OK guys...you have convinsed me..!!!!

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

OK guys...first off all I wanna thank you very much....you are grate. Really apreciate your help.

As it looks now:

Looks like we all can agree that running the pumps in series is a god thing....and so be it. I will run them in series...to gain head.

I have read in some reviews about the swiftech blocks..and just like bigben2k said...these blocks doesn´t seem to benefit alot from very high flowrates. So i´m gonna stick with my 2 1048´s and see what the can do for me..for a starter. Not a big thing to exchange them later on.

As of the blocks..runnign them in series or parallel. Here comes the tricky part for me....but somehow airspirits idea of going with 2 smal loops feels like "the thing" for me :
1. I just can´t help my self from dislikeing the idea of pumping hot water in to the gpu block.

2. As I said..it seemes like swiftech blocks doesn´t benefit from high flowrates...so I´ll just hope theres enough flow in the 1048´s to remove the wattage from the blocks to the rad.

So I think I´m gonna run them in small separate loops between the splitters.


Now..next question is...what would be the right order to place everything in..??
Some people says rad right before the blocks to feed the blocks with as cold water as possible. This way I´ll remove the heat coming from the pumps in to the coolant.
And the also mean that if I put the rad after the blocks,...the newly cold watert going from rad to res will warm up a little bit in the res.

Other people say rads after the blocks...they feel that I need as much pressure/flow as possible on thoose blocks...and that the flow rate will drop down to a level where the HC will cool the coolant better.

So what do you guys say:

res-->pumps(in series)-->rad-->splitter-->blocks-->splitter-->back to res

OR..??

res-->pumps(in series)-->splitter-->blocks-->splitter-->rad-->back to res.


P.S and again..thanks guys for everything D.S

[bigben2k]

The pressure thing is not important, except for the pump inlet, so the argument that the rad should go after the block is invalid. The flow rate is the same at every point in a loop: those that don't believe that don't know what they're talking about.

The exception, of course, is parallel setups.

Blocks in series will each see all of the flow, but the total pressure drop will reduce the pump output.

Blocks in parallel will see part of the total flow, but they'll allow the pump to provide more flow.

So it's down to 2 choices:
-all of less
or
-half of more

In your case, I think Airspirit and I agree that "half of more" (aka parallel blocks) would be best.


This is where it gets tricky.

If the blocks have exactly the same pressure drop for a given flow rate, then your total flow will be split equally.

If that's not the case (and it applies to you), then one block will get more flow than the other. You can solve this by throttling the flow to the GPU block, with a ball valve.

As for the order, it should be:
res-->pumps(in series)-->splitter-->blocks-->splitter-->rad-->back to res , as you pointed out last. this will (as Airspirit wrote) reduce the temp going into the pump(s).

[airspirit]

Ben is right on the money. Throttle back the GPU loop with either a ball valve or some other throttling device.

Definitely rad->res->pump. That will give the pump plenty of stuff to pump, and will help prevent hose collapse.

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

OK...to sum it up..!!!

Heres how I´ll go:

res-->pump(in series)-->splitter-->blocks-->splitter-->rad-->back to res

I´ll mount the pumps in series.
I´ll go with ofcourse 2 splitters wheras one of the outlets/inlets will be 3/8" for the gpu and the other 1/2 for the cpu.
So far I got everything clear´n tidy in my head....but have one last question though befor I go haxx0r with the jiggsaw on my case.

I have 2 places where I can put my rad...either in the bottom front...or in the middel back under the PSU...ofcourse standing up. With one 120mm fan on each side with a 1" shroud.

Where would you suggest..???

[airspirit]

That is more of a personal preference call: what will be easiest for you?

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

Originally posted by airspirit
That is more of a personal preference call: what will be easiest for you?

OK...thnx alot.

I thought more in terms of airtraps....I mean as long I keep the res as the highest point in my system...ther shouldnt be any problems??
I see many people mount there rads in the top off there cases...surely there must alot off air bubbles trapped there??

[saton472]

I suggest you put the rad in the front of the case for two reasons. One, you shuldent have it neer the mobo because remember the rad radiates heat and you want the mobo cool. And two, if you have it up front then you can pull the cool air outside through the rad and have a venting setup push it out the back.

[airspirit]

Depending on the orientation of the radiator, you could put it at the top with no bubbles. Just look at the design of the core and decide which way it needs to be oriented to limit trapped air, and if you have a strong enough pump (and efficient enough air trap), you'll blow all the air out.

[g.l.amour]

this has prolly been said before, but rotor once set me very straight on this one.

u want the majority of cooling power on the cpu. so assuming that series was the best way to sort the blox. i was looking for a very low flow restriction gpu block. high flow restriction is sort of equal to good cooling. but since gpu didn't need all that much cooling it might as well be some open chamber design like swifty uses.

why not make a massive flow restriction gpu block, and put it parallel, that way most of the flow would still be reserved for cpu.

not to say one way is better than the other, but:
high flow restriction gpu block => parallel
low flow restriction gpu block => series

makes sense?

[airspirit]

That is why were were recommending a throttling valve on the GPU loop to divert more flow to the CPU. Already covered.

[g.l.amour]

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

There has been a slight change in my plans.
I´m going to swap my Chieftech Dragon for a LianLi PC70...it will arriwe sometime in next week..hopefully Wednesday-Thursday.
So I i´m just waitng for the case then I´m gonna go haxx0r with the jiggsaw.

Another thing though.....earlier in this post we talked about the pumps...I said I was going to stick with my 2 1048´s...but an oportunity has been given to me to buy a Eheim 1060/1260(same same but different )....for a resonable price
I hve been looking around for other pumps...but here they are expensive or hard to get.

So what do you guys think...will a 1060 do the job better in my case..???

Pump output 2280 l/h 502 lmp. gal./h. 602 U.S. gal./h.

Delivery head 3,10 m/wat.col. 10 ft. 2 in./wat.col.

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

I have also been looking at the Iwaki pumps....anyone have any experience with them...???

Any god..???

If so...wich would you recommend...??

I´m reaching for somewhere around 40l/m....don´t know exactly what that would be in gallons..but a guestimate would be 10g/h.

[Skulemate]

I've been using the 20-RZT for a little while now, and I must say that it's 10 times the pump that my Little Giant used to be. I would recommend this pump to anyone crazy enough to spend the money. However, it will not satisfy your target flow of 40L/min (which is far more flow than you'll ever need). If I may ask, why are you shooting that high?

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

Originally posted by Skulemate
However, it will not satisfy your target flow of 40L/min (which is far more flow than you'll ever need). If I may ask, why are you shooting that high?

Well...ccording to people in this forum my 2 1048´s aren´t the best ones to use...will work but not in the riggs full potential.

So I thought mabye I´ll swap them..for another pump.
If I´m not mistaken Airspirit sugested I´d go for about 700g/h...so there ya go.

What would be your sugestions then..???

[Skulemate]

Originally posted by [NH]Naughtyboy
If I´m not mistaken Airspirit sugested I´d go for about 700g/h...so there ya go.

Ok, that made me read the entire thread instead of just skimming it... and while Airspirit did suggest you look at a Danner 700gph pump, he wasn't in any way implying that you'd actually get 700gph worth of flow through the system. That value was simply the pump's maximum flow rate. Ask Ben sometime about aiming higher than 4gpm in a watercooling system, and he'll tell you about some of the problem you'll face. Personally, I'm much happier around playing around the 1.5-2 gpm flow range, and I feel that aiming for flows higher than this simply aren't worth the effort ($400 Iwaki pumps aren't for everyone).

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

Originally posted by Skulemate
I'm much happier around playing around the 1.5-2 gpm flow range, and I feel that aiming for flows higher than this simply aren't worth the effort ($400 Iwaki pumps aren't for everyone).

OK...so you suggest me settle down on a flowrate at about 2gpm...and look for better "head"...instead..???

[Skulemate]

Exactly... 2gpm actual flow is a more realistic target.

[bigben2k]

Bingo!

This is where you can try to calculate the pressure drop, and spec out a good pump. You'll find that the pump you want can handle a higher pressure.

I remember seeing a guy on OC forum that bought a pool pump, but he didn't consider the pressure aspect: the result is that it would do no better than my Little Giant 2-MDQ-SC. In fact it would use a lot more power to do the same job.

[BrianW]

In my next setup ( Airspirit knows the details) - http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=5710 , I too have decided to go with an Iwaki. I am looking at the 20-RT. This one has good flow (410 GPH) with good pressure (14' of water). Is this one good or would you suggest the one that is specd for high pressure? The 20-RZT which can handle over 22' of pressure, but only pumps to a max of 174 GPH?

Brian W

[gmat]

Yep but you'll get a better effective flow through your loop.

As for restricting the GPU loop, just use a Y splitter before, and use 3/8" for the GPU block (and NB block in series if you want). With a short 1/2" loop going to and from the CPU block, back to the 2nd Y, you'll get a shorter loop and far less restriction for the CPU. Hence no need for a valve...

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

Yeeah...well I also have a hard time decideing wich one of the Iwakis to go for.
There are so many to go for. These are the ones I´m looking at:

MD-20R(M)-N
MD-20RX(M)-N
MD-20RZ(M)-N

MD-30R(M)-N
MD-30RX(M)-N
MD-30RZ(M)-N

Here are some diagrams of there capacity:

[gmat]

Go for the low flow, high head series (the 'Z' ones). Better suited to PC watercooling. (depends, of course, on the total head of your loop...)

[[NH]Naughtyboy]

OMFG..!!!!!

During this weekend...I have been as you can see looking in to the Iwaki pumps.
Today Monday I phoned the company and talked to them about the pumps....ofcourse I asked them what it will cost.
Dear good...they charge almost as much as a hole ordinary WC rigg costs.

MD-20 RZ = Swe 3816kr GB 275P US 445D

MD-30 RZ = Swe 4575kr GB 330P US 533D


MAAAN..!!!!...thats just incane....pure incanity.
No way I´m gonna pay that money for a friggin pump.

Gues I´m gonna have to look in to other pumps..as the VA or Hydor. Been searching for Danner pumps...just can´t find them here in Sweden.

[g.l.amour]

that is just too much. i heard around in belgium, but here we have a distributor of iwaki. it was still too much, came to 160 - 200€. but 500, those guys have to be joking