling. I did a year studying fluid dynamic basics at university but dropped out as apart from the fuel crucial rules most if it is useless at the low speeds cars travel (compared to aircraft etc) and a few basic theories solve 99.9% of problems. My real center piece was a car develped with an ex f1 engineer for no reason other than we both wanted to see what you could do using the technology the racing world had banned i.e active dowforce, ground effect df, hydralic valve operations (i.e no cams) etc etc. The final car (based on a road going rx7 chassis, strengthened and seam welded) held 5.1g's offside cornering force at silverstone in 2004 before the tyres let go. Nearly level with an f1 car and not damn bad for what could still be road legal if you had a friendly mot tester!
What are the regs like in your groups?

Back to the world of electrical speed, if i had the space id have the setup completely flat with direct laminar ducting from and exterior wall and straight out the other side but i cant get away with it at the minute haha although we had some experiments with a chimney type setup on a unit in a sealed box whereby the top pipe (approx 3" od ran from the top of the box up3ft to open air and the tube attached by a 45deg bend piece at the bottom of the box stopped approx 2 1/2 foot above the box. As the board started to heat up you could feel the cold air being sucked forcibly into the inlet tube due to the heated air rising out of the top pipe.
Never took it any further than that but well worth a look especially with a fan or to in each duct to help keep the momentum going

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by dht_99

The final car (based on a road going rx7 chassis...

As an RX-7 owner, I demand pictures!

[dht_99]

ahh a fellow wankel lol Il get pics up when my machines back up and running. Its and fd3 chassis. Ive also just brought a mint bathurst edition as a present to myself. What are you driving?

[ben333]

How'd you like to write an article for procooling? It'd be great if someone would finally put an end to the idea of air being better than water You have some really great ideas, PM or IM me if you want to

[dht_99]

lol Now i never said better than water cooling lol remember even in a water cooled system you need air cooling to shift the heat from the water unlees its an open coolant circuit in which case ur gonna have a huge water bill lol
All im saying is that a lot of the systems that are running water cooling could be could far more simply and more reliably with a few basic parts and a bit of know how. il cover the basic principles and stuff in a sticky if you want

[ben333]

I know that lol. I'm saying a lot of people stopped watercooling because air and conduction only cooling was quieter. But a well designed water cooling system (which dose of course involve air) can be very effective and quiet. I'm basically asking for a formal thread about a cost friendly quiet and effective water cooling system. I'd sticky the thread and then have joe publish it in the articles section if it was good

[dht_99]

Just a qucik thought that popped into my head earlier, not given it more than 2 mins thought so it might be mad but what if you get all ur boards and everything into the smallest box u can like a waterproof electrical connection box, seal all the inlets and wire entrys with submergable grommets and then put the box under a low vaccum. So now weve got a box with very little in the way of moisture and no entrys (chuck a few silica packs in for good luck if needs be). Then on top of the cpu and vgu chip you run a copper cooling element along the top of the box and insulate the exterior of the case. In theory you could keep every component under zero degrees with no condensation, you dont even have to use a special chiller just stick the whole lot in an old mini freezer lol obviously hard drive , cd drives etc need to stay out and a few ports will need extension looms but it would be awsomley cheap to cool below zero. Im working on a system at the moment as a sideproject that will cool below -30 with not expendables like nitrogen or dry ice and no crazy peltiers

[ben333]

Well sure it would work but Phase change in combination with regular water cooling on the other small parts like north and south bridges can work much better... the idea of freezing a computer has been tossed around for years by many people but its just that some things don't need to be or like to be that cold.

[HammerSandwich]

I've seen the other replies, but it's too much to respond to now. Let's just say that I have a VERY quiet WC rig, and I'm about to OC an E3110 with a Ninja.

Originally Posted by dht_99

What are you driving?

I have a '93 FD. Early production, US Touring model. But I've semit-gutted it. Actually, I've made a LOT of mods without driving it at all, so this summer should be a learning experience.

My basic setup is an intake, non-sequential turbos, bigger IC, street-port and full exhaust. I ported the wastegate and have a Power FC that requires tuning. A few ceramic coatings and reliability mods. The suspension is Koni Yellows with a Ground Control coil-over kit with springs at 500F/350R. The engine has maybe 15k on it, so I'm hoping to keep things conservative at maybe 12psi & 320rwhp. We'll see how it turns out.

My driving is definitely rusty now, since I haven't raced karts in 5+ years. But the RX will be a blast to drive. I just have to get it dialed in.