A noob water block design. Input and ideas welcome! - Page 2

]JR[ · 11-18-2003, 03:00 AM

But it looks like it failed cos your holes seem miles too big?

]JR[

Pears0 · 11-18-2003, 05:23 AM

I have a good chance of getting it done super sccurate, i used to work in factories doin metal work etc, so i have access to some very cool very accurate equipment when i get home, and the idea was to use a #rotor section instead of dimples or cups, wot the water can flow out easily still. By the way, the stuff im on bout is lazer guided etc, so its worth bout £100,000 if u were thihkin of gettin it. Its not wot u know, its who u know, cos i know most the ppl that own it, so as long as i dont get in the way, i have free usage!

jaydee · 11-18-2003, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ]JR[
But it looks like it failed cos your holes seem miles too big?

]JR[

No.

jaydee · 11-18-2003, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pears0
I have a good chance of getting it done super sccurate, i used to work in factories doin metal work etc, so i have access to some very cool very accurate equipment when i get home, and the idea was to use a #rotor section instead of dimples or cups, wot the water can flow out easily still. By the way, the stuff im on bout is lazer guided etc, so its worth bout £100,000 if u were thihkin of gettin it. Its not wot u know, its who u know, cos i know most the ppl that own it, so as long as i dont get in the way, i have free usage!

I used a laser with mine and a CNC mill. Accuracy doesn't matter if you don't know how to do the right design. You spend more money trying top get it to work better than a low end commercial block than just buying a Cascade or any high end cooler. I got about $100 in my Jet designs and best I have done so far is 2C better than the Maze 4. Which sucks.

You might want to PM tex707. He does some nice CAD work and should be fluent in metric. I gave it about an hour last night and just couldn't get anything to come out right.

Pears0 · 11-18-2003, 11:41 AM

Ill give it till after the weekend to get in touch with him, i have a lot of uni work on that i need to do b4 the weekend cos im going home. So it wont b wort doin till then! I'll talk to my dad and c if i can get materials free or as neer to, he knows a lot of ppl n probly drag some pur copper up from somewhere in the cheep or for free. Dunno bout the polycard, or plexiglass, which ever is cheeper. Any advidce in that. I'm not particular after a superhigh performance system, jusst a cheep high performance system and realise that u ppl have both time and money to invest and know wot designs work best and in wot type of systems. This is y i am using the forums, so that i only need to make 1 water block with no need for testing in the sence for performance. Thanx any ways, keep the ideas comming, i do read other threads for ideas as well.

jaydee · 11-18-2003, 12:06 PM

If your just going to do a one off then stay away from the jets. here is an article of a block made by a forum member at www.overclockers.com. It is similar to a Rotor block and it's performance is up there with the best blocks on the market. best of all it was made with a drill press and dremel.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles690/

That is the kind I would suggest for a " do it once, and do it well" type of block because it is pretty much garanteed to work well on the first try as opposed to the Jet version that are not. The one in the article looks a little "getto" but it works damn good and the looks can be improved. This is a similar block to what I plan on milling in the next few months. Have a lot more CAD work to do but hope to have it done by the time pH starts testing DIY blocks.

Pears0 · 11-18-2003, 01:02 PM

could do, instead of using a copper top i could use polycard or plexi, depending on price, if both free polycarb. Dunno bout th holes in the top, but i have no idea how to solder or the equipment, so unless i can find some 1 to do that, thought with a UV die in the water, i think it would look cool with a clear top. any ideas bout over comming the need for holes in the top? I know y they are needed, but would puttin my layer 2 from the design b4 on with slightly bigger channels do the same job, any 1?

jaydee · 11-18-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pears0
could do, instead of using a copper top i could use polycard or plexi, depending on price, if both free polycarb. Dunno bout th holes in the top, but i have no idea how to solder or the equipment, so unless i can find some 1 to do that, thought with a UV die in the water, i think it would look cool with a clear top. any ideas bout over comming the need for holes in the top? I know y they are needed, but would puttin my layer 2 from the design b4 on with slightly bigger channels do the same job, any 1?

No need to for holes in the top. Just make the base about 1/2" thick. Also don't solder the top on. Use 4 bolts and use RTV silicone to seal it if you can't make an O-ring groove. Use Poly if possible, if not use 3/8" or 1/2" Plexi for the top. Check my lemon Block Cu thread out here: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=7424

it is of the same concept but milled instead of drilled. That block works very well. I got it at 4C over the maze 4 which would put it up there with the best commercial blocks. I got a revision of this in the works that should increas performance some. Also check out my King Pin block here: http://www.customcomp.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3
I am testing this block now. So far it is doing very well also.

Pears0 · 11-18-2003, 03:30 PM

Thax for the links/ideas. The King pin would b near perfect fro me if the results are doing pretty well, as i am an AMD fan, and will always use AMD. Specially as there could b a chance that intel might have to give up the ghost on theperformance market. Better than or close to rotor style blocks? but i would prefet to design a block i could make with limited tool, ie drill/dremel cos i am not entierly sure i know of any 1 who could machine it forme, or has a mill i could use when i wanted to. Do you have any ideas for makin the king pin with the drill dremel method at all after having the experiance of acctually makin it.

jaydee · 11-18-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pears0
Thax for the links/ideas. The King pin would b near perfect fro me if the results are doing pretty well, as i am an AMD fan, and will always use AMD. Specially as there could b a chance that intel might have to give up the ghost on theperformance market. Better than or close to rotor style blocks? but i would prefet to design a block i could make with limited tool, ie drill/dremel cos i am not entierly sure i know of any 1 who could machine it forme, or has a mill i could use when i wanted to. Do you have any ideas for makin the king pin with the drill dremel method at all after having the experiance of acctually makin it.

I desingedthe King Pin for Barton AMD CPU's. If you want to use the block for Athlon FX/Opterons then you will want to make some modifications. Non of which is hard to do. Just some extra work as it needs to be a little bigger to compensate for the IHS on the Opterons. Yes it can be done on a drill press like the block I linked above from overclockers. That is pretty much the same thing just a little bigger. I am already working on a drawing for this and will post a example tonight when I get home. I am going to use this type of block for my TEC/Pelt block design.

Pears0 · 11-18-2003, 06:44 PM

cool, thnax. I'll b looking 4ward to cing them. Where u posting them, in the king pin thread. Just so i know where to look. if u have it done b4 x-mass, well the designs ne ways, i may have a crack at making them over my hols, i do have a month to kill off some how, wot better than building my own computer water cooling system and case, then assembling a full new set of herdware to go into it to boot?

jaydee · 11-18-2003, 08:59 PM

Here is and example. This is similar to what I am going to be building. I will use a ball nosed endmill to drill the holes, then a regular square end endmill to finish the holes to make the flat bottomed, then use a endmill to make the cuts. I plan on doing it all on my CNC mill. This can be done with a drill press though. The cuts can be mase with a dremel.

funktional · 11-19-2003, 01:16 PM

Pears design looks quite good. I build a block that looks similar:

The middlepin tops are shaped and therefore they are hard to recognize on this picture.

klick here for more pictures and information (in german).

It performs great and beats my WW and Cascade Clone easily. Flow restrictivity is quite high but this is no problem because the performance does not depend on flowrates. I tested the block with one Aquarius 900i (900lph, 1.7m) and with four pumps in series that have nearly identical specs. The difference i measured was 0.5°C with my Barton 2530MHz@1.95V and 0.0°C difference with lower Voltages and clock rates.
I tried different jet sizes and again there was no difference. This Baseplate seems to work very well no matter how the water flows. I dont think you need multiple yets here a center inlet should be enough.

This block doesnt need to be build accurate. I made another one an that one performes at the same level
although it had been done very grubby.

]JR[ · 11-19-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
No.

God your informative arent you :shrug:

Perhaps it didnt work cos your shat

]JR[

jaydee · 11-19-2003, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ]JR[
God your informative arent you :shrug:

Perhaps it didnt work cos your shat

]JR[

Shat? Not sure what that is but whatever. I just don't feel like reposting 3 different threads of info again.

Cup size is maybe 10% of the problem. The problem is depth of of the cups, width of the base, width of the jets and how deep the jets go in the cups. With the equipment I was using I couldn't make the jets work right which was the biggest problem. And it will take another half dozen revisions to get the base thickness, cup depth, and straw into cup depth right. If it isn't just right it will not work well. Cathar did 20 or so revisions of the Cascade before his started to work well. There are at least 5 variables that need to be just right and figuring those out is a bitch. If your inlightened enough to figure those out on the first few tries then have at it!

Pears0 · 11-19-2003, 05:28 PM

shat = 54i7 in 1337. Its a wired english slang that most kids in the uk grow out of by bout 14, but this 1 aint yet, lol.

Hey thanx 4 the link funktional. Fortunatly I can read german, and speake a bit. I like the idea. Inivitive way of channeling the water out after its been in the heta transfer section with out letting it out too early but still only using 1 out let. I like it, might use it my self, it would save using a y connector, or having an extra return on the resivor.

]JR[ · 11-22-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
If your inlightened enough to figure those out on the first few tries then have at it!

Tuguchi

Im one of the best, been trained by the man himself.

]JR[

jaydee · 11-23-2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ]JR[
Tuguchi

Im one of the best, been trained by the man himself.

]JR[

Will be looking forward to your work then.

I was just joking on the enlightened bit BTW. Hard to convay sarcazm well on here.

Pears0 · 11-26-2003, 05:00 PM

! more q, how thick should the poly carb top be rough ly. I found ion the net, 4mm polycarb of bout 3m^2 for just over £24 Will this do, I can use the rest for winodows in my case, so its a doubl whammy! P.S. 4mm = 3/36" aprox.

jaydee · 11-26-2003, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pears0
! more q, how thick should the poly carb top be rough ly. I found ion the net, 4mm polycarb of bout 3m^2 for just over £24 Will this do, I can use the rest for winodows in my case, so its a doubl whammy! P.S. 4mm = 3/36" aprox.

4 millimeter = 0.1574803 inch which is just over 1/8". Not nearly thick enough. Very minimum I would use is 9mm or 3/8" here in the states.

Pears0 · 11-26-2003, 05:40 PM

Ok, I thought u ment 3/8" for plexiglass and so polycarb would b thinner, so did u mean 3/8" for either poly carb and plexiglass?

jaydee · 11-26-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pears0
Ok, I thought u ment 3/8" for plexiglass and so polycarb would b thinner, so did u mean 3/8" for either poly carb and plexiglass?

Yes. You need thickness in order to properly thread the hole so the barb will not pull out.

#Rotor · 11-26-2003, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
Here is and example. This is similar to what I am going to be building. I will use a ball nosed endmill to drill the holes, then a regular square end endmill to finish the holes to make the flat bottomed, then use a endmill to make the cuts. I plan on doing it all on my CNC mill. This can be done with a drill press though. The cuts can be mase with a dremel.

aaaa Crap.... someone Ratted me out

jaydee · 11-27-2003, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by #Rotor
aaaa Crap.... someone Ratted me out

Sorry man.

#Rotor · 11-27-2003, 11:07 AM

JD, how is this for an idea. pre drill the holes such that when you go with the final sqr-end bit, that it's diameter is such that each hole just barely cuts into one another.

the only reason this is not possible with a drill-press and normal drill-bits, is the fact that the bits are so bendy and braky..

this will give the formed pins the perfect shape. the Sqr-end bit will also not be so prone to wander, as it will be cutting on the perpendicular plane to the downward force applied.

11-18-2003, 05:23 AM	#27
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	I have a good chance of getting it done super sccurate, i used to work in factories doin metal work etc, so i have access to some very cool very accurate equipment when i get home, and the idea was to use a #rotor section instead of dimples or cups, wot the water can flow out easily still. By the way, the stuff im on bout is lazer guided etc, so its worth bout £100,000 if u were thihkin of gettin it. Its not wot u know, its who u know, cos i know most the ppl that own it, so as long as i dont get in the way, i have free usage! __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-18-2003, 11:41 AM	#30
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	Ill give it till after the weekend to get in touch with him, i have a lot of uni work on that i need to do b4 the weekend cos im going home. So it wont b wort doin till then! I'll talk to my dad and c if i can get materials free or as neer to, he knows a lot of ppl n probly drag some pur copper up from somewhere in the cheep or for free. Dunno bout the polycard, or plexiglass, which ever is cheeper. Any advidce in that. I'm not particular after a superhigh performance system, jusst a cheep high performance system and realise that u ppl have both time and money to invest and know wot designs work best and in wot type of systems. This is y i am using the forums, so that i only need to make 1 water block with no need for testing in the sence for performance. Thanx any ways, keep the ideas comming, i do read other threads for ideas as well. __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-18-2003, 01:02 PM	#32
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	could do, instead of using a copper top i could use polycard or plexi, depending on price, if both free polycarb. Dunno bout th holes in the top, but i have no idea how to solder or the equipment, so unless i can find some 1 to do that, thought with a UV die in the water, i think it would look cool with a clear top. any ideas bout over comming the need for holes in the top? I know y they are needed, but would puttin my layer 2 from the design b4 on with slightly bigger channels do the same job, any 1? __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-18-2003, 03:30 PM	#34
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	Thax for the links/ideas. The King pin would b near perfect fro me if the results are doing pretty well, as i am an AMD fan, and will always use AMD. Specially as there could b a chance that intel might have to give up the ghost on theperformance market. Better than or close to rotor style blocks? but i would prefet to design a block i could make with limited tool, ie drill/dremel cos i am not entierly sure i know of any 1 who could machine it forme, or has a mill i could use when i wanted to. Do you have any ideas for makin the king pin with the drill dremel method at all after having the experiance of acctually makin it. __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-18-2003, 06:44 PM	#36
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	cool, thnax. I'll b looking 4ward to cing them. Where u posting them, in the king pin thread. Just so i know where to look. if u have it done b4 x-mass, well the designs ne ways, i may have a crack at making them over my hols, i do have a month to kill off some how, wot better than building my own computer water cooling system and case, then assembling a full new set of herdware to go into it to boot? __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-18-2003, 03:00 AM	#26
]JR[ Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 74	But it looks like it failed cos your holes seem miles too big? ]JR[

11-18-2003, 12:06 PM	#31
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	If your just going to do a one off then stay away from the jets. here is an article of a block made by a forum member at www.overclockers.com. It is similar to a Rotor block and it's performance is up there with the best blocks on the market. best of all it was made with a drill press and dremel. http://www.overclockers.com/articles690/ That is the kind I would suggest for a " do it once, and do it well" type of block because it is pretty much garanteed to work well on the first try as opposed to the Jet version that are not. The one in the article looks a little "getto" but it works damn good and the looks can be improved. This is a similar block to what I plan on milling in the next few months. Have a lot more CAD work to do but hope to have it done by the time pH starts testing DIY blocks.

11-18-2003, 08:59 PM	#37
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Here is and example. This is similar to what I am going to be building. I will use a ball nosed endmill to drill the holes, then a regular square end endmill to finish the holes to make the flat bottomed, then use a endmill to make the cuts. I plan on doing it all on my CNC mill. This can be done with a drill press though. The cuts can be mase with a dremel.

11-19-2003, 01:16 PM	#38
funktional Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 17	Pears design looks quite good. I build a block that looks similar: The middlepin tops are shaped and therefore they are hard to recognize on this picture. klick here for more pictures and information (in german). It performs great and beats my WW and Cascade Clone easily. Flow restrictivity is quite high but this is no problem because the performance does not depend on flowrates. I tested the block with one Aquarius 900i (900lph, 1.7m) and with four pumps in series that have nearly identical specs. The difference i measured was 0.5°C with my Barton 2530MHz@1.95V and 0.0°C difference with lower Voltages and clock rates. I tried different jet sizes and again there was no difference. This Baseplate seems to work very well no matter how the water flows. I dont think you need multiple yets here a center inlet should be enough. This block doesnt need to be build accurate. I made another one an that one performes at the same level although it had been done very grubby. Last edited by funktional; 11-19-2003 at 01:25 PM.

11-19-2003, 05:28 PM	#41
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	shat = 54i7 in 1337. Its a wired english slang that most kids in the uk grow out of by bout 14, but this 1 aint yet, lol. Hey thanx 4 the link funktional. Fortunatly I can read german, and speake a bit. I like the idea. Inivitive way of channeling the water out after its been in the heta transfer section with out letting it out too early but still only using 1 out let. I like it, might use it my self, it would save using a y connector, or having an extra return on the resivor. __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-26-2003, 05:00 PM	#44
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	! more q, how thick should the poly carb top be rough ly. I found ion the net, 4mm polycarb of bout 3m^2 for just over £24 Will this do, I can use the rest for winodows in my case, so its a doubl whammy! P.S. 4mm = 3/36" aprox. __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-26-2003, 05:40 PM	#46
Pears0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Birmingham, england Posts: 61	Ok, I thought u ment 3/8" for plexiglass and so polycarb would b thinner, so did u mean 3/8" for either poly carb and plexiglass? __________________ England rule @ rugby. Lookin to build custom water coolin rig in next few months with compleat new hardware!

11-27-2003, 11:07 AM	#50
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	JD, how is this for an idea. pre drill the holes such that when you go with the final sqr-end bit, that it's diameter is such that each hole just barely cuts into one another. the only reason this is not possible with a drill-press and normal drill-bits, is the fact that the bits are so bendy and braky.. this will give the formed pins the perfect shape. the Sqr-end bit will also not be so prone to wander, as it will be cutting on the perpendicular plane to the downward force applied. __________________ There is no Spoon....

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