God Damn Washington State

[airspirit]

I think I have finally had it with the incompetance of government. I was pulled over last night for failure to use a turn signal (it is a "Y" intersection, and technically I don't NEED to use my turn signal there, but that is beside the point). The cop didn't give me a ticket and I went on my way. An hour later, the cop appeared at my door to give me a misdemeanor citation for driving on a suspended license in Washington state stemming from mid-2001, which expires on 1/28/03 (wtf, 2 days left and I'm just finding out???!!!). I was like, "What the f*ck are you talking about? I've been living in Idaho for the last three years!" The cop didn't have any more information, and told me to ask the prosecutor's office about it. Understand, at this point I was extremely mad: in Idaho, standard sentencing on this is six days in jail and a $380 fine.

The next day, the prosecutor's office refused to look into the cause of the suspension, and told me to contact WA DMV for information, so I did. They said that it was stemming from an accident I had in 2000, in which the gal that hit me and I were going to go to court to determine fault and who was financially responsible to whom. She never took it to court, and since my car was only worth a couple of hundred dollars anyway and still ran, I just blew it off. I figured she came to the conclusion that I had: she had no case.

Well, Washington State requires reporting of outcomes of such contests, and since one wasn't reported, they suspended both of our licenses until we reported whether there was suit, and if so, what the outcome was. The only requirement on each of us was to fill out an affidavit of non-suit, and we'd have our licenses back. There are no fees or fines: just one piece of paper through the fax machine. That would have been an easy thing to take care of ... if they had bothered to notify me.

When I questioned the DMV rep, she said that no notice was ever mailed, but she'd be more than happy to mail the form out to me. So here I am with criminal charges hanging over my head because WA didn't bother to send out notice of their actions, and my wife has to drive me to work and back (50 miles a day). I am so f*cking angry I could strangle someone, but really there is nothing I can do. Where do governments get off on unilaterally punishing people and not bothering to tell them? Now I'm at the mercy of some c*cksmoking prosecutor who gets paid to lock people up ... and I have no recourse but to bend over and take it.

[bigben2k]

You may be able to get rid of it all: where I'm from (Canada), it's not permitted to suspend someone's license without notifying the license holder. It's going to come down to them proving that they made a reasonable effort to contact you (i.e. registered mail that is returned).

You might try contacting an Idaho politician.

[airspirit]

Oddly enough, my license was automatically reinstated today (end of administrative suspension). They attempted to send a registered letter to my last WA address, even though they were notified of my move to Idaho and my WA driver's license was surrendered to get my Idaho license. Since they had my current address and didn't bother to use it, I would consider that negligence. You can't just throw out a letter to an address that you know to be incorrect and restrict mail forwarding.

[Joe]

Welcome to the club. I got pulled over a while back and ended up having my car towed because they told me my license was suspended!... No notice, nothing. Turns out because I paid a fine on the day it was due they see fit to suspend my license!... wtf!

sucked, but I got out of it ok.

[bigben2k]

Then all you have to do is show that you provided the DMV with your address change, before they sent you that registered letter. The longer, the better (what was it, at least two years?).

IF your current license shows the emission date, you're all set. Of course you should check if Washington gets your address change, when you surrendered your WA license to Idaho (this'll involve asking ID's DMV what their procedure is, and may be just like finding a needle in a haystack). (You'd also have to get that in writing.)

Even better: if you could prove that you never were in WA state at the time of the alleged offense ("misdemeanor citation for driving on a suspended license in Washington state"), then that should take care of it too. Of course it's near impossible to do that. Your wife could make a good witness.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope that the authorities will see it for what it is: an administrative SNAFU, and dismiss it all.:shrug:

[jaydee]

I am in Spokane WA not to far from you and I hear you. The traffic division of the police is an utter joke. Thats about all I can say.

[TerraMex]

Its seems to be an international problem. The traffic police here has one cop in the offices during the graveyard shift (wow, one hole cop).

One of the most hilarious things i've seen was an accident that happened 50m from the police station, on a work day afternood, and took one hour to a squad car to arrive. That's your tax dollars at work. I bet they took the scenic route.

[airspirit]

I guess I wasn't clear, Ben. While the suspension was on my WA State drivers license, the suspended license charge was issued on Sunday in Idaho. The question really revolves around whether or not the Idaho prosecutor will realize that I had no way of knowing that I was suspended in the first place.

Timeline:
Accident - 1/28/00
Move to Idaho, notice of move to WA - 6/16/00
Receive Idaho drivers license/surrender WA drivers license - 12/13/00
WA license suspension - 7/15/01
Misdemeanor charge - 1/26/03
Suspension ends - 1/28/03

I now have my license back, since as an administrative action there is nothing I need to do to get it back. Further, if I wouldn't have been pulled over, I would never have known my license was ever suspended. I'm going to go see the prosecutor today (in an hour) and see if there is anything I can do to "work this out". It's not an election year, so maybe they won't be itching for a high conviction count, /me hopes.

[BillA]

more laws, more criminals
bigger budget for all the law-and-order folks (Hi there Joe)

the challenge to citizens is how to restrain 'their' government

read "Systemantics"

[Joe]

hehe I am a geek not a law and order geek. But I gotta admit, I have had the pleasure of seeing many a dead beat be thrown in jail

[airspirit]

This gets even more entertaining. The prosecutor that handles misdemeanor cases only comes to the office less than 20 hours a week ... most weeks under 10 hours. This will be fun trying to track the bugger down since he won't return calls.

I figure I'll argue inadequate notification. The state of Washington didn't use due diligence in notifying me of my suspended status preventing me from correcting the problem in a lawful manner. In some ways it borders on entrapment, as I couldn't know that my license was invalid until I was criminally charged, or I coincidentally requested my driving status on the off-chance that they screwed up ... though how many people ever do that? Most people count on their government agencies to function correctly, or at least responsibly when dealing with issues such as this. If the prosecutor is an ass about this, I'm going to hire an attorney. I've decided that I can't be bothered dealing with this and possibly losing my jobs to this (PR would suffer due to criminal conviction).

[gogo]

Here in Alaska they just started requiring you to carry proof of insurance. There was no press release of a major sort. I did find a small article in the local papers archives. It recently started to make the paper as the State troopers started to act upon it in force. most people were caught unaware, at least here in Anchorage. It's mostly being treated as an "ignorance of the law is no excuse" (not my opinion, at least not when it's buried) the only clear mention I ever found was here .

My point is your probably screwed.

pretty steep fine for not carring a piece of paper.

[bigben2k]

"There are only 10 types of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
LOL! I just noticed!


I think that in this case, ignorance may not be relevant, unless there is a written statement somewhere (innaccessible, probably) that would require one to signify a change of address to both states.

As with a lot of law changes, there's usually an adaptation period: old timers don't change their habits too quickly. So it falls down to law enforcement to make a judgement call, right there, on the streets. Not good.

Now if there was a way for the state/country to communicate something to all of its citizens, cheaply, and assuredly... oh but wait, that would require a communication infrastructure

I say give everyone a citizen login ID and internet access. Power to the people!

[BillA]

broaden your scope Ben

geosynchronis (sp ?) satellites, implanted chips wired to the pain centers
- apply a couple of millivolts at the whim of YOUR benign government

or let the “many a dead beat be thrown in jail”

do sheep know how to cry ? (we know they can bleet loudly, eh ?)

[airspirit]

They had, and have, my current address on file from when I surrendered my WA license to get an Idaho one. The rep at DMV couldn't tell me why they tryed sending notice to an address that I used two license changes ago (i.e., they f*cked up in a major way, and it is inexcusable). They should have known something was wrong when their failed attempt to a known incorrect address through registered mail came back to them, but they didn't act. What happened is that they tried to send notice to the address I was living at at the time of the accident, because the person that handled the administrative suspension was too lazy to check their own system for a possible address update.

You like that sig? Most people go, "what the f*ck is he talking about? First he says ten, then two ...." It's good for chuckles.

[airspirit]

I guess what it comes down to is that the state is responsible for notification of these matters, and their attempt was negligent, to say the least. I'm digging through WA and ID law now.

[airspirit]

The Department receives information on all collisions occurring in Washington State from the Washington State Patrol (WSP). If the property damage is more than $700.00 or there was an injury, the Department reviews the information to determine if one or more of the drivers was/were uninsured, and if there is a reasonable possibility of a judgment being filed against an uninsured driver. If there appears to be a reasonable possibility of a judgment being filed against the uninsured driver, the Department will then mail a notice to the injured party(s) requesting further information as to the amount of damages and injuries. Often, this information is provided in the form of a subrogation letter from the insured driver's insurance company.

If the department has received the necessary information within 180 days from the date of the collision, the department will create case file with this information, and will initiate suspension action against both the driver and owner of the uninsured vehicle. The Department will mail suspension notices to both the driver and owner of the vehicle, and allow sixty (60) days for the driver and/or owner to satisfy the damages from the collision.

To avoid the suspension action, the uninsured driver/owner may do any of the following:

1. Provide proof of insurance in effect at the time of collision;
2. Provide a signed release from all persons involved releasing the driver/owner from claim from the collision;
3. Provide a copy of a written agreement, with all persons seeking reimbursement, and includes the settlement amount and signature of all persons making the agreement;
4. Provide proof that security has been deposited in the amount of damages from the collision and proof of financial responsibility for the future;
5. Provide a certified copy of a civil court decision showing that the uninsured driver/owner were not liable for claims.

The driver and/or owner may appeal the suspension of their driving privilege and request an interview with a Hearing Officer to review the details of the incident and any supporting documentation.

If the driver and/or owner do not respond nor satisfy the requirements, the suspension of the driving privilege will be become effective.

-------------------
This is from the WA DMV site. They did not provide adequate notice as listed in their guidelines before suspending my license. The action we were going to take was listed in item (5) of this quote, but she never initiated any action in court. As I was not properly notified of any impending action, they couldn't lawfully revoke my license. They have no excuse for sending the information out to a known invalid address. I'm going to pull the exact reference passages from the RCW and I think this will go away very quickly. This isn't a case of ignorance of the law, this was a case of the law being ignorant.

[Bignuts]

Double the law enforcement budget.

All increases go to hiring and supporting inspectors, not traffic cops.

[bigben2k]

Digging up old threads...

Whatever happened, Airspirit?

[airspirit]

It got summarily dismissed when I showed the prosecutor how WA state screwed up. Since there is a requirement on the part of the state of Washington that they make a good faith attempt to notify me in any case in which my legal status has changed and they didn't, I couldn't be held liable for their screw-ups.

The prosecutor was good humored about the whole thing, and really appreciated how I recorded conversations with the various people I talked to and had print copies of all the pertinent data. Being in Idaho, I can legally record whoever the heck I want without notifying them regardless of foreign state law, so even if the prosecutor decided they wanted to try to rail me I would be able to get it dismissed during the early phases of trial (most likely the omnibus phase) due to improper application of the law. I had ample evidence and since I was recording my conversations with the prosecutor as well (this is habit in any transaction of significance ... and has saved my ass before) while showing him the undisputable proof of innocence, that even if he did come after me I could sue for malicious prosecution.

God help the state that tries to knowingly screw me over.

[BillA]

"God help the state that tries to knowingly screw me over."

you dream
been there, in company
if you have something they want, stand and deliver
or be killed, or spend years in prison

no joking with those guys (not talking traffic tickets here)
EOM

[airspirit]

Publicity can be a wonderful thing.

I have a brother-in-law that is now being charged with 2nd degree rape of a minor. Let me give you the whole story before you jump to any conclusions.

He is 18. She is 16 (almost 17). Believe it or not, these relationships are legal in WA because she is both over the age of consent (16) and there is less than a five year age difference between them. They've been dating for a long time until she broke it off three weeks ago. During the course of this relationship they went at it like bunnies. She had two "pregnancy scares" during this time that both turned out to be a case of her being neurotic. Over a week ago he bought her some jewelry and asked her to reconsider ... she ended up screwing his brains out. There were four others who knew both of them very well in the mobile home at the time, and being a mobile everyone could hear what was going on. A week later she went to one of her teachers (who I know very well) and said she thought she was raped. Being required by law he reported it to the police, but also was not very convinced that any such thing had taken place. She was known to be a pathological liar.

Yes, he is very fscking stupid, but that was besides the point by then.

He was arrested later that day and booked into the county jail. He never was told what he was being charged with ... just held. The next morning he was released into his parent's custody and the phone calls and visits started: it turns out that ever since their breakup she had been telling damn near everyone that she was going to screw him over as bad as possible and that she thought she was pregnant (again ... very neurotic ... she couldn't tell yet if she WAS) again.

Here is where motive comes into play. She has a college fund that is being held by her parents. They knew about her relationship (in every way) with my BIL, and told her that if she got pregnant that she wouldn't get the college money. If she got pregnant and cried rape, however ... you get the picture. She was also sleeping with at least four other people at the time of this encounter (those are the ones that have come forward), so perhaps she used my BIL to cover her ass since she wanted to screw him over anyway (pun not intended).

Armed with the four people who "witnessed" the event (and her coming out cheerfully afterwards), the four other guys she was screwing, the large group of people who reported what she was saying prior to the event, and the fact that there is no evidence that things went as she reported (that she was forced and manhandled during the event), there is no case. Now, with this contradicting evidence in hand, the prosecutor's dept still charged him as earlier described. Since then, my ILs have been getting the story out EVERYWHERE (minus the girl's name since she is underage and that would be extremely illegal in WA) about what was happening. Since then, the community has completely withdrew from her family and her (how could you not figure out who it was?), and the prosecutor's office is BEGGING him to cop a plea to minor assault charges.

Instead, my BIL will be fighting this and the charges will probably be dismissed at the fact-finding hearing (there is NO basis for prosecution except for the word of a pathological liar who had already promised to destroy his life prior to this happening), and they will be suing the piss out of her family. They are already also hinting at the prosecutor's office that a suit for malicious prosecution and defamation of character may come into play if they decide to spread my BIL's name around and continue their harassment of him (he has been bombarded by calls from the prosecutor's office to ensure he hasn't fled and to demand that he plead guilty, though it is not their place to do so especially since he has a lawyer). They are also pushing the prosecutor's office to pursue the girl and her family for providing false criminal reports and perjury. The prosecutors don't want to do that even if they do lose, though that seems to be a definite outcome.

The world can be a fscked up place sometimes. They just want to rake some poor kid over the coals to keep their names in the paper for the next election ... at least the judge has given indications that SHE thinks the whole thing is BS. Hopefully she does the right thing at the next court hearing.

[BillA]

that's all well and fine (and I'm glad for you it did so)
but, pardon me - bush league stuff

try: someone who knows the identity of someone else who witnessed a multiple murder of US citizens by a government agency running an illegal processing plant in a foreign country

just guess which government and agencies
as foul a story as could be hatched by a grade B script writer

eagles eat carrion

"Publicity can be a wonderful thing."
and it can also guarantee your immediate death