Should we be looking at transmission coolers instead of heatecores?

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by JoeKamel

As far as Zerex goes, how much thicker is it than water? Never used it before..

I haven't tried running it through a viscosimeter (one of those pails with a calibrated hole in the bottom) but it seems to be the same as water - and I'm running it at 10%, as recommended by Zerex/Valvoline, not the 5% recommended by cooltechnica.
AFAIK it's just an anti corrosion package (which you want), water wetter , which you don't (IMO) need, and a bit of dye (sadly, pink dye).
I don't know Hydrx - if it doesn't have glycol in it, it's probably a good choice too.

[JamesAvery22]

Originally Posted by JoeKamel

...Also, they have 3/8" push on barbed inlets and outlets, but from the way it looks, you may be able to cut off the barbs and put on 1/2" barbs, though I don't know how well you'd be able to join new barbs to to the tanks since they're Al.
...

yeah thats starting to erk me... I find huge ones but the inlet barbs are like 5/16" Found a really nice 11 x 11 x 1 with those same tiny barbs. Why would they do that??? Easier routing of small tubing underneith the car?

[BillA]

these work with the sliding vane (positive displacement) pump in an automatic transmission
the deltaT can exceed 200°F
why do they need larger ?

if you think a bit, its all clear

[SysCrusher]

Don't forget high pressure.

[BillA]

I think the return is open, so the pressure is not actually much over the drop across the unit

[SysCrusher]

Your right. It is open and it's the last thing in the loop. Now I'm curious and have my eyes on an extra oil pressure gauge.

[JWFokker]

Ha ha! I knew using 3/8" ID tubing would pay off.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by JWFokker

Ha ha! I knew using 3/8" ID tubing would pay off.

the logical choice
lol

[JWFokker]

But the question is, what (flawed) logic did I use when making that decision?

I got 3/8" tubing because it's easier to route, it's cheaper, and the MCW6000 benefits from the higher fluid velocity resulting from the smaller diameter tubing. Hopefully the Storm G4 will display similar traits.

But I have to admit I also did it because everyone else said 1/2" ID was better (also the primary reason for using a Mag 3). I'll go out of my way to do things the 'substandard' way just to do it.

[BillA]

its reassuring to know that all the Swiftech customers have managed to get by with "substandard" tubing, wbs, etc.
j/k j/k
"flawed logic" is merely a supposition 'till demonstrated so
your Mag3 may provide a datum

[JWFokker]

I took the proper precautions, replacing the o-ring with RTV sealant and I used nylon fittings and teflon tape. Everything has proven leak free thusfar.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by JWFokker

But the question is, what (flawed) logic did I use when making that decision?

I got 3/8" tubing because ...higher fluid velocity resulting from the smaller diameter tubing.

You may find a flaw in the "higher fluid velocity" part.
Yes, your fluid is moving faster in the smaller ID hose, but that does not necessarily translate to higher velocity in the water block, where it counts (not that the 6000 seems to need high velocity anyway).
If anything, the higher velocity in the narrower tubing will translate into higher friction, which, in turn will cause lower overall system flow, which means lower fluid velocity in your waterblock.
IMHO, the tubing runs we use in PCs are so short that it doesn't really make much difference between 3/8 and 1/2, but I'd be careful about thinking about 3/8" tubing as something that improved flow.
Bob
PS: If you are thinking about automotive velocity stacks and or / exhaust headers and how diameter/length plays into that, that is impulse flow and not at all the same (not to mention that, for the exhaust, the speed of sound in hot gas plays a part as well...)

[MaxxxRacer]

Ok, well this is all fun and games, but does anyone have any benchies yet. if these things improve cooling that much over our oh so beloved heatercores there is going to be another mad rush for these things.

The 3/8 thing is kind of annoying as i run all 1/2inch tygon and my entire system is 1/2inch. I think my iwaki would blow a fuse if i put 3/8 on there.

Bob is right about the impulse flow. Forgive me if we are talkign about 2 different things. with smaller tubing you wil get a more powerful jet. as seen in cahtards storm. (the pics with the gysers). That is nice, but you only want that in the block itself. inside of the tubes themselves you dont care about how far it would spray if you pulled it off your block and aimed it wildly about the room. You want the tubing to provide the block with the maximum amount of water possible at any given point.

[JamesAvery22]

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

...
The 3/8 thing is kind of annoying as i run all 1/2inch tygon and my entire system is 1/2inch. I think my iwaki would blow a fuse if i put 3/8 on there.

...

I've seen a handfull of single pass coolers that have 3/8 or 5/16" ID fittings but the tube the goes from the push-on fitting to the actual tube/fins is larger.
So it necks down from something like 1/2"+ to 3/8". Forgot who, sorry, but someone suggested just cutting off the 3/8" fitting and going directly to the tube.

Only problem is the ones I saw that did that weren't very large. Im looking for one thats atleast 10" x 10".

if anyone sees any like this pleeeease post it here.

Thanks

[JWFokker]

You know what sucks? Finding out that the dimensions of the transmission cooler include the barbs and that the finned area is only 50% wider than my 2-342. So not quite wide enough to mount 4 120mm fans. I'll be mounting four of them on there regardless, but half of the fan's output will be going to waste unless I build some crazy looking shroud.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by JWFokker

...the dimensions of the transmission cooler include the barbs

Now there's an important piece of data.
heater cores - sizes are finned area, add for tanks and barbs
trans coolers - sizes are finned ares and tanks and barbs
(That is - if we can generalize from your one data point - sorry you had to be the pioneer who got shot up by the natives... Anyone willing to stop by an auto parts store to see if this is the way trans coolers are measured...?)

[JWFokker]

I'll use it anyway but that certainly was a surprise for me. I thought it looked small when I took it out of the box. And while I thought I would have some extra area, it's got exactly the same length of finned area as the 2-342 and is only a little wider, so it is decidedly too small. I thought for a minute they gave me the wrong one till I thought about it some more and sized it up. 6 80mm fans would fit perfectly I think.

It's alright. All the more reason for me to put together an AC chiller.

Any idea how much antifreeze I should add to the mix? 10-15% seems a little thin considering this thing is solid aluminum.

[Delirious]

I would go with 30%-40% coolant or maybe even a 50%/50% mix.
Aluminum scares me

[bobkoure]

I believe some automotive cooling systems are mixed aluminum and copper/brass - so if you use an automotive coolant product you should be OK if you just follow the percentages on the coolant product. Zerex racing coolant, for instance, recommends a 10% mixture and that should be fine.
All that said, yeah, I'd tend away from aluminum radiators as well - but they might work so well that it's worth it to have to bother with an anti corrosion package. BillA says that turbulators are great - and I think these are the only way to get them...

[JWFokker]

Well, it's time to take the plunge and hook it up. I'll report back in a bit with the new load temps. Unless it's drastically worse, once it goes on, its staying on. Especially since I'm selling my 2-342 to someone on the Overclockers forums.

[JWFokker]

And the conclusion is:

With identical fans at the same speed (2 120mm Sanyo Denki's @ 5V) for both tests, temperatures were EXACTLY the same. After 20 minutes running Prime 95 and ATITool simulatneously (I also have an MCW50 in the loop), load temps never exceeded 40C. There was some waffling back and forth between 38C and 39C for a while but eventually reached a stable 40C in both instances. Coolant was reused (actually never drained, I just clipped the tubing) so the water/antifreeze mix was identical for both tests and ambient temp was between 21.2 - 21.4C for the duration of the test.

It is important to note that it is noticably quieter using the transmission cooler than using the 2-342, but when running two Sanyo Denki's at 5V the rest of the system needs to be very quiet to appreciate the effect.

On the upside it's lighter and not even half as thick and I can mount more fans to it if I want. All in all, a decent 'upgrade' provided it doesn't corrode the hell out of my waterblocks.

Differences in temperature may be only measurable in systems with a higher heat output than my own.

Athlon XP (Barton) 2500+ @ 2150mhz (215x10)
9600XT @ 597 core / 363 memory
512MB Corsair PC3200 (2.5-3-3-11)
Albatron KX18D Pro nforce2 mobo
Mag 3/MCW6000-A/MCW50


Edit: I suppose it should be noted that I have yet to build a shroud for either radiator. The fans are clipped to the radiators.

[Ruiner]

Any pics?
/

[JWFokker]

I'll try to borrow a digital camera from someone. You just want a pic of the tranny cooler? It's pretty sad actually, its just sitting outside my case with some fans up against it, like I had my heatercore. It's not bad for temps since it's sitting away from all the other components so it actually gets pure ambient air temps.

[Ruiner]

I guess pics of the whole setup, if not too much trouble.
What model cooler did you end up with? Linkage?

[JWFokker]

This one:

http://www.tsscoolers.com/Merchant2/...de=deraleplate

It looks much bigger than it really is. Roughly 50% wider than a 2-342 on the finned area.