Block design...need insight and maybe a name? - Page 2

Balinju · 04-10-2003, 04:07 PM

i think you are obsessed with tring to disturb the flow of the water. Remember that you have to concentrate on the middle of the block, the part which in over the core, so i think that you should retain those pins but drop most of the outside walls, or otherwise at least make them straight to reduce the flow restriction

bigben2k · 04-10-2003, 04:25 PM

Listen to Balinju: he picks up quickly on these things!

My block's fin pattern has a 20mm diameter, to cover a Barton core, which is 7.47 mm by ~13mm.

winewood · 04-10-2003, 05:34 PM

That last block looked like my cubicle at work.. the middle.. my boss and a staff meeting.

LiquidRulez · 04-10-2003, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
That last block looked like my cubicle at work.. the middle.. my boss and a staff meeting.

LMFAO !

LiquidRulez · 04-10-2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayman2k2

Okay, water enters block through a + shaped nozzle, and leaves at the front of the block.

I have another idea where the block is 1/8" and it has jaydee116's patent pending () pyramids...

This design is even more restrictive than the previous 2.
I think Balinju sumed it upfor you when he suggested getting rid of most of the walls OR atleast make them straight.

Think simple patterns...............they usually work better than anything else in a WB

Balinju · 04-11-2003, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
That last block looked like my cubicle at work.. the middle.. my boss and a staff meeting.

lol, i never thought of that

davidzo · 04-11-2003, 01:50 PM

maybe this is interesting for you

This is my custom made Block, here is the whole story

I just had the idea to make a block because i was bored...and while working I developed the final Design

My "Z" design. It semms a little bit similar to your first Suggestion of Block Design.

Balinju · 04-11-2003, 04:03 PM

Is that hand made with a dremmel???

nice job but i still think that it is too much restrictive

Balinju · 04-11-2003, 04:04 PM

Sorry i can't read that thread, i don't understand that language

davidzo · 04-12-2003, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Balinju
Is that hand made with a dremmel???

nice job but i still think that it is too much restrictive

yes

- it don't looks very good i know

Look at the other Thread, i made some small channels in the acrylic Top too, so i hope it don't restricts too much.

Quote:

Originally posted by Balinju
Sorry i can't read that thread, i don't understand that language

- its simple German

there are many Translation tools in the net, maybe you can use one of them

Volenti · 04-12-2003, 06:30 AM

What I would do with that base;

Carve out the fins covered in brown, they aren't contributing to cooling, only restricting flow. Use a slotted intake jet in the light blue position, dual outlets.

JFettig · 04-12-2003, 08:44 AM

guys, when designing a waterblock, you gotta keep in mind how much of the surface are is going to be actually used.... when you have high surface area, a thin base, and high velocity, very little will be used. somewhere around 1.5cm^2 or even less... you want to make it use as little as possible, by doing that means that all the cooling will be done quicker and better, but if it should be bigger, then the design isnt picking up the heat as well....

get where Im comming from??

Jon

Balinju · 04-12-2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volenti
What I would do with that base;

Carve out the fins covered in brown, they aren't contributing to cooling, only restricting flow. Use a slotted intake jet in the light blue position, dual outlets.

i agree totally

krazy · 04-12-2003, 01:22 PM

The basic idea of the block looks good, but you've got to round the sharp corners at the edges to let the coolant move more easily through the block, like they were mentioning above. Maybe drill a round hole there to corner between the sets of fins.

davidzo · 04-13-2003, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volenti
What I would do with that base;

Carve out the fins covered in brown, they aren't contributing to cooling, only restricting flow. Use a slotted intake jet in the light blue position, dual outlets.

yes, that was what i was actually thinking about. The jet inlet in the middle and maybe some more and bigger channels. Unfortunately i had no milling tools for my dremel ans so i could only carve out some Channels... - so that (my) Design is just so bad made and not really consequent because of the Circumstances...

davidzo · 04-13-2003, 05:18 PM

here another design:
A friend designed and build it with a Dremel.

davidzo · 04-13-2003, 05:21 PM

here again the pic: I just recognized that you can only view the upper picture if you are registered to our Forum...

Rayman2k2 · 04-18-2003, 06:53 AM

aright, i made a new plan up on the plane ride back from my vacation in Paris (BEAUTIFUL city btw), i just need to put it into Maya, and i'll upload it ASAP. I've got two designs....soooo...i guess....you'lll....uh....see them both?

Rayman2k2 · 04-18-2003, 08:09 AM

i have a question....on the MAZE3 block, there are grooves at the bottom of the block...what purpose do they serve? more turbulence? and another thing...is turbulence good? or bad?

Rayman2k2 · 04-18-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by davidzo
here again the pic: I just recognized that you can only view the upper picture if you are registered to our Forum...

very nice!!!

Rayman2k2 · 04-18-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JFettig
guys, when designing a waterblock, you gotta keep in mind how much of the surface are is going to be actually used.... when you have high surface area, a thin base, and high velocity, very little will be used. somewhere around 1.5cm^2 or even less... you want to make it use as little as possible, by doing that means that all the cooling will be done quicker and better, but if it should be bigger, then the design isnt picking up the heat as well....

get where Im comming from??

Jon

okay, basicallly, the less surface area used, the better? am i understanding this correctly?

8-Ball · 04-18-2003, 08:49 AM

OK, I'll try and summarise some of the common principles which might apply to your design.

1. Thin base - very little material between the water and the cpu. However, this increases the "spreading resistance" of the base, which leads to point 2.

2. Efficient design - provided you have an efficient design, ie microfins or loads of small pins, then the fact that the heat won't be spreading across the base doesn't matter.

3. Only have fins/pins where you need them - if your design is sufficiently good, then you only need your fin/pin pattern above the core, with a little overlap. (So looking at your first design, the pins in the centre will do almost all of the cooling while the fins leading to the "basins" will simply add flow resistance.

4. Centre Inlet - while not necessary, this has proven to be successful, particularly when combined with jet impingement and microfins/pins. The main benefit is the increased turbulence (GOOD!) which breaks down the barrier layer at the surface, increasing the efficiency of the block.

Follow these simple suggestions with your own interpretation and you shouldn't go too far wrong.

Also, please understand that these are, by no means, rules set in stone that you MUST follow, they are just ideas that people have had a lot of success with recently.

I hope this helps you along your way.

8-ball

8-Ball · 04-18-2003, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayman2k2
okay, basicallly, the less surface area used, the better? am i understanding this correctly?

In case I didn't specifically answer your question in my last post, I will reinforce the point.

A good waterblock will have a huge surface area, combined with an efficient design allowing for the conduction of heat away from the cpu.

BUT, it is not necessary to have fins/pins further away from the core as they will just add to the flow resistance, lowering the overall flow rate in your system while giveing little or no benefit to cooling.

In short, only cool the bit that needs cooling.

This is a concept which has yet to reach many of the mass market waterblocks, which is why people saw such an improvement when using the White Water.

Again, hope this clears things up.

8-ball

Volenti · 04-18-2003, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayman2k2
okay, basicallly, the less surface area used, the better? am i understanding this correctly?

not really, more how you use the surface area that you have.

and if you have sufficient surface area close enough to the core, and sufficient water volecity over that surface area, then there's no need for extra surface area that's away from the core area that's not helping to convect heat to the water.

[edit] lol beat me by a minute

8-Ball · 04-18-2003, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volenti
[edit] lol beat me by a minute

Gotta be quick these days

8-ball

04-10-2003, 04:07 PM	#26
Balinju Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 495	i think you are obsessed with tring to disturb the flow of the water. Remember that you have to concentrate on the middle of the block, the part which in over the core, so i think that you should retain those pins but drop most of the outside walls, or otherwise at least make them straight to reduce the flow restriction __________________ So the bullet proof vest aint a $hit when d laser is pointed to your head Kid

04-10-2003, 05:34 PM	#28
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	That last block looked like my cubicle at work.. the middle.. my boss and a staff meeting. __________________ -winewood-

04-11-2003, 04:03 PM	#33
Balinju Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 495	Is that hand made with a dremmel??? nice job but i still think that it is too much restrictive __________________ So the bullet proof vest aint a $hit when d laser is pointed to your head Kid

04-11-2003, 04:04 PM	#34
Balinju Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 495	Sorry i can't read that thread, i don't understand that language __________________ So the bullet proof vest aint a $hit when d laser is pointed to your head Kid

04-12-2003, 01:22 PM	#39
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	The basic idea of the block looks good, but you've got to round the sharp corners at the edges to let the coolant move more easily through the block, like they were mentioning above. Maybe drill a round hole there to corner between the sets of fins. __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project)

04-10-2003, 04:25 PM	#27
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Listen to Balinju: he picks up quickly on these things! My block's fin pattern has a 20mm diameter, to cover a Barton core, which is 7.47 mm by ~13mm.

04-12-2003, 08:44 AM	#37
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	guys, when designing a waterblock, you gotta keep in mind how much of the surface are is going to be actually used.... when you have high surface area, a thin base, and high velocity, very little will be used. somewhere around 1.5cm^2 or even less... you want to make it use as little as possible, by doing that means that all the cooling will be done quicker and better, but if it should be bigger, then the design isnt picking up the heat as well.... get where Im comming from?? Jon

04-13-2003, 05:18 PM	#41
davidzo Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hamburg Posts: 141	here another design: A friend designed and build it with a Dremel.

04-18-2003, 06:53 AM	#43
Rayman2k2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 190	aright, i made a new plan up on the plane ride back from my vacation in Paris (BEAUTIFUL city btw), i just need to put it into Maya, and i'll upload it ASAP. I've got two designs....soooo...i guess....you'lll....uh....see them both? __________________ -Insert Signature Here-

04-18-2003, 08:09 AM	#44
Rayman2k2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 190	i have a question....on the MAZE3 block, there are grooves at the bottom of the block...what purpose do they serve? more turbulence? and another thing...is turbulence good? or bad? __________________ -Insert Signature Here-

04-18-2003, 08:49 AM	#47
8-Ball Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oxford University, UK Posts: 452	OK, I'll try and summarise some of the common principles which might apply to your design. 1. Thin base - very little material between the water and the cpu. However, this increases the "spreading resistance" of the base, which leads to point 2. 2. Efficient design - provided you have an efficient design, ie microfins or loads of small pins, then the fact that the heat won't be spreading across the base doesn't matter. 3. Only have fins/pins where you need them - if your design is sufficiently good, then you only need your fin/pin pattern above the core, with a little overlap. (So looking at your first design, the pins in the centre will do almost all of the cooling while the fins leading to the "basins" will simply add flow resistance. 4. Centre Inlet - while not necessary, this has proven to be successful, particularly when combined with jet impingement and microfins/pins. The main benefit is the increased turbulence (GOOD!) which breaks down the barrier layer at the surface, increasing the efficiency of the block. Follow these simple suggestions with your own interpretation and you shouldn't go too far wrong. Also, please understand that these are, by no means, rules set in stone that you MUST follow, they are just ideas that people have had a lot of success with recently. I hope this helps you along your way. 8-ball __________________ For those who believe that water needs to travel slowly through the radiator for optimum performance, read the following thread. READ ALL OF THIS!!!!

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