No competition, why only HWlabs? - Page 14

Marci · 06-02-2005, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Just bought one of these - great construction quality, very nice rad.
I am currently looking at a new case too so will eagerly await any pics of other guys installs...

I have thought both about a new Lian Li with a 120mm front intake. OR a V-1100 and having the rad on the base as Marci described. I am slightly worried about dust buildup though in that setup.

Any comments on that?

Good thread on mounting here: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=378300

Cyprio · 06-02-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marci

Good thread on mounting here: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=378300

Thats my thread Marci! LOL. I should stick to the simple nick i guess.

Does that look OK? Do you have any suggestions to which of the two ways i mount it?
Ta.

Marci · 06-02-2005, 10:35 AM

On the base sucking up thru the floor venting out the front would be my preference.

Cyprio · 06-02-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marci

On the base sucking up thru the floor venting out the front would be my preference.

Yeah, that was my thought too. I will post pics when i get stuff ready. Currently writing up PhD thesis wso this probably wont be till after hand in - 24th June!

Ps Will over-clock be selling the mounting kit?

Cyprio · 06-02-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marci

On the base sucking up thru the floor venting out the front would be my preference.

Yeah, that was my thought too. I will post pics when i get stuff ready. Currently writing up PhD thesis wso this probably wont be till after hand in - 24th June!

Ps Will over-clock be selling the mounting kit? Not sure how else to secure it to the base of the case.

Marci · 06-02-2005, 10:56 AM

http://store.over-clock.com/ThermoChill.html#a326

Ruiner · 06-02-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marci

On the base sucking up thru the floor venting out the front would be my preference.

Unless you have a cat....trust me on this one.

Cyprio · 06-02-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruiner

Unless you have a cat....trust me on this one.

Hehe - no feline hairs around.

bobkoure · 06-02-2005, 05:28 PM

Hmmm...
Sounds like some sort of periodic reminder to remove the accumulated cat hairs, including a hair-ball-upchuck audio track might be just the ticket

Marci · 06-03-2005, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Unless you have a cat....trust me on this one

Tesla Coils...

Cyprio · 06-06-2005, 07:13 AM

Just recieved the V1100 today.

Its much dinkier than i expected, the P160 will be a tight fit!
Will post pics as i start work on the case...

Cyprio · 06-07-2005, 07:49 AM

EDITED: Made new thread as realised this is probably not the best place to start posting pics.

bobkoure · 06-07-2005, 10:24 AM

moved to same separate thread (good idea!)

Lothar5150 · 06-27-2005, 11:33 PM

Cathar,

You asked me to address this in Pro Forums so I am.

Let me restate the question for you. You created a radiator with a core surface area approximately 10% greater than a Chevette heater core. Your data shows that you get 15%-30% better performance that a Chevette heater core.

A) Is that not predictable given the relationship between surface are and heat dissipation?
B) I am asking honestly, what is the break thru? :shrug:

Long Haired Git · 06-28-2005, 05:52 AM

Performance is not linear to surface area.
Check out BillA's http://thermal-management-testing.com/ThermoChill.htm.

HE120.1: c/w = 0.039
HE120.2: c/w = 0.024

You'd expect twice the performance from twice the SA, but you'd not get a C/W of 0.195, you'd only get 0.024.

So, a 15% to 30% improvement from only a 10% increase in SA is none too shabby.

A 120.2/BA sized core with the FPI and tube count Cathar proposes would show a true comparison, but then you'd also need to take noise into consideration...

Marci · 06-28-2005, 06:46 AM

Quote:

A 120.2/BA sized core with the FPI and tube count Cathar proposes would show a true comparison, but then you'd also need to take noise into consideration...

In progress / en route...

Cathar · 06-28-2005, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Let me restate the question for you. You created a radiator with a core with a surface area approximately 10% greater than a Chevette heater core. Your data shows that you get 15%-30% better performance that a Chevette heater core.

Actually the PA160 has about half the total metal-air surface area of the Chevette heater-core.

Quote:

A) Is the not predictable given the relationship between surface are and heat dissipation?

At half the surface area? No.

Quote:

B) I am asking honestly, what is the break thru? :shrug:

Achieving better performance with far less surface area.

Read back through this thread. The answers and reasoning are there.

Lothar5150 · 06-28-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

Actually the PA160 has about half the total metal-air surface area of the Chevette heater-core.

At half the surface area? No.

Achieving better performance with far less surface area.

Read back through this thread. The answers and reasoning are there.

Your still 160mm x 160mm yes

Etacovda · 06-28-2005, 06:54 PM

suprisingly enough frontal area doesnt equal surface area...

Cathar · 06-28-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Your still 160mm x 160mm yes

Hmmm, Lothar, it would seem that you're not quite following the whole line of reasoning on this. It's all laid out in this thread if you want to take the time to read it.

Radiator performance is only partially linked to frontal surface area. The PA160.1 was designed for a singular purpose, but somewhat beyond expectations when using with a single fan will outperform radiators with 20% larger facial area than it, with ~3x the metal-air surface area, by 10-15%.

Now if you're scoffing at a 30-35% improvement in per-facial area performance as being of minor significance then I don't know what to say.

What this thread is about, or rather what it has become, is specifically how to maximise radiator performance across the range of axial fans that water-coolers use, regardless of the form factor, rather than blindly assuming that high-noise high-pressure radial blower driven heater-cores as exist in cars will translate well to the comparitively low-noise and weaker pressure axial fans.

The PA160.1 was just the first. The PA160.1 just fills a very particular niche within a certain form factor and fan-power definition, although fan-power wise it works out well across a very broad set of axial fan powers. Still lots to do for other form factors.

If you really want to understand it deeper, then read the thread, and while doing so, let go of your fixation on facial surface area equating to performance.

06-02-2005, 10:35 AM	#263
Marci Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 486	On the base sucking up thru the floor venting out the front would be my preference. __________________ www.minimotosidecars.org / www.thermochill.com / www.themusiccollective.co.uk

06-02-2005, 10:56 AM	#266
Marci Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 486	http://store.over-clock.com/ThermoChill.html#a326 __________________ www.minimotosidecars.org / www.thermochill.com / www.themusiccollective.co.uk

06-06-2005, 07:13 AM	#271
Cyprio Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 47	Just recieved the V1100 today. Its much dinkier than i expected, the P160 will be a tight fit! Will post pics as i start work on the case... __________________ ::BR:: - A Gaming Community www.brclan.co.uk

06-07-2005, 07:49 AM	#272
Cyprio Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 47	EDITED: Made new thread as realised this is probably not the best place to start posting pics. __________________ ::BR:: - A Gaming Community www.brclan.co.uk Last edited by Cyprio; 06-07-2005 at 10:12 AM.

06-07-2005, 10:24 AM	#273
bobkoure Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA - Boston area Posts: 798	moved to same separate thread (good idea!) Last edited by bobkoure; 06-07-2005 at 10:30 AM. Reason: move to separate thread

06-02-2005, 05:28 PM	#269
bobkoure Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA - Boston area Posts: 798	Hmmm... Sounds like some sort of periodic reminder to remove the accumulated cat hairs, including a hair-ball-upchuck audio track might be just the ticket

06-27-2005, 11:33 PM	#274
Lothar5150 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Surf City USA Posts: 433	Cathar, You asked me to address this in Pro Forums so I am. Let me restate the question for you. You created a radiator with a core surface area approximately 10% greater than a Chevette heater core. Your data shows that you get 15%-30% better performance that a Chevette heater core. A) Is that not predictable given the relationship between surface are and heat dissipation? B) I am asking honestly, what is the break thru? :shrug: Last edited by Lothar5150; 06-28-2005 at 11:16 AM.

06-28-2005, 05:52 AM	#275
Long Haired Git Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sydney, Oz Posts: 336	Performance is not linear to surface area. Check out BillA's http://thermal-management-testing.com/ThermoChill.htm. HE120.1: c/w = 0.039 HE120.2: c/w = 0.024 You'd expect twice the performance from twice the SA, but you'd not get a C/W of 0.195, you'd only get 0.024. So, a 15% to 30% improvement from only a 10% increase in SA is none too shabby. A 120.2/BA sized core with the FPI and tube count Cathar proposes would show a true comparison, but then you'd also need to take noise into consideration... __________________ Long Haired Git "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." (Prof. Gene Spafford) My Rig, in all its glory, can be seen best here AMD XP1600 @ 1530 Mhz \| Soyo Dragon + \| 256 Mb PC2700 DDRAM \| 2 x 40 Gb 7200rpm in Raid-0 \| Maze 2, eheim 1250, dual heater cores! \| Full specifications (PCDB)

06-28-2005, 06:54 PM	#279
Etacovda Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dunedin NZ Posts: 735	suprisingly enough frontal area doesnt equal surface area... __________________ Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights.

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