Go Vote!

[pHaestus]

credit cards are all maxed out Joe; no more wars for the near future.

[Joe]

But when you have the treasury right accross the river... why not just print some more. Teh US dollar is worth close to toilet paper now anyway, so why not just go all out!

[Lothar5150]

Joe you can't be serious in your view of our country as evil...I have seen real evil and America is the light.

[Joe]

US IS the Evil Empire.

Not quite to the corrupt level as Putin in Russia but also not that far off. Hes learning fast.

[Wildfrogman]

Politics....have to love it...or not. But one thing is for sure...many in the USA and especially in the school system with power like teachers and professors push the idea that WE the Americans are to blame for others actions/attacks on us. I beleive the idea is to "appease the bad people so they dont hate us anymore". That just doesnt work...look at history just a bit and see the results. Then its the whole blame the Usa and hate ourselves deal...which really is absurd and makes the terrorists go lets attack so they hate themselves even more! One thing is for certain though, that there are many very tense and dangerous situations brewing. And if not dealt with swiftly and decisively its going to be really bad. Now, some say bush is perfect other say he's everything evil under the sun all combined into one person... . Well, I'm here to say Kerry would have been alot worse..sure Bush isnt exactly perfect but there are alot of things especially relating to defense where Bush is needed. Not trying to come across as but just informative and to the point
If you want to agree/disagree but not really add anything to the thread just PM me or chat on aol. Its alot cleaner and less likely to devolve into flames on the forum.

[peepingdan]

Originally Posted by Wildfrogman

I beleive the idea is to "appease the bad people so they dont hate us anymore". That just doesnt work...look at history just a bit and see the results.

Your proposed solution worked great for Israel, didn't it? They have total peace now. Yup. Uh-huh.

[Wildfrogman]

Well, just think about the interesting political can of worms we'd open talking Israel. Interesting yes but probably worthy of its own thread hmm?

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by Joe

US IS the Evil Empire.

Honestly, I am sorry you feel that way. How evil can it be, no one is going to arrest you for saying that. No fear of having your wife or children raped and murdered over it.

That type of thing really happened in Iraq under Saddam. Nevertheless, just the idea of something like that happing is so alien, that when I say it you don’t believe in your heart of hearts it actually happens in some corners of the world. To you and those like you it’s too abstract. You live too well and too sheltered.

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by Wildfrogman

Well, just think about the interesting political can of worms we'd open talking Israel. Interesting yes but probably worthy of its own thread hmm?

I think Israel found a solution to their problems

Link

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Joe you can't be serious in your view of our country as evil...I have seen real evil and America is the light.

In perspective, Joe has never been to N. Korea, Sudan, any of the Balkan republics, Qatar, Pakistan, Libya, Cambodia, Syria, Palestine, or Iran. I doubt he'd have the same view if he got to know the people in power over there.

Not to excuse the mistakes that the US govt makes, but it gets a whole lot worse in some other countries.

For my perspective, I've been to garden spots like Canada, Mexico, Tahiti, Australia, and New Zealand. But, I have friends and family members who have been to middle east, africa and such. My sister in law has been to middle east while doing Navy duty, and I've talked to several people who lived in (not just visited!) areas that are bordering the dangerous like S. Korea, Israel, and various parts of the middle east. I work with a couple of ex-Marines that did duty in Desert Storm.

So, if I have any trust in the people that I've talked to...

Bad here? Not in comparison.

[killernoodle]

Compared to Jamaica, we are definitely evil.

[Kobuchi]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

credit cards are all maxed out Joe; no more wars for the near future.

Originally Posted by Joe

But when you have the treasury right accross the river... why not just print some more. Teh US dollar is worth close to toilet paper now anyway, so why not just go all out!

Let's turn that around. OPEC prices oil in US dollars. Not yen not euro, just US dollars exclusively by special arrangement with the Saudi royals. Everyone who wants to buy oil accepts the unlimited printing of US dollars (debt) because the whole world uses that currency for the big commodity, oil. So long as foreigners trade in US dollars to buy oil, Americans may live in debt at least equal to that external oil trading plus dollar reserves amassed by every responsible government (uh, or something like that).

Now consider what should happen to a major oil producing regime that suddenly declares the US dollar "enemy currency" and accepts euros as payment , even exchanges the dollars in its oil-for-food account for euros, making an easy profit instantly? What if a chorus of murmurs rose up from other OPEC countries, and this causes the dollar to fuctuate wildly? What happened was sudden and swift. Iraq's oil ministry was the real target of regime change. The strategic enemy was the euro as contender to hegimon currency.

Euro will take dollar's place, I think. It's just a question of doing this nice and slow or in a panic.

North Korea can't touch the US economy. Venezuela can. Iran can. OPEC itself can. This has nothing to do with the supply of oil to America for consumption, or the price at the pump, but it really is all about oil.

[ymboc]

I don't know... is it just me or are people taking joe's comments a little too seriously?... here I thought he was just trying to vent some frustration regarding the situation.... <shrug>

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Honestly, I am sorry you feel that way. How evil can it be, no one is going to arrest you for saying that. No fear of having your wife or children raped and murdered over it.

That type of thing really happened in Iraq under Saddam. Nevertheless, just the idea of something like that happing is so alien, that when I say it you don’t believe in your heart of hearts it actually happens in some corners of the world. To you and those like you it’s too abstract. You live too well and too sheltered.

The corruption at the highest levels rivals that or Russia or other countries we will be declaring war on in the next 4 years.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Joe

The corruption at the highest levels rivals that or Russia or other countries we will be declaring war on in the next 4 years.

Damn Joe... Let's see some evidence of such? How about Russia, France, and other countries supplying weapons to Iraq illegally and ripping off the oil for food program?

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...3838-3146r.htm


Would anything like these mass graves happen here? http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...326869,00.html

I would like to see specific evidence of what this corruption is in detail and why we are evil, or more so than any other country in the world....

Or, maybe your just stirring the pot? :shrug:

[miladiou]

[quote=jaydee116]Damn Joe... Let's see some evidence of such? How about Russia, France, and other countries supplying weapons to Iraq illegally and ripping off the oil for food program?

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...3838-3146r.htm

isn't the CIA who claimed saddam had weapon of mass destruction???

[mastermind2004]

I think everyone can be wrong now and again. The CIA has been pretty accurate overall.

[deathBOB]

My East Asian teacher was a colonel in the army. He said ANY intelligence you recieve from any government agency you take with a grain of salt, they arent perfect. Its just the nature of what they do.

[jaydee]

[quote=miladiou]

Originally Posted by jaydee116

Damn Joe... Let's see some evidence of such? How about Russia, France, and other countries supplying weapons to Iraq illegally and ripping off the oil for food program?

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...3838-3146r.htm

isn't the CIA who claimed saddam had weapon of mass destruction???

Saddam did have WMD. The UN inspectors found and recorded them. Saddam was then instructed to destroy them and prove they were destroyed. Saddam failed to do so. Saddam will not say what happened to the unaccounted for WMD. They were there and there is proof of it. What happened to them is another story. Were they shipped out? Burried? Sold? Also ilegal wepons have been discovered in Iraq that france and Russia sold them! Anyway i digress. I don't come to ProCooling for political BS. I will leave this thread with this link: http://www.2la.org/syria/wmd.html

[Kobuchi]

Originally Posted by miladiou

isn't the CIA who claimed saddam had weapon of mass destruction???

That stuff about the oil-for-food corruption comes from of the Iraq Survey Group, not the CIA at large. The Iraq Survey Group's mandate, since it finally had to conclude Iraq secreted no weapons prohibited it at the time of invasion, has expanded to validate the necessity of invasion by any means. Americans really need reassurance, the ISG's job has always been to provide it.

Recent events show the ISG has absolutely no interest in surveying or overseeing weapons stored post-invasion at former military bases. I wonder if anybody there does, besides a few Iraqis of course.

The CIA, without naming organs, is a fine organisation in my opinion.

Here's the summary of ISG's work, before mission creep took over: Duelfer Disproves U.S. WMD Claims

@jaydee116. Weird link. If I were a ballistic missile, this is how I'd see the world. Why don't you just read your own government's latest (Oct. 6th 2004) report on the status of WMD during Iraq's Ba'ath regime, and end this fantasy. You were fooled. Now they don't need to fool you anymore about that, because you're determined to stay the course, and so on.

I'll leave this thread too, it devolves, but I'll drop the key to understanding the WMD puzzle: Google "Hussein Kamel"

[miladiou]

ok now i understand why bush is your president.
If you send dumd and dumber to vote, who are they going to elect ??? :shrug:

[Lothar5150]

Originally Posted by miladiou

ok now i understand why bush is your president.
If you send dumd and dumber to vote, who are they going to elect ??? :shrug:

If the European are complaining that is usually a good sign. Every time we make real progress toward freedom in the world, the Europeans call us dumb, hate our president and call us warmongers. I sight the last decade of the cold war. Nevertheless, we still drag you kicking and screaming into a better world.

[miladiou]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

If the European are complaining that is usually a good sign. Every time we make real progress toward freedom in the world, the Europeans call us dumb, hate our president and call us warmongers. I sight the last decade of the cold war. Nevertheless, we still drag you kicking and screaming into a better world.

exactly what i was saying...

[DryFire]

wow come one now reagan an the cold wari is very different from bush and iraq.

[Kobuchi]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

we still drag you kicking and screaming into a better world

Yeah, if you look closely at the pics the Germans are clearly being coerced by American agents to derail the cold war. The Germans didn't really want to wipe those foreign armies off the landscape.