Shooting myself in the foot with 3/8" tubing?

[Groth]

Check the specs, or measure for yourself, or take a leap of faith based on 3/8" ID being the de facto standard for 1/4" NPT connections.

[nexxo]

Originally Posted by dacooltech

Nexxo, FYI pipe size is the accepted industry designation, not the actual measured size. The inside diameter of 1/4"NPT thread is 3/8...

Originally Posted by Groth

National Pipe Thread, a very old standard created in the day of cast iron pipe. 1/4" NPT threads would be found on the outside of a thick walled pipe that had a one quarter inch inside diameter.

With better metalurgy/maunfacturing these days, we can make pipes with thinner walls. Thus a larger inside diameter with the same traditional 1/4" NPT threads.

Thanks for the info. It is all so confusing! As I'm in the UK, I worked with BSP thread, and here 1/4" BSP still has 1/4" ID, while 3/8" BSP has 3/8" ID. I sort of logically assumed that the same would apply to NPT.

Should have known better... since when does logic apply in PC modding!

[einsig]

Originally Posted by Groth

Check the specs, or measure for yourself, or take a leap of faith based on 3/8" ID being the de facto standard for 1/4" NPT connections.

Do I detect a little sarcasm? Hmmmm? Haha. Seriously though, this is just new to me and I don't want to bugger up a $75 res before I've even used the thing. Just trying to be damn sure before I cut.

Just to clarify, I can (and should use) 1/4" NPT fittings that will have a 3/8" ID. I'll probably try to go "one louder" for the outlet with a 1/2" ID. Not sure what the thread size would be then.....uggh.

Sorry for all the newb'ness. I REALLY appreciate the info thus far. You've all been a great help.

[Groth]

Sadly, no sarcasm. While there are (very old and strangely named) standards in the US for the threads themselves, there aren't any for thing that have those threads.

So you could have one manufacturer who makes thicker walls to increase strength, one who makes really thin wall to cut their material costs, one who has sloppy machines and products with loose tolerances, etc.

And that's not even getting to different materials....

What was the topic again? (there's yer sarcasm! )

[einsig]

Originally Posted by Groth

Sadly, no sarcasm. While there are (very old and strangely named) standards in the US for the threads themselves, there aren't any for thing that have those threads.

So you could have one manufacturer who makes thicker walls to increase strength, one who makes really thin wall to cut their material costs, one who has sloppy machines and products with loose tolerances, etc.

And that's not even getting to different materials....

What was the topic again? (there's yer sarcasm! )

Gotcha. So are there any fittings from watercooling site (or anywhere) that we know we can trust for the sizes and dimensions? (I'm in the US BTW)

[pHaestus]

The aquacomputer res most likely does NOT use 1/4" NTP. I'll wager it is BSP; a non tapered thread that has a slightly different tpi (thread per inch) than NTP and relies on an o-ring at the end to seal. Having said that, 1/4" NPT fittings with 3/8" barbs thread into the BSP reasonably well while the 1/4" NPT x 1/2" barbs barbs do NOT. I haven't ever tried the Plug N cool barbs on a BSP block...one minute and I will

[Groth]

I thought the idea was to bore the existing holes larger, then new barbs.

[einsig]

Originally Posted by Groth

I thought the idea was to bore the existing holes larger, then new barbs.

That's my idea. Maybe I wasn't clear. With Groth's last post I'm now confused again. Dear God, you'd think some as simple as threaded fittings would be....well simple.

[Groth]

I though that's what you were thinkin', then pH's post with screwing NPT into BSP got me flustered. BTW, I like 1/2" NPT fittings--usually about 5/8" ID.

Carry on!

[einsig]

Originally Posted by Groth

I though that's what you were thinkin', then pH's post with screwing NPT into BSP got me flustered. BTW, I like 1/2" NPT fittings--usually about 5/8" ID.

Carry on!

Thanks for the clarification. I wonder if I have room to drill a 1/2" NPT in the bottom of an AquaTube 1.1? I'm just gonna buy one and see what the largest is I can fit. I'm trying to source a v1.0 if I can so i don't have to worry about that. I doubt I'll find it though. Thanks for you input.

[pauldenton]

Originally Posted by nexxo

Thanks for the info. It is all so confusing! As I'm in the UK, I worked with BSP thread, and here 1/4" BSP still has 1/4" ID, while 3/8" BSP has 3/8" ID. I sort of logically assumed that the same would apply to NPT.

Should have known better... since when does logic apply in PC modding!

i believe you will find that (assuming you're referring to the ID of the fitting..) it varies according to the material amongst other things and if it happens to be 1/4" ID then that's by chance rather than design..... i seem to recall you and i covered this ground in another thread (on bit-tech iirc)

the OD of the thread is the standard - and is much larger than the nominal size
http://www.newmantools.com/taps/bsp.htm

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

The aquacomputer res most likely does NOT use 1/4" NTP. I'll wager it is BSP; a non tapered thread that has a slightly different tpi (thread per inch) than NTP and relies on an o-ring at the end to seal. Having said that, 1/4" NPT fittings with 3/8" barbs thread into the BSP reasonably well while the 1/4" NPT x 1/2" barbs barbs do NOT. I haven't ever tried the Plug N cool barbs on a BSP block...one minute and I will

Most watercooling gear uses BSPT - tapered BSP threads, they're similar to NPT except the TPI difference. It's quite uncommon to see people using BSPP as they need an o-ring or whatever.

Originally Posted by nexxos

Thanks for the info. It is all so confusing! As I'm in the UK, I worked with BSP thread, and here 1/4" BSP still has 1/4" ID, while 3/8" BSP has 3/8" ID. I sort of logically assumed that the same would apply to NPT

No they aren't - BSP are similar overall dimension to NPT, 1/4" BSP is typically around 3/8" ID and 1/2" OD.

[nexxo]

No they aren't - BSP are similar overall dimension to NPT, 1/4" BSP is typically around 3/8" ID and 1/2" OD.

Really? I have barbs here with 1/2" (well, 16mm really) OD on the thread, and 3/8" ID. They were sold to me as 3/8" BSP thread barbs. I get the impression there are as many variations as there are barbs...

[quicksilverXP]

Ay Nexxo. What model numbers (or sizes) of the Phi Ton clamps will fit over 1/2" barbs, and 3/8" barbs (assuming for 1/2"barbs the tubing size of 3/4" OD tubing is used and for 3/8" barbs the tubing size of 1/2" OD tubing is used).

Also, for my next rig do you mind if I steal your pump bracket idea? I guarantee you it won't look the same... haha... in fact... it'll be uglier since I don't know anyone with a metal shop.

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by nexxo

Really? I have barbs here with 1/2" (well, 16mm really) OD on the thread, and 3/8" ID. They were sold to me as 3/8" BSP thread barbs. I get the impression there are as many variations as there are barbs...

Check the link posted by pauldenton - BSP is defined by the OD of the thread, not the ID. For reference a 3/8" BSP should be 0.656" (16.6624mm) OD so your barb is indeed a 3/8" BSP. 16mm isn't even close to 1/2" though.

[nexxo]

Originally Posted by Butcher

Check the link posted by pauldenton - BSP is defined by the OD of the thread, not the ID. For reference a 3/8" BSP should be 0.656" (16.6624mm) OD so your barb is indeed a 3/8" BSP. 16mm isn't even close to 1/2" though.

The way I get it, 3/8" is 0.375" or 9.525mm, which indeed corresonds to the ID of the 3/8" thread. Hence I gathered that '3/8" BSP' refers to the ID, not the OD which, BTW, is indeed 16mm. (1/2" is 12.7mm, I know...)

@ quicksilverXP: determining the right size Phi-Ton clamps is easy. If you are using thick-walled Tygon (3mm wall thickness) then it is simply a matter of adding 6mm onto the barb diameter. If you're using other tubing, measure its OD.

Then, looking at the reference table :at Phi-Ton here: you can see that the clamps have a max. hose OD and will constrict to a minimum ID diameter. What you want is clamps that accomodate at least your OD tubing or larger, but will be able to constrict to a ID smaller than your tubing (otherwise it won't clamp, obviously!).

So for 3/8" (9.525mm) barbs you are looking at clamps that can accomodate 15.525mm = 0.6112" OD tubing. The 1A-05 clamp accomodates up to 0.635" OD tubing but constricts down to 0.55". You could also use the 1A-06 but the 1A-05 provides a nicer, tighter fit.

For 1/2" (12.700mm) barbs you are looking for clamps that accomodate 18.700mm = 0.7362" OD tubing. The 1A-07 clamp accomodates up to 0.745" tubing but constricts down to 0.66".

One word of warning: those clamps are pretty but have a fairly large OD. If the barbs you want to use them on are spaced fairly close together on the block, you may get into trouble trying to fit them. Look at the table for the OD of the chosen clamp (Dim. C) and measure first whether your barbs are spaced sufficiently far apart.

Feel free to use my bracket idea. Sharing ideas is what modding forums are for!

[pauldenton]

Originally Posted by nexxo

The way I get it, 3/8" is 0.375" or 9.525mm, which indeed corresonds to the ID of the 3/8" thread. Hence I gathered that '3/8" BSP' refers to the ID, not the OD which, BTW, is indeed 16mm. (1/2" is 12.7mm, I know...)

the thing is that the fittings will vary - you happen to have some that match the nominal diimension, but others may not - the 3/8" BSP fittings on later LRWWs and the cascades for example are considerably wider than that...

in teh thread i referred too a sample of different 1/4" BSP 1/2" OD barbs varied between 10MM and 8.5MM ID iirc .....

[nexxo]

Originally Posted by pauldenton

the thing is that the fittings will vary - you happen to have some that match the nominal diimension, but others may not - the 3/8" BSP fittings on later LRWWs and the cascades for example are considerably wider than that...

in the thread i referred too a sample of different 1/4" BSP 1/2" OD barbs varied between 10MM and 8.5MM ID iirc .....

So, as with everything in life, Your Mileage May Vary...