A challenge! - Page 2

Etacovda · 05-16-2006, 10:04 PM

Note that core is about the surface area of a BIPII, but obviously denser. The AQ50z could be changed for another pump, ddc would fit there fine, so would the 1048 with some playing. The 120 ran at around 1200rpm and the outwash cooled the motherboard. The core was too dense for it to run slower, unfortunately. Everything is grommet mounted, the fan is controlled via speedfan to ramp up under serious load. The many compromises were due to budget reasons (this whole set up cost me about 70USD)

Neat enough?

An external box will always be a better solution noise wise, though, and that'll be neater than this again.

Note that i dont watercool my box any more, i fail to see the point in watercooling a socket A rig when quiet air does the same job, as i dont require the high clocks at the moment.

pHaestus · 05-17-2006, 02:35 AM

My experience with the AQ50Z is that it's substantially louder than a typical fan used on a quiet heatsink.

The real problem is the pumps (and water gurgling) it seems to me. You guys NEVER get the rush of bubbles making noise through the loop? Or the hum of the pump vibrating against something?

Cathar · 05-17-2006, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

My experience with the AQ50Z is that it's substantially louder than a typical fan used on a quiet heatsink.

My experience too. AQ50Z's are not quiet, not even remotely.

Quote:

The real problem is the pumps (and water gurgling) it seems to me. You guys NEVER get the rush of bubbles making noise through the loop? Or the hum of the pump vibrating against something?

The rush of bubbles noise I get only if the loop wasn't bled right.

The hum of the pump vibrating against something IS the real tricky one to solve. I use low-density foam to solve this problem.

Dgephri · 05-17-2006, 11:36 AM

I got bubble whooshing at power on for a week or so (slowest bleed yet, but I am used to CSP 750, that DDC5 moves TONS of water comparatively).

That has settled out.

I think I accidentally put my DDC5 in a really good location behind my drives, on the lowest deck, mounted on velcro, and pump up to the CPU. My cross flow 120mm on lowest setting (these Maddog Whisper fan) but put into this (Antec LED Fan) surround to get an LED whipser combo.

Even at 1200 rpm or so, they are louder than any part of the watercooling loop IMO.

TerraMex · 05-17-2006, 12:41 PM

... and while we're at it :
http://www.teschke.de/cms/index.php?...tid=263&page=0

Brians256 · 05-17-2006, 05:32 PM

Now, that is a silent system.

TerraMex · 05-17-2006, 06:49 PM

besides, didn't we have this thread ?
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=7442

Etacovda · 05-17-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

My experience with the AQ50Z is that it's substantially louder than a typical fan used on a quiet heatsink.

The real problem is the pumps (and water gurgling) it seems to me. You guys NEVER get the rush of bubbles making noise through the loop? Or the hum of the pump vibrating against something?

Yep, it wasnt quiet - hence getting rid of it. I was told it was quiet, alas, definitely not. As i said, the entire set up was cheap - if i was to keep it i would have used a 1048, but realised that i didnt need it for socket A, so i got rid of it.

Regarding the bubbling, as said only when not bled correctly. Pump vibration, thats what grommets, foam and decoupling is for...

My post was mainly to show how neat a loop can be, considering thats not an overly small pump, the heatercore is pretty large (180mm x 190mm), and its half inch. Use 120mm varient sized radiator (ie BIP, BIP2, PA, whatever), DDC and 3/8ths and it gets neater again... Use an external set up and you can get much smaller and quieter. External really is the way to go for a quiet set up, engineering a quiet set up inside a case can be a right pain in the arse.

phide · 05-19-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

The hum of the pump vibrating against something IS the real tricky one to solve. I use low-density foam to solve this problem.

Or go a step further and build a small box, isolate the pump as much as possible within it and float it. Hell, maybe float the pump's box within another box and stick the kit-and-kaboodle on neoprene. That would pretty much take care of the great majority of direct vibration and any direct noise of the pump.

Without the money to cook up my block prototypes, I think this is going to be my next project. It'd sure be nice to get my D5s to stop rattling no matter what the circumstances.

Brians256 · 05-19-2006, 01:38 PM

You are going to have a really hard time making the D5 quiet if it is like mine. The pump produces a whine that transmits very well through water. In order to really get rid of the noise, you need to change the motor controller board in it to use modified square waves. I tried many different methods and found it a lot easier to just buy a DDC.

phide · 05-19-2006, 04:44 PM

By floating, I'm referring to using flexible stand-offs, in the same fashion as recording studios and movie theatres float floors and ceilings. In a typical studio, at least the floor and ceiling have no direct contact with the foundation, either by "hanging" (suspending a ceiling with a series of cables and wires) or using Z-shaped suspending metal brackets (in the case of the floor). Instead of a Z-bracket, or other type of device, however, I could use small rubber cylinders. The box that contains the pump, probably comprised of no less than 1/2" maple or other suitable wood, and sealed as completely as reasonably possible, would have no rigid contact with the outer box, which would be just as substancially thick. This all-encompassing box could then be floated in a similar fashion from the case. The question is whether or not the motor will have any issues with the additional heat typically dissipated by airflow. But since the coolant is the main avenue of heat dissipation, I imagine the casing will just come to a sort of equilbrium, and the heat typically expended by the casing would just get dumped entirely into the coolant.

The D5's whine is fairly high frequency which is actually ideal in this situation: the higher the frequency, the easier it is to attenuate without something as excessive as multiple layers of sound absorptive material. Depending on how well one can seal it within the inner box, the total attenuation could probably be as much as 30dB.

Or, yeah, I could just drop my D5s on eBay and get a couple DDCs with Radiical tops, but where's the fun in that?

Brians256 · 05-19-2006, 06:41 PM

Want a couple of D5's?

Ls7corvete · 05-19-2006, 10:00 PM

The eheims are submersible. Put them underwater and listen.

DrCR · 05-27-2006, 10:05 PM

I am always so glad to see quiet computing being discussed here. I remember an era when an InfoTech coworker of mine used to brag that you could hear his PC on the other end of the dorm...

Seriously, to the dude how said the Vantec Stealths were good enough, the Stealths are anything but stealthy. Cathar is right about the Nexus fans, their a soild choice. As a bit of a SPCR geek I must say there are quieter choices, but the Nexus you know will be a good sample every time since they're basically cherry-picked, slightly tweeked Yate Loons. A Nexus @ 5v is basically the defacto-standard at SPCR, that is it self should say something about the fan.

How quiet is the Iwaki MD-20Z compared to the present quiet standard? I purchased one a while back for an external rad box I never did build; now I'm curious if I should even bother. Hum, maybe I could use it in a remote setup. I did buy it after all though to get the best OC possible, not to get the absolutely quietest cooling solution possible.

It would be difficult to get SPCR-level quietness out of a watercooled, in-case setup. You could do it, buy why? The only reason I see for going with water is an OCed system (or an Intel Netbust lol). An OCed system and SPCR-spec quiet? Oooh, now that would be impressive. A reserator on steroids + a PA160 should do the trick.

DrCR

Brians256 · 05-29-2006, 04:04 PM

Silent computing is my current goal.

jaydee · 05-29-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brians256

Silent computing is my current goal.

I think air is were it is at though. This beast looks interesting: http://www.overclockers.com/articles1329/

That coupled with one of those fans Cathar and DrCr mentioned maybe be a interesting combo.

Not to mention reliability, no maintenance (well maybe a little dusting now and then) and air flow over other electric parts in the case.

Brians256 · 05-30-2006, 01:20 AM

Probably, Jaydee. I like the fun of water, but air just seems to be, as you say, where it's at.

phide · 05-30-2006, 03:32 PM

Well, I wouldn't be one to ask about the Nexus fans, but I just got a box of ten Yate Loons, and they're all equally quiet. I have four of them in my machine now, with three Evercools (rated ~75CFM/35dB, but they sound a bit closer to 40dB), and I can't note any change in overall volume when I dial them down or simply shut them off, even when my Evercools are at ~7V. Either they're astonishingly quiet (which they are) or the Evercools are totally overpowering.

I'll buy a D5 off of you, Brian, if you're going to dump them.

DrCR · 06-05-2006, 04:06 AM

Hey Phide.

Well Yate Loons vary and you may have a bad set. . That's what is nice about recommending the Nexus to quiet noobs, you _know_ it's going to be a good sample.

But even if they are good samples, there are _way_ too many fans in your rig to think it's aproaching anything near quiet (I'm mean actually quiet, not just quiet compared to an old Delta screamer fan setup or something). A machine consisting of three (CPU, PSU, Extake) good YateLoons @ 5v is a good start in the right direction. Your evercools may ramp down fairly well though @ 3v.

A quiet cooling tip: The location of the airflow is what matters, not the CFM.

You're heading in the right direction Phide, keep working at it and I'm sure you'll hit paydirt.

Yeah, air is where it's at, but you're absolutely right Brian, its not really any fun. Water starts to shine through when you want more than just quiet. Like quiet + monster OC. That said, maybe both of those might not be mutally exclusive on air in the near future with the emphasis of low power/watt ratio nowadays.

phide · 06-05-2006, 02:16 PM

I think the point I was trying to get across was that I thought the Yate Loons are extremely quiet even at 12V. I don't believe any of them are poor samples, unless they're all poor. I'm running my Evercools on my HE120.3 at ~8V at the moment, and that results in about the "right" noise level that doesn't aggrivate me.

Though I haven't messed around with them much, I'd imagine the Yate Loons at 5V approach the ambient noise level of a typical home. With how much airflow? 15 CFM? Even with PA rads, that's fairly low. That's the territory where hard drive noise becomes the most obtrusive part of the overall sound of a rig. The pump is also probably going to poke through with the fans being that quiet - even the old ~11W DDCs.

The Evercools might do fairly at 3V, but as it stands, I need to get air through the HE, and that's no easy task. Airflow through the rad is fairly important, since that's really the only source of intake air flow that would be distributed over the other motherboard components.

Right now, the location of the airflow couldn't be better. Sucking in through the rad from the front and generally exhausting at the back (three YLs and PSU fans) with another YL in front sucking in.

pdf27 · 06-11-2006, 07:32 AM

I posted photos of my silent watercooled system a while back if anyone's interested - see http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=12419 .
The conclusion I came to was that if you take out the fun/geek factor from it, the major reason for silent watercooling was to deal with the graphics card rather than the CPU (assuming that for whatever reason a passively cooled graphics card doesn't have the required performance).
Accoustically it's well up to SPCR standards IMHO - the only audible noise is flow noise from air passing through the radiator, there is no audible pump noise, fan ticking, gurgling, etc. whatsoever.

Shoebox9 · 07-23-2006, 08:21 AM

Guys, it is easy to beat air if you are happy with large passive rads (ie external).

The extreme is 2 passive 120.3's bolted to the outsides of you case, or a copper car radiator (which also acts as a res) sitting on legs next to it. Submerge/encase pump in water or concrete, depending on the pump.

Next use a quality fanless PSU in an inverted m/b case (ie P180), a notebook h/d, and the only fan/s will be for m/b air flow. (An mCubed fan controller keeps them very slow/quite but still running.)

Alternatively put your dual Xeon with 9 h/ds through the wall into the next room. I have a problem with nose and tried a few things, but these were the two solutions that worked for me.

Cheers,
shoebox9

DrCR · 07-23-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phide

I think the point I was trying to get across was that I thought the Yate Loons are extremely quiet even at 12V.

Well, they aren't really. The lowest speed D12SL-12 YL is ~1350rpm @ 12v. About 800-850rpm on a good 12cm is what is considered extrememly quiet.

Your Evercools may not be the best quietly choice for your rad. If I recall correctly they aren't the best choice for restrictive environments.

Not a bad build you've got there pdf27! Looks like a first rate rig.

I'm with you Shoebox. Right now I'm planning on using a 50gal drum and concrete+foam enclosed MD-20Z located off under a stairwell to give me the OCing I crave, but also spcr spec quietness I require.

That said, I'm currently just using a Scythe Mine on my 3500+ (though a Ninja Plus would have been the best choice)...

DrCR

___________

Uncle_Dave · 08-13-2007, 07:10 PM

Just for fun Why the intrest in NO noise? Just to say that you can do it? So far I have not seen anything about removing the heat Source, such as the Power Supply?

If you are going to use a Fan, I know that it less efficient to draw the cooling air through a filter, but the filter will clog, but you can see it, and clean it.

Don't mind me, but I am more interested in reliability. I do not like to see things crash. I find that when I put the cover on the box, it crashes.

The wife has cats. The cat hairs do a number.

Noise? I drive a Diesel. I get worried real quick if I can't hear that engine. I fact I have never been able to hear the Turbine.

The voltages are not very high in a PC. How would it be to use some nonconducting fluid to cool the PC by filling the case with a light oil?

How about an A/C unit just to cool the PC, and put the PC behind a glass door so we do not waste any energy cooling the operator?

How about points for working disconnected from the Power Grid?

DrCR · 08-13-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote: