No competition, why only HWlabs?

[BillA]

slicey
a reasonable answer
and as I suspected it had to be, huge

not a criticism, just observing - different solutions have their own consequences
- a far better idea than the 'bong' ever was (and far harder to implement)

[Marci]

/me whips out the lassoo and hoists things back into shape...

Extrapolated the angles for 25 deg and 45 deg to see what space saving it would give with intention of posting the above and asking for airflow calcs etc to assess suitability...

Will get 30 deg / 40mm shroud made up! Ta d00d!

Just been notified shroud will be on my desk tomorrow! There is a downside however.
I'm taking some time off to go racing - first round of 2005 British Championship MiniMoto Sidecars is this weekend, so I'll be back Monday/Tues next week with pix etc (of the rad / shroud)... assuming I don't get hospitalised in the process...!

[eander315]

This is seriously off-topic, but that minimoto sidecar racing looks seriously dangerous and FUN! Good luck at the races

[bobkoure]

On-the-track racing is actually pretty safe, so long as there aren't novices out there with you (increases the probability of getting run over if you come off - novices tend to "fixate" on "the interesting thing", which, if you're sliding along in your leathers, is you).
Of course, you can get unlucky - hand stuck under sliding bike, high side, tumble during slide (I broke a collarbone this way - my own fault, though...).

[Blackeagle]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

I think there may be some easy/cheap things that could be done.
For instance, much of the annoying noise is higher frequencies. A simple 1" of sound absorbent foam can attenuate frequencies down to 7KHz or so (trick is to have air friction a half wavelength away from a reflecting surface). So... if you're set up in the "typical" pull style, put a baffle over the rad opening, spaced, say, so there's a 1" space between the foam and the rad - and put a 1" foam panel on the baffle. Higher frequencies are pretty "beamy" and won't go around the baffle - and you're attenuating whatever might reflect out.


Marci says that a good portion of the noise is generated by air passing through a radiator. At low air velocity, I'm not sure this is true - and if most of the noise is from the fan(s), then maybe just putting the fan at right angles to the radiator fins may provide a good deal of attenuation.
.

Thanks for a interesting idea.

I expect to have to do some tuning of any such case I make. Your baffle directly inline with the opening of the core is a differant approach to what I've had in mind. I see your point in attenuation of the noise's pitch. Proper spacing for a balance of free enough air flow while still able to cut down the pitch of the noise would be the trick. Thank's agian.

[Blackeagle]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

On-the-track racing is actually pretty safe, so long as there aren't novices out there with you (increases the probability of getting run over if you come off - novices tend to "fixate" on "the interesting thing", which, if you're sliding along in your leathers, is you).
Of course, you can get unlucky - hand stuck under sliding bike, high side, tumble during slide (I broke a collarbone this way - my own fault, though...).

Glad to hear it's safe......LOL!

[Voodoo Rufus]

In response to Cathar's comments about silent fans, the Deltas do not fit the "totally inaudible" ranking. I've got a pair of the 70cfm 120x38 tri-blades. They're rated for 4 volt operation, and I've got my 2 operating just above their stalling speed as my only case intakes and exhasts. Since the rpm sensors fail around 650rpm about, I'd guess these are going around 600. There is no noticable bearing noise but the fan motors do tick. If your room is closed and very quiet, then you may hear these from from 6 feet or closer. If you've got an open window ambient noise will easily drown them out.

They may not be silent, but when taken to their lower voltage limits, they are VERY quiet. To me they rank with Panaflo L1A 120s when undervolted.

[Marci]

Old Shroud vs New Shroud - quite a saving in the space department


Better shot showing fin spacing


Profile shot of single Rev2 shroud fitted to one side


Shroud without fan


So, that's the 40mm shroud done and dusted and all fitted to the mountainmods testrig.

[Marci]

This is seriously off-topic, but that minimoto sidecar racing looks seriously dangerous and FUN! Good luck at the races

Back, in one piece, no damages, 1x Trophy, 4 sessions, 2nd on the grid after qualifying with 1:09 vs 1:07 iirc, 1st place in all sessions, 25 points per 1st per session = Full 100 Championship Points (max achievable in a single round), and now leading our class (4-Stroke) after Round1.

[Ruiner]

How should this rad compare performance wise with the black ice pro 2?
Off hand, I would think the main difference is packaging (squarish vs. rectangle, depending on case design), with overall finned area being pretty close.
The BIP is dual pass, so that's one slight disadvantage for it.

For a given airflow, you could run paired fans on the BIP slower than the single on this one, unless your deeper shroud would make up for that as well.

Any thoughts?

[Marci]

The design goal is best performance with a SINGLE silent fan... as efficient as possible. A single fan'd rad running in silence that can match a dual fan'd rad in silence is obviously more efficient. Read the whole thread as am sure your questions are already answered. This is all about efficiency, performance and silence. Designed for the job from the start.

Cathar will be able to answer more appropriately. The specs of this job are his baby... I just realise them...

[Delirious]

Can't wait to see the results u get from testing it.

What radiators/heatcores exactly will u be testing it against?

[DaveX]

Keep up the good work Would definitely be awesome to have an almost silent computer and heavily overclocked components.

[Marci]

Don't kow til testing begins... altho realistically it wouldn't be a "vs" kind of test. It would be a standalone analysis in the same vein as BillA's review of the original HE series.

[pHaestus]

Who is now producing test results with absolute values like Bill did?

[BillA]

in theory JoeC could, but it will never happen due to the time needed to work through a reproducable test setup
-> nothing comes close to the effort required to achieve reproducability

needed is a wind tunnel and at $15K, farther yet from the grasp of the average guy
(but none here are average, lol - ok, who has a cal'ed wind tunnel ?)

[aaronspink]

Originally Posted by unregistered

in theory JoeC could, but it will never happen due to the time needed to work through a reproducable test setup
-> nothing comes close to the effort required to achieve reproducability

needed is a wind tunnel and at $15K, farther yet from the grasp of the average guy
(but none here are average, lol - ok, who has a cal'ed wind tunnel ?)

Hmm, most universities. There is a pretty cool super sonic one at Moffet Field. I wonder well a radiator cools in a supersonic enviroment.

[maxSaleen]

Marci: any chance we will ever see this product made available to consumers? If so when (if your allowed to answer that)? Great job so far.

[Marci]

Well, if consumers want to see testing on it first, you'll have to wait til we've found someone to test it etc. If you're willing to buy it on a blind leap of faith then it'll be out sooner. Personally I'd rather have some figures to back up the claims before I put it out for retail sale, but it's looking like that's not gonna happen due to a lack of anyone who knows about how to test radiators who's available to do it.

So what do folks think? Just release it and see how it fares in the market place, or get it reviewed and tested first THEN release it?

The WHEN of it all - hell, could have em on the shelf within 3 days if we had to. Only delays at the mo are purely trying to source someone to test it properly. Production are just waiting for me to say the word...

Admittedly, if we just release it then reviews will naturally follow in time as they spread thru the marketplace, but not one of those will be a useful review in the eyes of the guys here... and not one of those reviews would be quantifiable / reproduceable etc etc in the traditional procooling way... they'd just be "we had a PC with x waterkit and x rad. It ran at x under full load. We swapped out the rad for this one and didn't change anything else and CPU ran at y under load", which as we all know means bugger all to anyone who's bothered about their watercooling, and means everything to those who have a pocket full of cash and just want someone no-one else has got.

[BillA]

Marci
in a basement which will be a fairly good sink with 'constant' air temp, just run a controlled A to B test
not the end of the world, hell - if no one wants to test ?
but unless the heat source is BIG (say some TECs ?), you will be hard pressed to see much difference
- but since most buy rads expressly for the overcapacity, . . . .