"Radius" by BigBen2k - Page 18

utabintarbo · 05-27-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
Yeah if someone less "ignorant" than I about G-code can take the list I posted above and make some code it would probably be better than the software converter it came with, it does seem to work alright, but it certainly isn't optimal. I would ask though that the code be seperate for each type of tool needed and just set it up for one pass on each section. I will manually set the depth each pass as I have no clue how deep I will be able to go on each pass untill I try it.

Is your machine only set up for 2D (2.5D) work? Or are you just wanting to set Z yourself out of safety/paranoia? If so, 1 z-level pass for each tool will be all you need, correct?

Bob

jaydee · 05-27-2003, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by utabintarbo
Is your machine only set up for 2D (2.5D) work? Or are you just wanting to set Z yourself out of safety/paranoia? If so, 1 z-level pass for each tool will be all you need, correct?

Bob

Want to set Z myself each pass so yes one z level pass. Makes it easy to shut themill off after a complete pass has been made and let it cool down for a while.

hara · 05-27-2003, 09:58 AM

Why don't you cool the motor with a house fan?

jaydee · 05-27-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hara
Why don't you cool the motor with a house fan?

Will not work. It is completely housed. A fan doesn't cool fast enough. It gets very hot! I was going to water cool it at one time. Still trying to figure that out though.

utabintarbo · 07-10-2003, 07:38 AM

Bump for an update. It's been over a month!

utabintarbo · 07-10-2003, 07:38 AM

Bump for an update. It's been over a month!

bigben2k · 07-10-2003, 08:08 AM

No progress, none whatsoever!

Maybe I should just send the copper to Jaydee: what do you think?

Since I came up with an idea that lead to the Cascade, I'm inclined to go that route, but I'm not giving up on Radius: it's going to be built, no matter what.

I've had a chance to try to size the shroud in my case, and there's no way that the monstrous res that I made is going to fit, so that's going to have to go back to the drawing board.

Maybe I can just mod it, to angle out the inlet, at 90 degrees... but I really need my Dremel to get anywhere from here!

jaydee · 07-10-2003, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
No progress, none whatsoever!

Maybe I should just send the copper to Jaydee: what do you think?

Since I came up with an idea that lead to the Cascade, I'm inclined to go that route, but I'm not giving up on Radius: it's going to be built, no matter what.

I've had a chance to try to size the shroud in my case, and there's no way that the monstrous res that I made is going to fit, so that's going to have to go back to the drawing board. Maybe I can just mod it, to angle out the inlet, at 90 degrees... but I really need my Dremel to get anywhere from here!

Before you send the copper let me play with a small endmill first on my mill. I am not to confident it will handle it because of the access slop in the table. I am going to order a couple small endmills today to play with the "Jet" block tops in a couple weekends. I have another Pin block I want to try with a small endmill in copper and I will see how it turns out....

bigben2k · 07-10-2003, 09:51 AM

Ok, thanks!

satanicoo · 09-02-2003, 03:11 PM

*BUMP*!

It turned ou to be? Im curious about this one!

jaydee · 09-02-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by satanicoo
*BUMP*!

It turned ou to be? Im curious about this one!

I don't think anything has been accomplished yet. Something is not right with my mill and I think I am going to have to order some replacment parts to fix the problems. Untill then I have more slop in the table than the width of the endmill it is going to take to make this thing. Which is not good. Once I get caught up on a few things at home I can start digging into it again. Winter is near and more time will be available to mess around (maybe).

nicozeg · 09-02-2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by satanicoo
*BUMP*!

It turned ou to be? Im curious about this one!

It seems that radius become obsolete before seing the light :shrug:

jaydee · 09-02-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nicozeg
It seems that radius become obsolete before seing the light :shrug:

And that raises the question, is such a tough block to make even worth the effort at this point when a easier to make block like a Cascade variant will probably beat it anyway?

bigben2k · 09-03-2003, 09:09 AM

I still want to make it.

Funds is a limit right now, so this is just going to have to wait through a natural progression.

Got a PM from Cathar this morning, and to thank nikhsub1 and me for our contribution, he's sending us a silver edition "Cascade" block.

Thanks Cathar, you're a true gentleman.

satanicoo · 09-03-2003, 10:00 AM

You pay for the material only or he offered it completely? Damn

So you will change your sig now?

bigben2k · 11-24-2003, 11:20 AM

Bump, and a pic of my Cascade SS:

jaydee · 11-24-2003, 12:30 PM

So is there any real reason pursure the Radius? I am pretty sure I am not going to be able to do it on my mill. After the last bunch of milling I have been watching it closely and am not liking what I am seeing as far as slop. I thought it was the table but I got that tightened up, not I am finding the ball screws have some slack. To much to do anything under 1/16" and even that might only be possible in plastic. I will find out over turkey day though.

winewood · 11-24-2003, 01:08 PM

would this one be easier to be made from a mold?

bigben2k · 11-24-2003, 01:41 PM

Hummm possibly, but the fins are really, really small. I don't have the knowledge or equipment to go that route.

I'll have to bug JFettig, once he's finished his CNC conversion.

JFettig · 11-24-2003, 07:23 PM

lol, yeah, Ill be able to do it without a problem.

a few specs for jaydee

:
300oz steppers,@48v
Gecko drives with 10 microsteps
Preloaded ball screws.
Gecko drives+Preloaded ball screws=about .0005"

Spindle speed 0-2500rpm, and 0-9000rpm

Bigben, are you sure you dont want .5mm channels? LOL now that would take a few days

Jon

jaydee · 11-24-2003, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JFettig

a few specs for jaydee:
300oz steppers,@48v
Gecko drives with 10 microsteps
Preloaded ball screws.
Gecko drives+Preloaded ball screws=about .0005"
Spindle speed 0-2500rpm, and 0-9000rpm
Jon

Sounds good Jon! You will like the 9000RPM.

bigben2k · 11-24-2003, 09:40 PM

Glad to see you're still around Jon!

No, the plan is set, and I'm going with it.

Imagine... this thread started in October of last year! (Hiding in shame...) Next time I even ponder doing anything like this, I'll make sure that I have my tools and other sources lined up first...

Tacops · 12-29-2003, 11:18 PM

*bump*

any news on the development bigben2k?

siavash_s_s · 12-30-2003, 12:49 AM

is that going to be lexan top or copper? im thinking that would look good to a consumer with lexan top

bigben2k · 12-31-2003, 01:08 PM

The top is Polycarbonate, 1/2" thick (1/4" would do).

The rest of the design is going to be in trying out various inlet nozzles. Once optimized, I can make a "fixed opening" top, and market it, but the extensive machining required here may put this block outside of most people's price range, and the performance isn't going to be much better than a White Water, if at all.

If there's any venture capitalist reading this: e-mail me

Dieter@be · 12-31-2003, 03:36 PM

oK I didnt read the whole topic but this I wanted to say:

1)Don't loose your motivation because you cant find the right manufactering method.
It would be a pity to make a nice block like this
into something like this just because the first one is a bit harder to machine.
(it is very obvious that the first one would perform much better then the 2nd)

2)about the exact location of the core (in reference to the mounting holes) you'll find anything you need here http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=8412

3)I wonder why everyone always wants his water injected in the shape of a circle, when the core is rectangular. What do you think of my "adapter" idea (upper part of the block adapts the round fitting (from the water inlet) to a rectangular opening (to inject the water on the core). More info in this topic:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=8380 (note 2 first pictures)

bigben2k · 01-02-2004, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter@be

...

3)I wonder why everyone always wants his water injected in the shape of a circle, when the core is rectangular. What do you think of my "adapter" idea (upper part of the block adapts the round fitting (from the water inlet) to a rectangular opening (to inject the water on the core). More info in this topic:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=8380 (note 2 first pictures)

Not giving up.

3) Do you believe that the heat comes up inside the block in a square pattern?

Take a look at this animated GIF:

Dieter@be · 01-02-2004, 04:18 PM

This shows the process on a perspective I never thought of.

The way I interpret this:
there are two ways of heat source/ heat spreading
1)the heat starts right in the middle of the core and expands (thus forming circleshaped isothermes)
2)the core is the hottest spot (shape of rectangular) and around the core circleshaped isothermes

What I see here is the combination of those two. (something in between a circle and a rectangular, because the most heat comes out of the center of the core, but also "some" (but less) heat comes of the other part of the (rectangular) core)

right?

killernoodle · 01-03-2004, 10:45 PM

I see how the heat spreads out in a circular pattern kinda, but I dont understand how it spreads to the sides before the fin right above the core.

What is this a representation of? Is it just heat spreading on a bare waterblock or does the block have simulated coolant running through it?

EDIT: as for the comment about not being able to machine the block with current methods available, die casting seems to be a likely alternative. A rough casting of a block would then be machined on the bottom for flatness and around the core area for a good seal, but the actual cooling structures would benefit from the roughness of the casting: creating more surface area and turbulence than the machined block.

I have read a little on casting, and they say that copper has ideal casting properties, yet it takes a lot more than a wood fire to melt. MAPP gas can be used in the melting process, and a carbon basin will be needed to hold the copper to be melted. Another good thing about this is that you can stick a messed up waterblock in the basin for re-melting into a new waterblock. This would also save on material cost, as you could easily go to home depot and buy some copper pipe to stick in there and melt. A master mold could be made and you could easily sell the blocks in mass quantity due to the simplicity of repeating the process.

Molds can be made from simple clay, then a releasing agent is applied to the mold, then the copper is poured in and allowed to cool, then the mold is split apart and bingo! waterblock.

I assume this process would be less labor intensive, quicker, more repeatable, and most importantly, cheaper than actually machining all those little channels with a <1mm endmill.

JFettig · 01-04-2004, 09:18 AM

Ok killernoodle, tell me how you are going to make a mold?

and I beleve it spreads out in spiral pattern because of the big fin, and the water flow.
bigben2k, did you just find that somewhere, or do you have access to something like that to test with?

Jon

05-27-2003, 09:58 AM	#513
hara Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Malta, Mediterranean Posts: 662	Why don't you cool the motor with a house fan? __________________ - Every great HD crash day is the day before back-up day. - My Past System - "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." - Milton, Paradise Lost. - FMZ

07-10-2003, 07:38 AM	#515
utabintarbo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sterling Hts., MI Posts: 496	WTF? Bump for an update. It's been over a month! __________________ Sarcasm is yet another of the free services we offer!

07-10-2003, 07:38 AM	#516
utabintarbo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sterling Hts., MI Posts: 496	WTF? Bump for an update. It's been over a month! __________________ Sarcasm is yet another of the free services we offer!

07-10-2003, 08:08 AM	#517
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	No progress, none whatsoever! Maybe I should just send the copper to Jaydee: what do you think? Since I came up with an idea that lead to the Cascade, I'm inclined to go that route, but I'm not giving up on Radius: it's going to be built, no matter what. I've had a chance to try to size the shroud in my case, and there's no way that the monstrous res that I made is going to fit, so that's going to have to go back to the drawing board. Maybe I can just mod it, to angle out the inlet, at 90 degrees... but I really need my Dremel to get anywhere from here! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-10-2003, 09:51 AM	#519
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Ok, thanks! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-02-2003, 03:11 PM	#520
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	BUMP! It turned ou to be? Im curious about this one!

09-03-2003, 09:09 AM	#524
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I still want to make it. Funds is a limit right now, so this is just going to have to wait through a natural progression. Got a PM from Cathar this morning, and to thank nikhsub1 and me for our contribution, he's sending us a silver edition "Cascade" block. Thanks Cathar, you're a true gentleman. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-03-2003, 10:00 AM	#525
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	You pay for the material only or he offered it completely? Damn So you will change your sig now?

11-24-2003, 11:20 AM	#526
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Bump, and a pic of my Cascade SS: __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-24-2003, 12:30 PM	#527
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	So is there any real reason pursure the Radius? I am pretty sure I am not going to be able to do it on my mill. After the last bunch of milling I have been watching it closely and am not liking what I am seeing as far as slop. I thought it was the table but I got that tightened up, not I am finding the ball screws have some slack. To much to do anything under 1/16" and even that might only be possible in plastic. I will find out over turkey day though.

11-24-2003, 01:08 PM	#528
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	would this one be easier to be made from a mold? __________________ -winewood-

11-24-2003, 01:41 PM	#529
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Hummm possibly, but the fins are really, really small. I don't have the knowledge or equipment to go that route. I'll have to bug JFettig, once he's finished his CNC conversion. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-24-2003, 07:23 PM	#530
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	lol, yeah, Ill be able to do it without a problem. a few specs for jaydee: 300oz steppers,@48v Gecko drives with 10 microsteps Preloaded ball screws. Gecko drives+Preloaded ball screws=about .0005" Spindle speed 0-2500rpm, and 0-9000rpm Bigben, are you sure you dont want .5mm channels? LOL now that would take a few days Jon

11-24-2003, 09:40 PM	#532
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Glad to see you're still around Jon! No, the plan is set, and I'm going with it. Imagine... this thread started in October of last year! (Hiding in shame...) Next time I even ponder doing anything like this, I'll make sure that I have my tools and other sources lined up first... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-29-2003, 11:18 PM	#533
Tacops Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Malta,Europe Posts: 32	bump any news on the development bigben2k? __________________ NetAdmin By Day,AMD Lover By Night

12-30-2003, 12:49 AM	#534
siavash_s_s Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: here n there Posts: 194	is that going to be lexan top or copper? im thinking that would look good to a consumer with lexan top __________________ buy me a mill

12-31-2003, 01:08 PM	#535
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The top is Polycarbonate, 1/2" thick (1/4" would do). The rest of the design is going to be in trying out various inlet nozzles. Once optimized, I can make a "fixed opening" top, and market it, but the extensive machining required here may put this block outside of most people's price range, and the performance isn't going to be much better than a White Water, if at all. If there's any venture capitalist reading this: e-mail me __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-31-2003, 03:36 PM	#536
Dieter@be Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium\Wetteren Posts: 94	oK I didnt read the whole topic but this I wanted to say: 1)Don't loose your motivation because you cant find the right manufactering method. It would be a pity to make a nice block like this into something like this just because the first one is a bit harder to machine. (it is very obvious that the first one would perform much better then the 2nd) 2)about the exact location of the core (in reference to the mounting holes) you'll find anything you need here http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=8412 3)I wonder why everyone always wants his water injected in the shape of a circle, when the core is rectangular. What do you think of my "adapter" idea (upper part of the block adapts the round fitting (from the water inlet) to a rectangular opening (to inject the water on the core). More info in this topic: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=8380 (note 2 first pictures)

01-02-2004, 04:18 PM	#538
Dieter@be Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium\Wetteren Posts: 94	This shows the process on a perspective I never thought of. The way I interpret this: there are two ways of heat source/ heat spreading 1)the heat starts right in the middle of the core and expands (thus forming circleshaped isothermes) 2)the core is the hottest spot (shape of rectangular) and around the core circleshaped isothermes What I see here is the combination of those two. (something in between a circle and a rectangular, because the most heat comes out of the center of the core, but also "some" (but less) heat comes of the other part of the (rectangular) core) right?

01-03-2004, 10:45 PM	#539
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	I see how the heat spreads out in a circular pattern kinda, but I dont understand how it spreads to the sides before the fin right above the core. What is this a representation of? Is it just heat spreading on a bare waterblock or does the block have simulated coolant running through it? EDIT: as for the comment about not being able to machine the block with current methods available, die casting seems to be a likely alternative. A rough casting of a block would then be machined on the bottom for flatness and around the core area for a good seal, but the actual cooling structures would benefit from the roughness of the casting: creating more surface area and turbulence than the machined block. I have read a little on casting, and they say that copper has ideal casting properties, yet it takes a lot more than a wood fire to melt. MAPP gas can be used in the melting process, and a carbon basin will be needed to hold the copper to be melted. Another good thing about this is that you can stick a messed up waterblock in the basin for re-melting into a new waterblock. This would also save on material cost, as you could easily go to home depot and buy some copper pipe to stick in there and melt. A master mold could be made and you could easily sell the blocks in mass quantity due to the simplicity of repeating the process. Molds can be made from simple clay, then a releasing agent is applied to the mold, then the copper is poured in and allowed to cool, then the mold is split apart and bingo! waterblock. I assume this process would be less labor intensive, quicker, more repeatable, and most importantly, cheaper than actually machining all those little channels with a <1mm endmill. __________________ I have a nice computer. Last edited by killernoodle; 01-03-2004 at 10:55 PM.

01-04-2004, 09:18 AM	#540
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	Ok killernoodle, tell me how you are going to make a mold? and I beleve it spreads out in spiral pattern because of the big fin, and the water flow. bigben2k, did you just find that somewhere, or do you have access to something like that to test with? Jon

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