So Lets talk websites, the cooling scene, etc...

[jaydee]

Sounds good LPorc and I agree. I think some of us need to have more tolerance for sure. I know I have worked on that a lot. I used to jump in on any thread and hammer the guy if it wasn't to MY liking. Now I just ignore the thread if I don't like it for the most part, unless of course it is just to stupid.

snowwie I think we are on the same page. I do see DIY less attractive and I see a lot less of it. A lot of the DIY stuff I see now days is more commercial driven as well.

The dry ice thing is intriguing. I personally don't like the idea of using it for benchmarks in competition but it sure is interesting to see what can be done with it. Might have been better when CPU were better overclockers though. I hope you do post a thread about it.

BB2K there is a lack of control circuits. My guess is however if something is developed here then 2,000 Chinese companies will have 15,000 different versions of it out before we could market it our selfs. This is why I suggested a closed forum. Invite respectable manufactures only and people that can actually add to the discussion.

[snowwie]

well quite honestly i don't really know what the hell i'm trying to say...i'm glad you understand some of it

as for benchmarking...there is no better measurement for PC cooling performance than PC performance

[jaydee]

Hopefully, sooner or later, Joe and pH will swing in here and comment on some of the stuff posted already.

One thing I will be focusing a lot of my attention on is testing. I have yet to decide if I want to do it for ProCooling or my own site though, or both. I am planning a water block round up that will be continuous. In other words I will be getting 5-6 blocks to start it with and then adding blocks as I get them. I intend to concentrate on water blocks but may get into kits as well as they are becoming more and more popular and better.

I am off untill tomorrow night...

[pHaestus]

jaydee: A few posts up you said "Then we just as well shut the site down. There is not nearly enough cooling stuff to keep a site active. One reason things have failed miserably around here lately IMO."

Then you say "One thing I will be focusing a lot of my attention on is testing. I have yet to decide if I want to do it for ProCooling or my own site though, or both. "

So there isn't enough cooling info to keep one site active so let's start 2? Look as far as I'm concerned if you want a more active (like my current) role in Procooling then that's fine. There's no question about it though; I need help with content. Now it sounds to me that you're going to do the sort of testing that I did in the past exactly. This means that I should be doing what? Some overlap is actually healthy but we need a plan on how to proceed I think.

I've been bugging Joe for a while about getting worklogs for you and a few others but it was more hassle than it was worth until the site gets rebuilt.

As far as expanding Procooling to deal with hardware and general computers stuff goes, that SOUNDS like a good idea. But what you'll get are well-written (as far as grammar goes) reviews from people not much more qualified than you are to do the reviewing. I don't think any of us here are really qualified to be giving recommendations on hardware purchases, so I don't normally do it. Plus if I don't have the time for cooling reviews then running suites of tests on 100 different video cards is even less likely.

What COULD happen with the weblogs for readers is that many different people post reviews of hardware as they get them and get the time to do it. We'll have to see how that evolves I guess.

[pHaestus]

Oh and for my 2c on things other than cooling we CAN do well here:

I think that there is some really good expertise in some of the things people DO with their watercooled PCs nowadays. Joe knows an assload about DV editing and PC-based digital media production. I have had a HTPC for quite some time and both Joe and I have pretty "networked" homes as far as the living room entertainment center goes. I'm sure that there are some people here that do 3d modeling CAD stuff and would provide some information. These are areas that was have expertise, we have interest, and where (in general) it can be hard to get up to speed on. Maybe some content on those topics would be interesting?

[Joe]

Yeh I was thinking about hardware reviews, and even cooling reviews. One thing hit me, I dont even have an A64 rig. everything I have is still Socket A! So yes as far as knowing and recommending purchases, I do think I am pretty out of date at this point hehe.

But for HTPC, silent computing, I have helped many friends recently get rigs setup and quiet. So those are the areas I am going to be focusing on once I get the site development work behind me. Some day I may even get me one of dem fancy A64's!

[pHaestus]

You also have a lot of expertise in networking/data backup and storage. I STILL find that to be a bit of a mystery

[Joe]

True, I can look at stuff for that. I mean the Snap server guys frequent these forums quite a bit in the networking area.

[pHaestus]

Well my point was that we have things other than cooling reviews that we are good at. But I'm not sure that PC hardware reviews are included in that list

[Joe]

unless you just want me to talk about my dream hardware configs No.

I am very key on "effective" purchases. Not buying something because you can, buying something because you needed it to do some thing and have it do that purpose well. Thats prolly the biggest mentality difference between myself and the mainstreem kid whos into the hardware scene. This is in much the same reason I am using Socket A's still. They are cheap, effective and get the job done.

[pHaestus]

I'm pretty much the same, though I still splurge on hardware from time to time.

[peepingdan]

Everything I know about watercooling I learned from Cathar. Keep him posting and keep his threads alive. He is a sparkling gem.
And you all are as well.
I've been sitting in in the backseat watching procooling for a few years now. Always reading and enjoying but rarely posting. I represent the average joe for sure. I have never had any formal training or any math higher than Algebra 2, but I have managed to craft my own block base and I still plan to finish it when I get the tools. I have been looking to site site to help me in my progress, but all these commercial block review simply do nothing but provide numbers that every other review website will have. The reviews... not so much.
This isn't Consumercooling, this is Procooling.

[bigben2k]

Originally Posted by jaydee

...
BB2K there is a lack of control circuits. My guess is however if something is developed here then 2,000 Chinese companies will have 15,000 different versions of it out before we could market it our selfs. This is why I suggested a closed forum. Invite respectable manufactures only and people that can actually add to the discussion.

I don't think that ProCooling wants any part in that, but there's nothing stopping us from opening such a forum.

You have pm.

[Joe]

ben is this going to follow up the awesome success the WBTA had?

[bigben2k]

Oh I have a lot to learn about putting up a website, but working for Yahoo! has helped a lot.

You know, the weird thing is that traffic is still increasing:
http://wbta.us/index.php?option=com_...picseen#msg410

Nothing astronomical, but a steady rise. :shrug:

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

jaydee: A few posts up you said "Then we just as well shut the site down. There is not nearly enough cooling stuff to keep a site active. One reason things have failed miserably around here lately IMO."

Then you say "One thing I will be focusing a lot of my attention on is testing. I have yet to decide if I want to do it for ProCooling or my own site though, or both. "

So there isn't enough cooling info to keep one site active so let's start 2?

Joe as expressed a desire to get ProCooling "rocking". You do water block testing for ProCooling so I see no reason why I should do it for ProCooling. Yet I am not going to give up my desire to test. This is why I would do it on my own site. My own site in which I am not concerned with activity as I feel there wouldn't be that much solely on cooling. So with that I will do it for my own site. Also I don't test specifically for other people. I test because I like to. Having results to show is just a product of the hobby.

Look as far as I'm concerned if you want a more active (like my current) role in Procooling then that's fine. There's no question about it though; I need help with content. Now it sounds to me that you're going to do the sort of testing that I did in the past exactly. This means that I should be doing what? Some overlap is actually healthy but we need a plan on how to proceed I think.

You already started testing for this site and have had a lot of donated money and equipment from the people that want to see YOU test. So you should be the guy that does it. The real question is what roll do you want ME to do for ProCooling?

I've been bugging Joe for a while about getting worklogs for you and a few others but it was more hassle than it was worth until the site gets rebuilt.

A work log is good. I have many projects in mind to do that I think many people would find interesting. Although I find a lack of interest in my projects lately.

As far as expanding Procooling to deal with hardware and general computers stuff goes, that SOUNDS like a good idea. But what you'll get are well-written (as far as grammar goes) reviews from people not much more qualified than you are to do the reviewing. I don't think any of us here are really qualified to be giving recommendations on hardware purchases, so I don't normally do it. Plus if I don't have the time for cooling reviews then running suites of tests on 100 different video cards is even less likely.

I understand that and ok. People might find it odd however we can recommend cooling for hardware we don't know enough about to review.

What COULD happen with the weblogs for readers is that many different people post reviews of hardware as they get them and get the time to do it. We'll have to see how that evolves I guess.

User reviews could be good. People might come here just for that in fact as it would be uncensored for the most part. Although there maybe more negative input than positive as I find most people with a gripe are more likely to speak up.

[ymboc]

User reviews are all well and good... but how would you maintain quality?... Call me a cynic but the world is full of "I just got X. X is awesome. Y sucks because I like X." people. One of Ed's editorials talked about this and how hardware purchases becoming an emotional experience for many these day (aside: much like how not buying hardware is becoming emotional to me as I am becoming exceedingly jealous of people with heaps more disposable income to spend on this stuff)

Long story short... how do you keep user reviews (relatively) objective? And for that matter how do you deal with 'sponsored' reviews?

bah. That all aside, I'm getting excited about procooling getting the ball rolling again - and I think the reader worklogs are an excellent idea. Cheers.

[Ls7corvete]

Originally Posted by ymboc

User reviews are all well and good... but how would you maintain quality?... Call me a cynic but the world is full of "I just got X. X is awesome. Y sucks because I like X." people. One of Ed's editorials talked about this and how hardware purchases becoming an emotional experience for many these day (aside: much like how not buying hardware is becoming emotional to me as I am becoming exceedingly jealous of people with heaps more disposable income to spend on this stuff)

Long story short... how do you keep user reviews (relatively) objective? And for that matter how do you deal with 'sponsored' reviews?

bah. That all aside, I'm getting excited about procooling getting the ball rolling again - and I think the reader worklogs are an excellent idea. Cheers.

Does the quality of the review really matter that much? If 9 out of 10 people are not satisfied with the product are you gonna want to buy it?

It doesnt always take a test bench resolution of .01c to tell if a product is quality or not.

"I just got X. X is awesome. Y sucks because I like X." people.

These people bother me too.

I do agree that there is alot of people with a viewpoint on hardware that I do not understand but if they bought the hardware, tested it and formed an opinion then they should be able to input constructivley to the forums. Most of what you mentioned above I believe comes from people commenting on what they have read and heard instead of witnessed first hand, I like to think of it as the "flock of sheep" phenomenone.

that all goes for cooling and hardware, but especially hardware.

[pHaestus]

ymboc:
The idea here is to have user reviews and articles be posted via a forum-like interface and tweaked by the author until they are satisfied. Then the Procooling staff (and extended helpers) will see that article and make suggestions/edits/ask for clarification. The author could decide "screw you guys I'm not changing anything" and that's that. Or the author could revise/accept/expand the article and it would then be posted on the site for all to see.

[pHaestus]

jaydee:
I REALLY want to avoid further fragmenting our community by having you post stuff on another site. What I was getting at is that we should have thought about how we're gonna proceed so that both of our sets of data are useful and complementary. I think your approach of making blocks with difft designs and comparing them is badass, and it would probably be a good thing to expand. Would that look like you testing lots of DIY blocks from yourself and others along with several commercial blocks as they are released while I focus on commercial products only? Perhaps that makes sense?

[ymboc]

ls7: noted, though I never meant to imply that it was necessary for the reviews to be that 'precise'. I guess it was a bit of venting combined with concern as to how to go about keeping (relatively unmoderated) forum based reviews from degenerating in a big stirred pot of shi- err, non-usefullness.

ph: I didn't realise that the publishing process was going to be that structured - much like the guest articles in the past then? Sounds much better than the unstructured approach I was envisioning.

Do you suppose it would be possible for us 'normal' members could peek at the reviews as they're going through the process? (Perhaps at the discression of the author/editor?) It might encourage the potential authors to post since their work would be immediately viewable at least in one form or another (even if not 'officially published'). Plus it would keep the rest of us happy - I remember feeling intensely curious (and somewhat left out) whenever there were in-progress article discussions in the front-page 'pro/forums' block we able to see existed but weren't able to view.

[pHaestus]

Well it is certainly possible to set things up so that an article that is rated above a certain point by forum readers becomes auto-posted. The concern would be that if you have 100 editors that things quickly become impossible to properly revise and post. We'll think on this I guess.

[Joe]

Yeh, stuff like that adds to something that is already really quite complex. I had to start over last night and re-think how I was going to attack all this, and I am getting some ideas wrote down, but I had to start over on how I was going to handle legacy articles and the new article posting action.

I would have to say the new site is atleast 3 weeks off since I need to learn how to do some stuff I dont know how to do currently But once the sites up everything should be online in one move then. You;ve all waited 6 years another 3 weeks to a month isnt going to hurt ya

[pHaestus]

As long as new content doesnt get added to WOW then I'm cool with 3 weeks from now. I'll post any wb test data in the forums instead for the time being

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

jaydee:
I REALLY want to avoid further fragmenting our community by having you post stuff on another site. What I was getting at is that we should have thought about how we're gonna proceed so that both of our sets of data are useful and complementary. I think your approach of making blocks with difft designs and comparing them is badass, and it would probably be a good thing to expand. Would that look like you testing lots of DIY blocks from yourself and others along with several commercial blocks as they are released while I focus on commercial products only? Perhaps that makes sense?

That sounds good to me. That way we can keep our own results in check to. I will probably end up redirecting my sites here once I get the work log.

2-3 weeks Joe? Sounds good to me. I need that time to move, re-setup the test bench and redo my die simulator anyway. You guys might want to round up the people you want for staff and start some discussion on what you want them to do before the site opens up. That way they know what to do and are ready when it happens.