microfin wb made from akasa ak360/370 - Page 10

MadDogMe · 06-06-2003, 09:20 AM

I find it's punching the holes in copper (to start the drill off) that slip when the hammer is 'applied', the wobbly DP just antagonises it

...

Does polycarb start easy or does it benifit from a dimple/pilot~hole?...

leejsmith · 06-06-2003, 10:44 AM

just had a walk around the scap yard close to my place where i get my heater cores from and they told me there is a copermine .

just down the road but they wont sell me anything

anyway one of the scrap yards told me of a non ferrous metal dealer on the other side of town. I will be going to see him in the morning. If i cant find aything then i will use the other thermaltake base.

i got the 2mm brass tubes from B&Q depot without the tubes the 2mm holes in the polycarb dont make very good jets but with them awsome.

the polycarb is very easy to drill with small drill bits and i just made some tests on some copper i cut of the thermaltake base and i am confident as long as it's punch correctly that i can make a good job if it.
Plus i just spent £5 on a 3.5mm drill bit so it's nice and sharp.

my plan is to screw the poly top to the copper and then drill the 2mm holes into the poly just making a mark into the copper.
then punch the mark and drill the base.

the only weak point is how to glue the tubes super glue works very well but how will it hold up to the water is the question.

the tubes fit into the 2mm holes in the poly carb very well and actually stay in place with no glue.

my design will have 3.5mm holes in the base plate 1mm apart with the 2mm tubes. I know it wont work as well as cathars design but then this is a diy attemp.

i think that answerd all your questions and thanks for all the tips.

MadDogMe · 06-06-2003, 11:35 AM

I'd make a paper template (like Rotor does for his blocks) to mark out/make the punchholes for starting the drill off. You should'nt have any trouble with a 3.5mm drill, I've used one for loads of 5mm deep holes (well 4mm!)...

How about using silicon sealant for the tubes?. I know you want something alot less viscous realy but at least you know it's 100% waterproof

. You could make the initial holes 0.5mm bigger to make room for the adhesive. I like BB's idea of a jig using tack/pins tapped/pressed into a soft piece of wood (block of balsa?) to hold the outlet ends precisely in place...

____________________________

O/T'ish: I'm getting a wierd result in testing two different rads with your block you sent me. Ones a heatercore with 18cm x 19cm finned area the other is a 2 x 120mm fan PC rad. When I tested them both with the maze3 they both performed identicaly. Now using your block the heatercore is beating the 2 x 120mm rad by 2~2.5DegC!, plus I'm only using 1 x 120mm fan on the HC and two on the PC rad...

Why would block A produce a 2DegC difference in two rads when Block B produces very close/the~same temps??...

I'm damn sure the room temp has'nt dropped in the 1hr 20mins it's taken me to change the rads and get the temps up with Prime95. I only have an aquarium flat plastic thermo' to read room temps but it has'nt changed. The only thing I can think of is the HC lets your block 'breath' better, is less restrictive :shrug: ...

PS, I'm getting a bit worried about the blocks inlet getting soft, you used Araldite did'nt you?. I'm wondering if silicone sealant would hold it in instead?. The outlets would be OK with it because they're a tighter fit and don't rely on the adhesive to hold them 'steady', but do you think the inlet would get 'levered out'?...

leejsmith · 06-06-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
I'd make a paper template (like Rotor does for his blocks) to mark out/make the punchholes for starting the drill off. You should'nt have any trouble with a 3.5mm drill, I've used one for loads of 5mm deep holes (well 4mm!)...

i have just finished making a template and with 3.5mm holes and .5mm space. The only problem is the 0.5mm leaves me no room for mistake what so ever. if i make the gap any bigger the number of tubes / dimples is reduced.

Quote:

How about using silicon sealant for the tubes?. I know you want something alot less viscous realy but at least you know it's 100% waterproof . You could make the initial holes 0.5mm bigger to make room for the adhesive. I like BB's idea of a jig using tack/pins tapped/pressed into a soft piece of wood (block of balsa?) to hold the outlet ends precisely in place...

what if i make a chamber on the tube plate that will face the base then seal around the tubes with silicon so the water cant get to the super glue but still leaving enough room for the water to flow.

____________________________

Quote:

O/T'ish: I'm getting a wierd result in testing two different rads with your block you sent me. Ones a heatercore with 18cm x 19cm finned area the other is a 2 x 120mm fan PC rad. When I tested them both with the maze3 they both performed identicaly. Now using your block the heatercore is beating the 2 x 120mm rad by 2~2.5DegC!, plus I'm only using 1 x 120mm fan on the HC and two on the PC rad...

Why would block A produce a 2DegC difference in two rads when Block B produces very close/the~same temps??...

I'm damn sure the room temp has'nt dropped in the 1hr 20mins it's taken me to change the rads and get the temps up with Prime95. I only have an aquarium flat plastic thermo' to read room temps but it has'nt changed. The only thing I can think of is the HC lets your block 'breath' better, is less restrictive :shrug: ...

i only have heater core type not any rads. the heater cores have the least flow restriction so you might be right. Have you flushed the rad maybee it has a blockage causing more restriction than before.
I normaly find that room temps rise when i am testing too not drop by 2C

Quote:

[/b]PS, I'm getting a bit worried about the blocks inlet getting soft, you used Araldite did'nt you?. I'm wondering if silicone sealant would hold it in instead?. The outlets would be OK with it because they're a tighter fit and don't rely on the adhesive to hold them 'steady', but do you think the inlet would get 'levered out'?... [/b]

On that block i used some other clear epoxy not the araldite instant clear i use now but it's still epoxy so i guess where the water is making contact it will be getting soft. Wont the epoxy on the top be enough to hold it in place ?

as the squashed tube inlet peforms worse than a WW style jet plate i might go back to threaded barbs cutting out the epoxy problem.
It would be intersting to see how the epoxy is doing should i send you your maze3 back before it's too late ?

the silicon might not hold the inlet inplace depending on tube placement and how much pressure is on them when in the rig.

If i find any good copper in the morning i will get enough for you as well if you want some.

MadDogMe · 06-07-2003, 03:14 AM

Quote:

what if i make a chamber on the tube plate that will face the base then seal around the tubes with silicon so the water cant get to the super glue but still leaving enough room for the water to flow.

Sounds good, you could even press fit the tubes and do away with the super glue...

I don't need the M3. I just got worried when you mentioned the Epoxy going soft earlier on in the thread

. I've heard of epoxy being used before for years, then other people say it's not waterproof, part of me is a worrier (it's sat on my NF7s which took a month and a half to pay off

) but I have faith in it...

Man am I ever interested in some copper!, having a non ferous metal dealer is a 100%score

...

leejsmith · 06-07-2003, 05:31 AM

woo hoo (in a homer style)

i hit the jackpot today .

i have 3 of these and there is plenty more too.

i think 10mm is a little thick for a cup base or i am wrong ?

how much do you want maddogme

leejsmith · 06-07-2003, 02:34 PM

the top of the base is a little rough as i cut the copper i have in half. I gave it a blast on the belt sander but it will do.

i need to lap the base and stick it all together yet but i have been at it since 12 today so thats 8 hours so far 2 hours was cutting the 10mm copper i have in half to make a nice 5mm peice for this.

i also tried to make the cups flat with a dremel cutting bit but as you can see from one of the cups it broke in the process. I think the cups are less than 1mm above the core but not 100% sure.

the tubes are just low enough to fit in the cups but only a bit.

i started with a template on the polycarb and used a needle to make the first mark and then used a punch. Screw the polycarb to the base and drill through the polycarb making a mark in the base. this mark will help to make the cups later.

will post temps as soon as i can.

leejsmith · 06-07-2003, 06:17 PM

:shrug: :shrug:

on my first test the 1.5mm finbase with WW top is better ?

i made sure the tube are in the cups and the jets are good. The cups are less than 1mm above the cpu core and i had a good mount.

I ran the sames tests as normal and the fin block is better

any thoughts ?

Cathar · 06-07-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leejsmith
any thoughts ?

The impingement cup design is hard to get right. As I stated elsewhere, it's hard to totally screw it up, but getting even what seems like minor things wrong can result in 3, 4, or even 5C worse temperatures than what's really achievable with it. Everything has to be in balance, or performance rapidly falls away from the design's high-point.

The fin design is more tolerant.

As a starting hint, look at the amount of copper between the cups. How wide is it? How does that compare to your finned attempt?

leejsmith · 06-07-2003, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
The impingement cup design is hard to get right. As I stated elsewhere, it's hard to totally screw it up, but getting even what seems like minor things wrong can result in 3, 4, or even 5C worse temperatures than what's really achievable with it. Everything has to be in balance, or performance rapidly falls away from the design's high-point.

The fin design is more tolerant.

As a starting hint, look at the amount of copper between the cups. How wide is it? How does that compare to your finned attempt?

as you can see some of the cups have more copper between them than others. I had planned to use a 3.5mm drill for each cup but as they are not placed to well i went with 3mm. i could use the 3.5mm in some places to try an make the cups walls thinner.
with the 3.5mm drill it would of left 0.5mm between each cup.

also i was going to make the screw holes in the polycarb top a bit bigger so i can position the tubes better in the cups.

It restrics the flow about 50% more than the fin style block.

i only did a quick lap so i need to make sure it's flat too.

i am pleased with the actual block it self not bad for a first go. I usualy make a few mistakes and learn from them.

the hardest part is punching the template and making sure my drill press is alligned over the punch mark. once that is good the rest is easy.
next time i will get the jet holes wright.

Blackeagle · 06-07-2003, 11:49 PM

Lee,

You sure do stay busy man! How about fixing the top plexi with the copper tight enough to insure no shifting. Now drill the hole pattern down through the plexi and into the copper enough to start the drill without having to punch mark the base. Could perhaps give you enough more control to allow closer spacings of the holes.

BTW

For a first run at making a cup style block I thought you did pretty good.

MadDogMe · 06-08-2003, 03:42 AM

That's a damn good idea Blackeagle!, getting the jets alligned to the cups is a big part of it...

I think(from what I've read by Cathar) that impingment cooling is VERY localised, the area of metal around it that benifits is very small. So any 'large'(as if you could call them large!) areas of metal are just going to pass heat off conductivly, which will allow in a 'heat' build up, which results in a 'poorer' DT between CPU and block. Which leaves you with an average CPU temp. Basicly you want every square micron possible covered by the jet streams. 0.5 mm is what I'd aim for. Drilling that thin without the walls bowing is another matter!!, you may have to drill it in stages. I'd use a 2.5mm bit as well (sand down the tubes). As long as the area around the tubes (while in the cups) is not smaller than the tubes I/D~area it should'nt restrict it any...

Also if the jets are'nt centred it's going to magnify the problem...

Don't know if any is RIGHT but there's my thoughts!

...

How deep are the holes?, how thick (from drill~hole bottom) is the BP?. The BP wants to be under 1mm I expect. I'd like to try using 3mm thick copper for 2.5mm deep cups with the jets protruding just 0.5mm into them so the flow is'nt disturbed...

I think you'll need an X-Y table for the holes to get anywhere suitable for WW+ performance. They can be had for under £50 I think (for a half decent one) but I've never searched myself...

I would surely love some copper!. Was that from a scrappy?. Did they have any thinner stuff?. 3mm, 4mm, 5,, are all good sizes. Some 5mm stuff would be ideal but I'm not complaining

. the 10MM is ideal for GPU & NB blockage and I might be able to get some cut at an engeneering place, then again there's always the hacksaw

. I'm just chuffed you found some!, let the creativity flow!!

...

PS. From my small experience, working copper is a bitch. Getting drill placement without a 500watt bulb and a magnifying glass is a bitch too. You've done good for a first try (I had to gut my Rotor style block cause it was so fugged up

), I know the tendency to rush the first time!...

leejsmith · 06-08-2003, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackeagle
Lee,

You sure do stay busy man! How about fixing the top plexi with the copper tight enough to insure no shifting. Now drill the hole pattern down through the plexi and into the copper enough to start the drill without having to punch mark the base. Could perhaps give you enough more control to allow closer spacings of the holes.

BTW

For a first run at making a cup style block I thought you did pretty good.

thanks BE,

that is what i did to make the marks into the base as i drilled the plexi.

The plexi holes are 2mm. then i used 2.5mm on the base first and 3 after. if the holes were spaced correctly i would use the 3.5mm next.

like maddogme says i need a x-y table.

the lexan has not arived and i have had nothing left for me to say a parcel could not be deliverd.

I have the pin base your wanted i just keep forgetting to send it.
will make sure it goes next week.

leejsmith · 06-08-2003, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
That's a damn good idea Blackeagle!, getting the jets alligned to the cups is a big part of it...

I think(from what I've read by Cathar) that impingment cooling is VERY localised, the area of metal around it that benifits is very small. So any 'large'(as if you could call them large!) areas of metal are just going to pass heat off conductivly, which will allow in a 'heat' build up, which results in a 'poorer' DT between CPU and block. Which leaves you with an average CPU temp. Basicly you want every square micron possible covered by the jet streams. 0.5 mm is what I'd aim for. Drilling that thin without the walls bowing is another matter!!, you may have to drill it in stages. I'd use a 2.5mm bit as well (sand down the tubes). As long as the area around the tubes (while in the cups) is not smaller than the tubes I/D~area it should'nt restrict it any...

Also if the jets are'nt centred it's going to magnify the problem...

Don't know if any is RIGHT but there's my thoughts! ...

How deep are the holes?, how thick (from drill~hole bottom) is the BP?. The BP wants to be under 1mm I expect. I'd like to try using 3mm thick copper for 2.5mm deep cups with the jets protruding just 0.5mm into them so the flow is'nt disturbed...

I think you'll need an X-Y table for the holes to get anywhere suitable for WW+ performance. They can be had for under £50 I think (for a half decent one) but I've never searched myself...

I would surely love some copper!. Was that from a scrappy?. Did they have any thinner stuff?. 3mm, 4mm, 5,, are all good sizes. Some 5mm stuff would be ideal but I'm not complaining . the 10MM is ideal for GPU & NB blockage and I might be able to get some cut at an engeneering place, then again there's always the hacksaw . I'm just chuffed you found some!, let the creativity flow!! ...

PS. From my small experience, working copper is a bitch. Getting drill placement without a 500watt bulb and a magnifying glass is a bitch too. You've done good for a first try (I had to gut my Rotor style block cause it was so fugged up ), I know the tendency to rush the first time!...

the base plate is 4mm and the holes are 3.5mm +- 0.1mm or too.

i think you got it with the cup walls and the tube placement. I do have some spots on the base with 'LARGE' bits of copper between the cups and also the tubes are not in the middle of each cup. I intend to make the holes the screws fit into larger so i can adjust the plexi and i will drill what cups i can will the 3.5mm drill.

i got the copper from the metal dealer. they had loads of the 10mm buzz bar. The only other stuff he had was about 3mm but that was the top of a boiler or some thing. it was a large semi circle top and i had nothing to cut it with. Plus it would need a lot of work to make it flat.

is was hard work cutting the buzz bar in half.

i will send you half a bar.

i tried to found a x-y table but no luck so far. there is a place in town that might do them i will take a trip this week.

i keep looking on ebay too.

I wont be able to work on this until tuesday as the girl firend doesnt work again until then so she will want to do stuff like shopping and all that attention they want.
I hate it when i am half way through a project and i have to stop .

Blackeagle · 06-08-2003, 10:43 PM

Lee,

A X-Y set up would of course be the best. But......

How about setting up a fence/guide on the drill press table. It would only stablize one axes of motion but it would help some. Then by carfull messurement, as you move from one drilling point to the next, you should be able to get a straight line of evenly spaced holes. Perhaps use a carpenters square clamped in place for the fence as it will have a nice smooth straight edge.

Trick would be accurate movement of that fence when each line of holes is completed. Going to need some real care in messurements, but should work. Movement of the fence could perhaps be messured from the edge of the drill press table?

Drilling dozens of accuratly spaced holes, very closely spaced, will require a great deal of time and care.

leejsmith · 06-09-2003, 06:09 AM

i found a supplier for an x-y table or cross vice as they are called.
funny after searching for x -y tables for hours and founding nothing i now know why.

i have orded a 100m cross vice with 100x 100 movement for £31+vat. the shop is looking for flat end drill/milling bits fpr me too. (just got back and no joy)

i made some changes and drilled out some fo the holes to 3.5 but did loose a couple of walls in the process. I checked my cutting depth on some plexi and found i am below 1mm to the cpu core but thats the point of the drill bit so i need the flat end bits.

not going to try the dremel cutting bits again after the last one broke. It might help if the drill i use in the drill press had adjustable rpm.

I have seen a 5 speed pillar drill on ebay for £28+vat and there was a table top milling machine for £300 that would be very nice investment if i could see getting a return from it.

I had the idea of making water cooled cases and trying to sell them in a local shop i used to work in but not sure if there would be the interest in them. Still it might be worth a go. I can get the copper at a good price and the heater cores too. the shop could supplie the cases i just do the modding work.
get a good drill press along with the cross vice and make some simple maze style blocks.

Blackeagle · 06-09-2003, 09:29 AM

Congrats on finding a X-Y vice Lee.

Will be both much more accurate & easier to work with than a fence/guide DIY item could ever be.

leejsmith · 06-09-2003, 09:52 AM

hope so.
I just spent most of the morning doing cad work to make sure all the mount holes , sizes and dimples are correct.
i have 3mm holes with .5mm between each one.

MadDogMe · 06-09-2003, 10:11 AM

Argos sell pillar drills for about the same price (plus you can take it back in 14 days!

)...

Good find with the X~Y table, 100M is a bit big though eh!

...

Quote:

funny after searching for x -y tables for hours and founding nothing i now know why.

Whoops!!

...

leejsmith · 06-09-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
Argos sell pillar drills for about the same price (plus you can take it back in 14 days! )...

Good find with the X~Y table, 100M is a bit big though eh! ...

Whoops!! ...

the argos piller drill looks good.

know where i can get milling bits or drill bits with flat ends ?

would a copper peice 80mm x 160mm x 10mm be ok ?

not sure if i can get a 100m vice into my kitchen

what do you think about selling the cases with the water kits in them at a local shop ?

MadDogMe · 06-09-2003, 10:55 AM

Quote:

the argos piller drill looks good.

I wouldof' gotten one but I've got a 'circa 1970' B&D strap on jobbie!!

(with adjustable RPM drill

)...

Quote:

know where i can get milling bits or drill bits with flat ends ?

Not offhand but there'll be loads be online for sure. Biggest toolseller you can find would be the best bet...

Quote:

would a copper peice 80mm x 160mm x 10mm be ok ?

YOU BET!!...

Quote:

what do you think about selling the cases with the water kits in them at a local shop ?

So much depends on local demand, how much trade the shop gets. Selling through a shop might be too much legal wrangle as well :shrug: . Maybe let them show an example and take orders (give them a cut for doing it[SMALL ONE!! ]). I would'nt think about the mill for it though unless it took off, a Swiftech open block design would do to start, you could make one out of 2 or 3 peices(dimple bottom/plexi top), or factor the price of a retail 'block of their choice' into the cost. Think about it before you make any choices though. Have you spoken to the shop owner yet?. They might not like the idea of selling a 'buy as seen' product with no after support (which it would HAVE to be, water & electric & joe~sixpack don't mix :shrug: )...

MadDogMe · 06-09-2003, 11:03 AM

Loads of endmills!, did a quick search and found a place that sells 2mm ones, smallest so far. You should'nt have any trouble

...

leejsmith · 06-09-2003, 02:09 PM

thanks dude

i will do me best to get the copper sent in the morning.

BE same goes for the pin cooler.

leejsmith · 06-09-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
I wouldof' gotten one but I've got a 'circa 1970' B&D strap on jobbie!! (with adjustable RPM drill )...

Not offhand but there'll be loads be online for sure. Biggest toolseller you can find would be the best bet...

YOU BET!!...

So much depends on local demand, how much trade the shop gets. Selling through a shop might be too much legal wrangle as well :shrug: . Maybe let them show an example and take orders (give them a cut for doing it[SMALL ONE!! ]). I would'nt think about the mill for it though unless it took off, a Swiftech open block design would do to start, you could make one out of 2 or 3 peices(dimple bottom/plexi top), or factor the price of a retail 'block of their choice' into the cost. Think about it before you make any choices though. Have you spoken to the shop owner yet?. They might not like the idea of selling a 'buy as seen' product with no after support (which it would HAVE to be, water & electric & joe~sixpack don't mix :shrug: )...

i worked for them for 2 years so i know him very well but i havnt spoke to hem about it yet.
I would realy need to build a rig for him to look at.

I was thinking of including a pump relay to switch on the pump like the one i have on my rig along with the pc , a temp sensor with auto switchoff would be nice to and i have a temp probe that has alarm functions that can send an output when reached.
Plus options like fanbus , lcd display , windows ect.

One of the resons i left his place was the way customers would expect you to fix everything they F**K up and it sent me gray at the early age of 24. I liked doing the contracts with big companies better than the joe~sixpacks so i know what i am getting into. But i have to do some thing. so far no luck finding a job and all the agencys are saying there is nothing around at the moment.

Blackeagle · 06-10-2003, 09:06 PM

Lee I like your idea of building custom built rigs. I of course have no idea what the market is like over there. MadDog is right about wait to see if the first couple sell before shopping for mills. (Unless this is just a prime excuse to buy the mill you want anyway!

)

And thanks much for the pin sink, looking forwards to playing a bit with it.

06-08-2003, 03:42 AM	#237
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	That's a damn good idea Blackeagle!, getting the jets alligned to the cups is a big part of it... I think(from what I've read by Cathar) that impingment cooling is VERY localised, the area of metal around it that benifits is very small. So any 'large'(as if you could call them large!) areas of metal are just going to pass heat off conductivly, which will allow in a 'heat' build up, which results in a 'poorer' DT between CPU and block. Which leaves you with an average CPU temp. Basicly you want every square micron possible covered by the jet streams. 0.5 mm is what I'd aim for. Drilling that thin without the walls bowing is another matter!!, you may have to drill it in stages. I'd use a 2.5mm bit as well (sand down the tubes). As long as the area around the tubes (while in the cups) is not smaller than the tubes I/D~area it should'nt restrict it any... Also if the jets are'nt centred it's going to magnify the problem... Don't know if any is RIGHT but there's my thoughts! ... How deep are the holes?, how thick (from drill~hole bottom) is the BP?. The BP wants to be under 1mm I expect. I'd like to try using 3mm thick copper for 2.5mm deep cups with the jets protruding just 0.5mm into them so the flow is'nt disturbed... I think you'll need an X-Y table for the holes to get anywhere suitable for WW+ performance. They can be had for under £50 I think (for a half decent one) but I've never searched myself... I would surely love some copper!. Was that from a scrappy?. Did they have any thinner stuff?. 3mm, 4mm, 5,, are all good sizes. Some 5mm stuff would be ideal but I'm not complaining . the 10MM is ideal for GPU & NB blockage and I might be able to get some cut at an engeneering place, then again there's always the hacksaw . I'm just chuffed you found some!, let the creativity flow!! ... PS. From my small experience, working copper is a bitch. Getting drill placement without a 500watt bulb and a magnifying glass is a bitch too. You've done good for a first try (I had to gut my Rotor style block cause it was so fugged up ), I know the tendency to rush the first time!... Last edited by MadDogMe; 06-08-2003 at 03:48 AM.

06-08-2003, 10:43 PM	#240
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Lee, A X-Y set up would of course be the best. But...... How about setting up a fence/guide on the drill press table. It would only stablize one axes of motion but it would help some. Then by carfull messurement, as you move from one drilling point to the next, you should be able to get a straight line of evenly spaced holes. Perhaps use a carpenters square clamped in place for the fence as it will have a nice smooth straight edge. Trick would be accurate movement of that fence when each line of holes is completed. Going to need some real care in messurements, but should work. Movement of the fence could perhaps be messured from the edge of the drill press table? Drilling dozens of accuratly spaced holes, very closely spaced, will require a great deal of time and care. Last edited by Blackeagle; 06-08-2003 at 10:51 PM.

06-06-2003, 09:20 AM	#226
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I find it's punching the holes in copper (to start the drill off) that slip when the hammer is 'applied', the wobbly DP just antagonises it ... Does polycarb start easy or does it benifit from a dimple/pilot~hole?...

06-06-2003, 10:44 AM	#227
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	just had a walk around the scap yard close to my place where i get my heater cores from and they told me there is a copermine . just down the road but they wont sell me anything anyway one of the scrap yards told me of a non ferrous metal dealer on the other side of town. I will be going to see him in the morning. If i cant find aything then i will use the other thermaltake base. i got the 2mm brass tubes from B&Q depot without the tubes the 2mm holes in the polycarb dont make very good jets but with them awsome. the polycarb is very easy to drill with small drill bits and i just made some tests on some copper i cut of the thermaltake base and i am confident as long as it's punch correctly that i can make a good job if it. Plus i just spent £5 on a 3.5mm drill bit so it's nice and sharp. my plan is to screw the poly top to the copper and then drill the 2mm holes into the poly just making a mark into the copper. then punch the mark and drill the base. the only weak point is how to glue the tubes super glue works very well but how will it hold up to the water is the question. the tubes fit into the 2mm holes in the poly carb very well and actually stay in place with no glue. my design will have 3.5mm holes in the base plate 1mm apart with the 2mm tubes. I know it wont work as well as cathars design but then this is a diy attemp. i think that answerd all your questions and thanks for all the tips.

06-06-2003, 11:35 AM	#228
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I'd make a paper template (like Rotor does for his blocks) to mark out/make the punchholes for starting the drill off. You should'nt have any trouble with a 3.5mm drill, I've used one for loads of 5mm deep holes (well 4mm!)... How about using silicon sealant for the tubes?. I know you want something alot less viscous realy but at least you know it's 100% waterproof . You could make the initial holes 0.5mm bigger to make room for the adhesive. I like BB's idea of a jig using tack/pins tapped/pressed into a soft piece of wood (block of balsa?) to hold the outlet ends precisely in place... ____________________________ O/T'ish: I'm getting a wierd result in testing two different rads with your block you sent me. Ones a heatercore with 18cm x 19cm finned area the other is a 2 x 120mm fan PC rad. When I tested them both with the maze3 they both performed identicaly. Now using your block the heatercore is beating the 2 x 120mm rad by 2~2.5DegC!, plus I'm only using 1 x 120mm fan on the HC and two on the PC rad... Why would block A produce a 2DegC difference in two rads when Block B produces very close/the~same temps??... I'm damn sure the room temp has'nt dropped in the 1hr 20mins it's taken me to change the rads and get the temps up with Prime95. I only have an aquarium flat plastic thermo' to read room temps but it has'nt changed. The only thing I can think of is the HC lets your block 'breath' better, is less restrictive :shrug: ... PS, I'm getting a bit worried about the blocks inlet getting soft, you used Araldite did'nt you?. I'm wondering if silicone sealant would hold it in instead?. The outlets would be OK with it because they're a tighter fit and don't rely on the adhesive to hold them 'steady', but do you think the inlet would get 'levered out'?...

06-07-2003, 05:31 AM	#231
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	woo hoo (in a homer style) i hit the jackpot today . i have 3 of these and there is plenty more too. i think 10mm is a little thick for a cup base or i am wrong ? how much do you want maddogme

06-07-2003, 02:34 PM	#232
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	the top of the base is a little rough as i cut the copper i have in half. I gave it a blast on the belt sander but it will do. i need to lap the base and stick it all together yet but i have been at it since 12 today so thats 8 hours so far 2 hours was cutting the 10mm copper i have in half to make a nice 5mm peice for this. i also tried to make the cups flat with a dremel cutting bit but as you can see from one of the cups it broke in the process. I think the cups are less than 1mm above the core but not 100% sure. the tubes are just low enough to fit in the cups but only a bit. i started with a template on the polycarb and used a needle to make the first mark and then used a punch. Screw the polycarb to the base and drill through the polycarb making a mark in the base. this mark will help to make the cups later. will post temps as soon as i can.

06-07-2003, 06:17 PM	#233
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	:shrug: :shrug: on my first test the 1.5mm finbase with WW top is better ? i made sure the tube are in the cups and the jets are good. The cups are less than 1mm above the cpu core and i had a good mount. I ran the sames tests as normal and the fin block is better any thoughts ?

06-07-2003, 11:49 PM	#236
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Lee, You sure do stay busy man! How about fixing the top plexi with the copper tight enough to insure no shifting. Now drill the hole pattern down through the plexi and into the copper enough to start the drill without having to punch mark the base. Could perhaps give you enough more control to allow closer spacings of the holes. BTW For a first run at making a cup style block I thought you did pretty good.

06-09-2003, 06:09 AM	#241
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	i found a supplier for an x-y table or cross vice as they are called. funny after searching for x -y tables for hours and founding nothing i now know why. i have orded a 100m cross vice with 100x 100 movement for £31+vat. the shop is looking for flat end drill/milling bits fpr me too. (just got back and no joy) i made some changes and drilled out some fo the holes to 3.5 but did loose a couple of walls in the process. I checked my cutting depth on some plexi and found i am below 1mm to the cpu core but thats the point of the drill bit so i need the flat end bits. not going to try the dremel cutting bits again after the last one broke. It might help if the drill i use in the drill press had adjustable rpm. I have seen a 5 speed pillar drill on ebay for £28+vat and there was a table top milling machine for £300 that would be very nice investment if i could see getting a return from it. I had the idea of making water cooled cases and trying to sell them in a local shop i used to work in but not sure if there would be the interest in them. Still it might be worth a go. I can get the copper at a good price and the heater cores too. the shop could supplie the cases i just do the modding work. get a good drill press along with the cross vice and make some simple maze style blocks.

06-09-2003, 09:29 AM	#242
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Congrats on finding a X-Y vice Lee. Will be both much more accurate & easier to work with than a fence/guide DIY item could ever be.

06-09-2003, 09:52 AM	#243
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	hope so. I just spent most of the morning doing cad work to make sure all the mount holes , sizes and dimples are correct. i have 3mm holes with .5mm between each one.

06-09-2003, 11:03 AM	#247
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Loads of endmills!, did a quick search and found a place that sells 2mm ones, smallest so far. You should'nt have any trouble ...

06-09-2003, 02:09 PM	#248
leejsmith Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: notts uk Posts: 408	thanks dude i will do me best to get the copper sent in the morning. BE same goes for the pin cooler.

06-10-2003, 09:06 PM	#250
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Lee I like your idea of building custom built rigs. I of course have no idea what the market is like over there. MadDog is right about wait to see if the first couple sell before shopping for mills. (Unless this is just a prime excuse to buy the mill you want anyway! ) And thanks much for the pin sink, looking forwards to playing a bit with it.

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