memory overclocking

phill9700 · 04-10-2003, 12:34 PM

quick question for all you brainy people out there...

will a 512mb dimm overclock the same as a 256mb dimm? even if its the same speed rating, cas rating, etc etc etc..
as performance for me is a much needed thing, im just wondering whether or not it would be worth slowing down (if at all i would be) my machine, just for more memory.
i will be using it for a lot of gaming and video capture when i get the hardware sorted out (anyone have any views on whats good and whats not? i was looking at pinnacle stuff, the dc10+ and the one above it.. any comments will be most welcome)
and as i have one of these new xp1700s that clock to hell and back, i want the best speed i can get from it..
i have been considering this memory lark for a lot of time and all i want is the best stuff i can aford and get because i dont want to have to fork out the more money twice when i could have got it the first time.. you guys know what i mean? also its going in a epox EP-8RDA+ motherboard and i have heard that there might be a few problems with starting it up the first time.. true?
any and every comment most welcome.. thank you to all for the help..

bigben2k · 04-10-2003, 12:38 PM

So... you still haven't made up your mind, huh?

No, 512 will not overclock as nicely as a 256 stick. This is usually because your max OC depends on each RAM chip's ability, and 512 sticks usually have twice the number of chips (aka double-sided).

As I remember, I last pointed you towards your video editing software's system requirements. Have you done that yet?

phill9700 · 04-10-2003, 12:53 PM

well its more down to trying not to spend more than i need to and ending up spending 3x more..
from what i can begin to remember i need lots of memory for video editing..
for gaming i need performance..
so what i was thinking was doing something like this..
getting 2 sticks of 256mb @ 3500 speeds for benchamrks and gaming..
then when i can aford it, get 1 stick of 512mb memory of whatever speed, possibly 3500 it wont matter to much i dont think and then running it like that..
am i going about this the right way or the wrong way? i want lastablity in this setup, i dont want to have to upgrade it within 6 months because its not doing something that i want it to be doing..

bigben2k · 04-10-2003, 01:24 PM

If you're headed for an NForce2 mobo, you're on the wrong path: the RAM sticks should be the same, and preferably the same size and speed, otherwise, you'll be running your RAM at the lowest setting of all three sticks.

If you're just going to replace the 2 * 256 PC3200 with a single 512 PC3500, with an NForce mobo, you'd loose some performance because the NForce2 is specifically designed to run with two sticks, but you'll gain some on the faster memory.

airspirit · 04-10-2003, 01:50 PM

The 512MB sticks will not clock as well. Ben is right. Consider this:

Use PC3500 memory in two 512MB sticks. I would recommend Corsair XMS, and get the stuff rated at the lowest timing rating you can find (low latency). When you pick up the fastest stuff available, it will probably clock as well as 256MB sticks of lower rated memory, and the NForce2 boards when run in DualDDR mode will give you another overclocking hit. Two sticks of low latency PC3500 will probably allow you to use decent timings when run at 200FSB or lower. Since you have diminishing returns over 200FSB (from benchmarks and other testing), I wouldn't recommend running it higher than that anyway.

2x512MB sticks will do you better than 2x256MB and 1x512MB anyday, though, when you consider the chipset you're using. This isn't really something that is debatable ... it is just the way it is.

airspirit · 04-10-2003, 01:53 PM

By the way, I am a firm believer in overkill when it comes to memory speeds. If you are investing that much money into memory, it is better to spend a little bit extra to get the faster stuff thereby ensuring you lower timings than to try to save a few bucks and get memory that doesn't perform the way you want it to. I try to pick up memory rated one step above where it will be ran, therefore:

If run at 166FSB, get PC3200 or higher
If run at 200FSB, get PC3500 or higher
If run at 233FSB, get the fastest stuff you can afford and pray

phill9700 · 04-10-2003, 02:44 PM

so what airspirit is saying, i should get the stuff that i already thought i should have in the beginning.. 2 sticks of corsair xms 3500 512mb dimms?

im a firm believer in doing something right or else its just a waste of time.. so is this now the right way of doing it and not the wrong way?

i thought the pc3500 stuff would be better ... damn i hate it when im right...

airspirit · 04-10-2003, 03:56 PM

That is the right way to do it.

phill9700 · 04-10-2003, 04:01 PM

well thats all i needed to hear.. so its the corsair xms memory for me then @ 512mbs @ pc3500.. heres a link that i had found for a review on corsair memory verus twinmos memory..

corsair verus twinmos

Cova · 04-10-2003, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
<clip>
If run at 166FSB, get PC3200 or higher
If run at 200FSB, get PC3500 or higher
If run at 233FSB, get the fastest stuff you can afford and pray

I would agree with this for most RAM, but if you are specifically getting low-latency RAM (eg. Corsair XMS or TwinX) then I don't think there is any advantage to going to a faster speed-grade than you will be running. You can run generic PC3500 at 200Mhz (PC3200 speed) at good timings, or you can run good PC3200 at the same speed and timings. I'm not sure which would be cheaper.

phill9700 · 04-10-2003, 04:11 PM

well im going over the top because i want to make sure that this will be the only memory buying thing i have to do for a while!! its expensive and yes some might say over the top, but its the best thing for any pc and theres reason in the madness because if i have to upgrade, at least i will know i will have good memory to get my next setup with..
i cant wait till all this comes together.. i just hope its worth all the pain and hassle!!!

airspirit · 04-10-2003, 05:04 PM

Not all memory clocks as well. Similarly, running in DualDDR configuration lowers the overclocking potential of the RAM, and not only can the RAM not run as fast as before, but the timings have to be slower as well. I'm not sure why, but I've seen it happen time and time again. If you go with a higher speed for a slight cost increase, you are almost guaranteeing yourself the results you want.

phill9700 · 04-11-2003, 01:29 AM

well with the fastest stuff that i can get i will be running it in dual ddr mode anyway.. if it dont go as fast as i would like, but its faster than what i have now, im not so bothered..
i know my cpu will overclock well, i can just feel it in my bones !!!

i just getting it so i know its not the memory that will be holding me back this time.. and it will keep a bit longer for upgrades down the road
lets see if this thing works out...

Brad · 04-13-2003, 02:49 PM

how much are you going to lose by running single channel? like 2% at absolute best?

I'd just buy one 512mb stick

phill9700 · 04-13-2003, 03:51 PM

its needed more for the amount rather than the speed, although it may only be 2%, its 2% more than i would have had.. plus i need it for video editing

airspirit · 04-14-2003, 09:45 AM

Average increase in speed is in the order of around 6-10% ... the same increase as running your memory 10-15 FSB faster. Since it is a "free" speed increase if you are using dual sticks, you might as well spring for it.

phill9700 · 04-15-2003, 10:47 AM

anything that is free and is good, i dont mind, but anything thats free and bad, i do mind!!
extra speed is always good!!

04-10-2003, 12:34 PM	#1
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	memory overclocking quick question for all you brainy people out there... will a 512mb dimm overclock the same as a 256mb dimm? even if its the same speed rating, cas rating, etc etc etc.. as performance for me is a much needed thing, im just wondering whether or not it would be worth slowing down (if at all i would be) my machine, just for more memory. i will be using it for a lot of gaming and video capture when i get the hardware sorted out (anyone have any views on whats good and whats not? i was looking at pinnacle stuff, the dc10+ and the one above it.. any comments will be most welcome) and as i have one of these new xp1700s that clock to hell and back, i want the best speed i can get from it.. i have been considering this memory lark for a lot of time and all i want is the best stuff i can aford and get because i dont want to have to fork out the more money twice when i could have got it the first time.. you guys know what i mean? also its going in a epox EP-8RDA+ motherboard and i have heard that there might be a few problems with starting it up the first time.. true? any and every comment most welcome.. thank you to all for the help.. __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

04-10-2003, 12:53 PM	#3
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	maybe not!! well its more down to trying not to spend more than i need to and ending up spending 3x more.. from what i can begin to remember i need lots of memory for video editing.. for gaming i need performance.. so what i was thinking was doing something like this.. getting 2 sticks of 256mb @ 3500 speeds for benchamrks and gaming.. then when i can aford it, get 1 stick of 512mb memory of whatever speed, possibly 3500 it wont matter to much i dont think and then running it like that.. am i going about this the right way or the wrong way? i want lastablity in this setup, i dont want to have to upgrade it within 6 months because its not doing something that i want it to be doing.. __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

04-10-2003, 01:50 PM	#5
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	The 512MB sticks will not clock as well. Ben is right. Consider this: Use PC3500 memory in two 512MB sticks. I would recommend Corsair XMS, and get the stuff rated at the lowest timing rating you can find (low latency). When you pick up the fastest stuff available, it will probably clock as well as 256MB sticks of lower rated memory, and the NForce2 boards when run in DualDDR mode will give you another overclocking hit. Two sticks of low latency PC3500 will probably allow you to use decent timings when run at 200FSB or lower. Since you have diminishing returns over 200FSB (from benchmarks and other testing), I wouldn't recommend running it higher than that anyway. 2x512MB sticks will do you better than 2x256MB and 1x512MB anyday, though, when you consider the chipset you're using. This isn't really something that is debatable ... it is just the way it is. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-10-2003, 01:53 PM	#6
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	By the way, I am a firm believer in overkill when it comes to memory speeds. If you are investing that much money into memory, it is better to spend a little bit extra to get the faster stuff thereby ensuring you lower timings than to try to save a few bucks and get memory that doesn't perform the way you want it to. I try to pick up memory rated one step above where it will be ran, therefore: If run at 166FSB, get PC3200 or higher If run at 200FSB, get PC3500 or higher If run at 233FSB, get the fastest stuff you can afford and pray __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-10-2003, 02:44 PM	#7
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	so what airspirit is saying, i should get the stuff that i already thought i should have in the beginning.. 2 sticks of corsair xms 3500 512mb dimms? im a firm believer in doing something right or else its just a waste of time.. so is this now the right way of doing it and not the wrong way? i thought the pc3500 stuff would be better ... damn i hate it when im right... __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

04-10-2003, 12:38 PM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	So... you still haven't made up your mind, huh? No, 512 will not overclock as nicely as a 256 stick. This is usually because your max OC depends on each RAM chip's ability, and 512 sticks usually have twice the number of chips (aka double-sided). As I remember, I last pointed you towards your video editing software's system requirements. Have you done that yet?

04-10-2003, 01:24 PM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	If you're headed for an NForce2 mobo, you're on the wrong path: the RAM sticks should be the same, and preferably the same size and speed, otherwise, you'll be running your RAM at the lowest setting of all three sticks. If you're just going to replace the 2 * 256 PC3200 with a single 512 PC3500, with an NForce mobo, you'd loose some performance because the NForce2 is specifically designed to run with two sticks, but you'll gain some on the faster memory.

04-10-2003, 03:56 PM	#8
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	That is the right way to do it. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-10-2003, 04:01 PM	#9
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	well thats all i needed to hear.. so its the corsair xms memory for me then @ 512mbs @ pc3500.. heres a link that i had found for a review on corsair memory verus twinmos memory.. corsair verus twinmos __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

04-10-2003, 04:11 PM	#11
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	well im going over the top because i want to make sure that this will be the only memory buying thing i have to do for a while!! its expensive and yes some might say over the top, but its the best thing for any pc and theres reason in the madness because if i have to upgrade, at least i will know i will have good memory to get my next setup with.. i cant wait till all this comes together.. i just hope its worth all the pain and hassle!!! __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

04-10-2003, 05:04 PM	#12
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Not all memory clocks as well. Similarly, running in DualDDR configuration lowers the overclocking potential of the RAM, and not only can the RAM not run as fast as before, but the timings have to be slower as well. I'm not sure why, but I've seen it happen time and time again. If you go with a higher speed for a slight cost increase, you are almost guaranteeing yourself the results you want. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-11-2003, 01:29 AM	#13
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	well with the fastest stuff that i can get i will be running it in dual ddr mode anyway.. if it dont go as fast as i would like, but its faster than what i have now, im not so bothered.. i know my cpu will overclock well, i can just feel it in my bones !!! i just getting it so i know its not the memory that will be holding me back this time.. and it will keep a bit longer for upgrades down the road lets see if this thing works out... __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

04-13-2003, 02:49 PM	#14
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	how much are you going to lose by running single channel? like 2% at absolute best? I'd just buy one 512mb stick __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-13-2003, 03:51 PM	#15
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	its needed more for the amount rather than the speed, although it may only be 2%, its 2% more than i would have had.. plus i need it for video editing __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

04-14-2003, 09:45 AM	#16
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Average increase in speed is in the order of around 6-10% ... the same increase as running your memory 10-15 FSB faster. Since it is a "free" speed increase if you are using dual sticks, you might as well spring for it. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-15-2003, 10:47 AM	#17
phill9700 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northam, South West Of England Posts: 155	anything that is free and is good, i dont mind, but anything thats free and bad, i do mind!! extra speed is always good!! __________________ NF7-S Rev 2 XP1700 @ 2.45ghz (11.5x213fsb) @ 1.8vcore (bios setting) Memory timings at cas 2 2-2-6 @ 2.7Vdimm (memory divider set to 3/3) IBM Deskstar 80gig ata100 hard drive Pioneer dvd-rom/dvd-rw Xaser 2 case modded with 120mm side fan Thermalright SLK-900U + 92mmm Tornado fan Vantec 205SL Fan controller (controlling the 120mm fan and Tornado) Enermax 460W PSU Geforce 3 Ti 200 64mb

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