SWIFTECH's new waterblock - Page 2

Brad · 02-04-2002, 04:57 PM

OPP, I know all about you hehe, despite the fact I don't like icrontic, you and macci are among the most interesting people out there for what you do, etc.

The new swiftech with 1/2" barbs, what is the inside of that like? just an open chamber, or is it more advanced?

OPPAINTER · 02-04-2002, 05:27 PM

Brad,

No clue what the inside will look like, but it will have those big 1/2 barbs

OPP

RickCain · 02-05-2002, 01:39 AM

Hey OPP... Is this a picture of the inside of your case?

http://www.aaclan.op4ctf.com/files/p.../whoisthis.JPG
http://www.aaclan.op4ctf.com/files/p...whoisthis2.JPG

my new stuff
http://www.aaclan.op4ctf.com/files/p...ideocooler.JPG

I got these off the [H]ardForum about six months ago and have been saving them for reference on my first watercooled rig. Well I just got my order from DD and am ready to get this bad johnny working. If this is your rig, were did you get those valves and fittings?

Thanks!

OPPAINTER · 02-05-2002, 05:26 PM

RickCain

Not my case my friend, no clue about his valves and fittings.

OPP

Brad · 02-05-2002, 06:06 PM

that is turbokeu's case

Kevin · 02-05-2002, 07:04 PM

Guys, listen to Gabe when he says flow is rather overrated. Chip also did testing on this (well he said he did) a few months ago, and they both say that often times extensive flow can decrease performance, and that there is a sweet spot to be found.
-Kevin

RickCain · 02-07-2002, 05:36 PM

Hmmm..

I went to the Switech website and part number MCW371-B-1/2 is avialable in 2 weeks.

Looks like those 1/2 barbs are right around the corner!

pHaestus · 02-07-2002, 06:01 PM

Yea Kevin no doubt. There are two factors at play: getting the baseplate temp as close to the water temp as possible by increasing flow rate (more is better to the point that you just can't do any better) and then keeping the water in the radiator as long as possible so that you maximize the heat transfer to air. So one part of the system likes more flow and one likes less. I personally prefer to use less restrictive tubing and fittings and a smaller pump though rather than have to use a big pump to force water through little pipes. Personal preference I guess. My opinion is that you can always tune your flow downwards by adding in a ball valve but if your flow is too little then you are forced to upgrade your pump or move to bigger tubing and fittings.

Brad · 02-07-2002, 07:17 PM

which is why I always say if you have the room, run two radiators in parallel, the water goes through the block at full speed and at half speed through the radiators.

Kevin · 02-07-2002, 07:33 PM

Brad, running two radiators in a series yields a flow going through two different radiators. Running them in parallel yields half the flow, half the water, going through one radiator. The effect is more or less the same (assuming they are the same radiators).
-Kevin

futRtrubL · 02-07-2002, 09:22 PM

Except that in parallel flow resistance is decreased as aposed to increasing in serial (compared to a single rad).
There are other slight differences (serial allows lower coolant temps in low heat systems, while parallel gives greater efficiency for high heat systems), but for most of us there'l be nothing noticeable.

Edward

Jonas · 02-07-2002, 10:58 PM

said it before and i'll say it again. i not only do not reccomend THIS swiftech block, i can't reccomend them as a company either. their products are overpriced, under produced, and in the 2 dealings i had with them i got screwed. i would probably buy a block from CHIP before i sent a single dime thier way.

deeznuts · 02-08-2002, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin
Guys, listen to Gabe when he says flow is rather overrated. Chip also did testing on this (well he said he did) a few months ago, and they both say that often times extensive flow can decrease performance, and that there is a sweet spot to be found.
-Kevin

while this is true for some, i don't feel it is true for systems using heatercores. reason being, from the extensive testing done over at overclockers by BillA (nobody can fault him for his testing procedures), the base temp of block decreased with more flow. great, everyone knows that already. well if you look at the chart for the heatercore heat dissipation, you notice there is barely any drop at all in the dissipation as flow is increased. for the other radiators yeah there is a sweet spot, but for the core there is barely a drop, and after the drop there is still enough capacity for a simple system. couple this with the benefit of higher flow for the block, and i say open the floodgates.

Brad · 02-08-2002, 05:03 AM

Yeah, the big momma is basically flat throughout the graph, so is the serck, but they all showed a peak at some point, which is dependant on the rad.

I still think run two rads in parallel, that way your overall system flow can be double what it was before, to keep your rads at best efficiency.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/bptempvflow.gif

this shows that the waterblock loves high flow rates, while http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/dissvsflow.gif shows that at 2gpm, none of the rad's are near their peak.

but if we ran the water at 2gpm, and rads in parallel, we'd get 1gpm per minute, which is at the peak of the Serck radiator.

Kevin · 02-08-2002, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by futRtrubL
but for most of us there'l be nothing noticeable.

Yup yup yup

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonas
i would probably buy a block from CHIP before i sent a single dime thier way.

WOAH! Let's not go so far!!!!

-Kev

deeznuts · 02-08-2002, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
Yeah, the big momma is basically flat throughout the graph, so is the serck, but they all showed a peak at some point, which is dependant on the rad.

I still think run two rads in parallel, that way your overall system flow can be double what it was before, to keep your rads at best efficiency.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/bptempvflow.gif

this shows that the waterblock loves high flow rates, while http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/dissvsflow.gif shows that at 2gpm, none of the rad's are near their peak.

but if we ran the water at 2gpm, and rads in parallel, we'd get 1gpm per minute, which is at the peak of the Serck radiator.

i don't like that graph of all the curves of the radiators. i think the units are too small so that any little drop or gain is really big. check out this page http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/index05.asp where the curves of the big momma all look really flat. in any event the drop in dissipation is really minute, probably barely registering on the THermistor. but the benefit to the block is pretty great as you have shown.

deeznuts · 02-08-2002, 05:03 PM

hey LiquidCool, since you are here, any chance you can tell me when you will have the leviathan shrouds ready for sale? its early February, and i really want one as i am lazy to make my own. i actually made one, but it looks like isht. assuming that the make of that core is from 1975, it should fit fine right?

please let me know.

Pyrotechnic · 02-08-2002, 10:39 PM

i think a simple ball vavle in the system to tweak the flow rates will find the sweet spot.

dacooltech · 02-09-2002, 06:01 AM

"Gabe has finally decided to design a Block with 1/2" I/d barbs. It's threads like this that has convinced him."

OPP I'm glad that fwding this thread to Gabe worked

... Let's see how the new MCW462-Us perform with 1/2" ID fittings... I hope the inside will be 1/2", too

I'm going to e-mail you soon as I promised...
I also want to see the details of your system... It sounded pretty impressive on the phone with 6 x 80W pelts on the waterchiller etc.... will be great if you can post some pics to the forum, I'm sure others wanna see the great performing beast as well...

On Swiftech blocks... Guys I started watercooling with Swiftech WBs and I think they're great looking and good performing blocks... I think Gabe is trying to do his best to serve the watercoolers' needs...
on the other hand I must admit that had some issues with the fittings as well. as I use silicone hosing, I either cut 3.5cm long copper pipe as tube inserts for the swivel elbows, or entirely changed them with standart fittings (lemme tell you, it's a diffucult task

)... Anyways thanks to Gabe, it's great news that there're some improvements in that area as well...

Also I have another news for the watercooling community...
I'm opening up a new online store for you guys... My web site is almost finished and will publish it next week or so... I want to offer all favorite H2O cooling stuff at one place for reasonable prices... basically I'm planning to carry all the popular items... I really appreciate it if you can help me out in this by e-mailing me your favorite items (hardware, acessories, basically everything that you want me carry) at dacooltech@cooltechnica.com... also any new ideas are wellcome... promise, I'll do my best to serve your needs...

To Joe and all procooling staff: You guys rock

I also want to discuss with you how we can make things better for the watercooling community...

Cheers,

Bruce

Pyrotechnic · 02-09-2002, 09:55 AM

if they dont change the fittings i'll do it myself

dacooltech · 02-09-2002, 03:55 PM

"if they dont change the fittings i'll do it myself "
Pyrotechnic, yes you can change the fittings yourself, but that doesn't change a thing because the diameter of the inside hole will remain 1/4" NPT...
so I think Gabe is going to redesign the block, not sure though...

Bruce

Pyrotechnic · 02-09-2002, 05:21 PM

whoever said i couldn't drill them out ?:shrug:

dacooltech · 02-09-2002, 05:33 PM

hehe yeah sure

... I never tried it myself though...

post the results, so we'll see how it went...

Pyrotechnic · 02-09-2002, 06:20 PM

the inlet looks like you could drill it, but i dont know about the outlet

Brad · 02-10-2002, 06:09 AM

dacool, if you want to carry everything, do this:

maze1c
maze2
a couple of cheap blocks

1x 120mm fan sized heater core
2x 120mm fan sized heater core
Black Ice's

danner pumps
eheim pumps

T's, Y', 90 degree sections, silicone tubing, clamps, misc fittings, resivoirs, fan shrouds for your rad's, etc

02-04-2002, 04:57 PM	#26
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	OPP, I know all about you hehe, despite the fact I don't like icrontic, you and macci are among the most interesting people out there for what you do, etc. The new swiftech with 1/2" barbs, what is the inside of that like? just an open chamber, or is it more advanced? __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-04-2002, 05:27 PM	#27
OPPAINTER Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: SoCal Posts: 3	Brad, No clue what the inside will look like, but it will have those big 1/2 barbs OPP __________________ Abit KR7-Raid, 5D Bios, XP-2000 1663@2044, 170x12, 1.94v. Swiftech MCW462 Waterblock/220w Pelt-----480w pelt chiller, -15c to 16c max, 1x256 Corsair 2400 @ Cas2, 2 x Barracuda IVs Raid-0, ATI Radeon 8500

02-05-2002, 05:26 PM	#29
OPPAINTER Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: SoCal Posts: 3	RickCain Not my case my friend, no clue about his valves and fittings. OPP __________________ Abit KR7-Raid, 5D Bios, XP-2000 1663@2044, 170x12, 1.94v. Swiftech MCW462 Waterblock/220w Pelt-----480w pelt chiller, -15c to 16c max, 1x256 Corsair 2400 @ Cas2, 2 x Barracuda IVs Raid-0, ATI Radeon 8500 Last edited by OPPAINTER; 02-05-2002 at 07:37 PM.

02-05-2002, 06:06 PM	#30
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	that is turbokeu's case __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-05-2002, 07:04 PM	#31
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Guys, listen to Gabe when he says flow is rather overrated. Chip also did testing on this (well he said he did) a few months ago, and they both say that often times extensive flow can decrease performance, and that there is a sweet spot to be found. -Kevin __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

02-05-2002, 01:39 AM	#28
RickCain Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 110	Hey OPP... Is this a picture of the inside of your case? http://www.aaclan.op4ctf.com/files/p.../whoisthis.JPG http://www.aaclan.op4ctf.com/files/p...whoisthis2.JPG my new stuff http://www.aaclan.op4ctf.com/files/p...ideocooler.JPG I got these off the [H]ardForum about six months ago and have been saving them for reference on my first watercooled rig. Well I just got my order from DD and am ready to get this bad johnny working. If this is your rig, were did you get those valves and fittings? Thanks!

02-07-2002, 05:36 PM	#32
RickCain Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 110	Hmmm.. I went to the Switech website and part number MCW371-B-1/2 is avialable in 2 weeks. Looks like those 1/2 barbs are right around the corner!

02-07-2002, 06:01 PM	#33
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Yea Kevin no doubt. There are two factors at play: getting the baseplate temp as close to the water temp as possible by increasing flow rate (more is better to the point that you just can't do any better) and then keeping the water in the radiator as long as possible so that you maximize the heat transfer to air. So one part of the system likes more flow and one likes less. I personally prefer to use less restrictive tubing and fittings and a smaller pump though rather than have to use a big pump to force water through little pipes. Personal preference I guess. My opinion is that you can always tune your flow downwards by adding in a ball valve but if your flow is too little then you are forced to upgrade your pump or move to bigger tubing and fittings.

02-07-2002, 07:17 PM	#34
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	which is why I always say if you have the room, run two radiators in parallel, the water goes through the block at full speed and at half speed through the radiators. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-07-2002, 07:33 PM	#35
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Brad, running two radiators in a series yields a flow going through two different radiators. Running them in parallel yields half the flow, half the water, going through one radiator. The effect is more or less the same (assuming they are the same radiators). -Kevin __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

02-07-2002, 09:22 PM	#36
futRtrubL Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Posts: 204	Except that in parallel flow resistance is decreased as aposed to increasing in serial (compared to a single rad). There are other slight differences (serial allows lower coolant temps in low heat systems, while parallel gives greater efficiency for high heat systems), but for most of us there'l be nothing noticeable. Edward

02-07-2002, 10:58 PM	#37
Jonas Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Jackson, MI Posts: 94	said it before and i'll say it again. i not only do not reccomend THIS swiftech block, i can't reccomend them as a company either. their products are overpriced, under produced, and in the 2 dealings i had with them i got screwed. i would probably buy a block from CHIP before i sent a single dime thier way. __________________ "...as soon as you're born you start dying; so you might as well have a good time..."

02-08-2002, 05:03 AM	#39
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	Yeah, the big momma is basically flat throughout the graph, so is the serck, but they all showed a peak at some point, which is dependant on the rad. I still think run two rads in parallel, that way your overall system flow can be double what it was before, to keep your rads at best efficiency. http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/bptempvflow.gif this shows that the waterblock loves high flow rates, while http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/dissvsflow.gif shows that at 2gpm, none of the rad's are near their peak. but if we ran the water at 2gpm, and rads in parallel, we'd get 1gpm per minute, which is at the peak of the Serck radiator. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-08-2002, 05:03 PM	#42
deeznuts Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: san diego Posts: 142	hey LiquidCool, since you are here, any chance you can tell me when you will have the leviathan shrouds ready for sale? its early February, and i really want one as i am lazy to make my own. i actually made one, but it looks like isht. assuming that the make of that core is from 1975, it should fit fine right? please let me know.

02-08-2002, 10:39 PM	#43
Pyrotechnic Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 240	i think a simple ball vavle in the system to tweak the flow rates will find the sweet spot.

02-09-2002, 06:01 AM	#44
dacooltech Pro/Vendor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 267	"Gabe has finally decided to design a Block with 1/2" I/d barbs. It's threads like this that has convinced him." OPP I'm glad that fwding this thread to Gabe worked ... Let's see how the new MCW462-Us perform with 1/2" ID fittings... I hope the inside will be 1/2", too I'm going to e-mail you soon as I promised... I also want to see the details of your system... It sounded pretty impressive on the phone with 6 x 80W pelts on the waterchiller etc.... will be great if you can post some pics to the forum, I'm sure others wanna see the great performing beast as well... On Swiftech blocks... Guys I started watercooling with Swiftech WBs and I think they're great looking and good performing blocks... I think Gabe is trying to do his best to serve the watercoolers' needs... on the other hand I must admit that had some issues with the fittings as well. as I use silicone hosing, I either cut 3.5cm long copper pipe as tube inserts for the swivel elbows, or entirely changed them with standart fittings (lemme tell you, it's a diffucult task )... Anyways thanks to Gabe, it's great news that there're some improvements in that area as well... Also I have another news for the watercooling community... I'm opening up a new online store for you guys... My web site is almost finished and will publish it next week or so... I want to offer all favorite H2O cooling stuff at one place for reasonable prices... basically I'm planning to carry all the popular items... I really appreciate it if you can help me out in this by e-mailing me your favorite items (hardware, acessories, basically everything that you want me carry) at dacooltech@cooltechnica.com... also any new ideas are wellcome... promise, I'll do my best to serve your needs... To Joe and all procooling staff: You guys rock I also want to discuss with you how we can make things better for the watercooling community... Cheers, Bruce Last edited by dacooltech; 02-09-2002 at 05:35 PM.

02-09-2002, 09:55 AM	#45
Pyrotechnic Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 240	if they dont change the fittings i'll do it myself

02-09-2002, 03:55 PM	#46
dacooltech Pro/Vendor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 267	"if they dont change the fittings i'll do it myself " Pyrotechnic, yes you can change the fittings yourself, but that doesn't change a thing because the diameter of the inside hole will remain 1/4" NPT... so I think Gabe is going to redesign the block, not sure though... Bruce Last edited by dacooltech; 02-09-2002 at 03:58 PM.

02-09-2002, 05:21 PM	#47
Pyrotechnic Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 240	whoever said i couldn't drill them out ?:shrug:

02-09-2002, 05:33 PM	#48
dacooltech Pro/Vendor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 267	hehe yeah sure... I never tried it myself though... post the results, so we'll see how it went...

02-09-2002, 06:20 PM	#49
Pyrotechnic Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 240	the inlet looks like you could drill it, but i dont know about the outlet

02-10-2002, 06:09 AM	#50
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	dacool, if you want to carry everything, do this: maze1c maze2 a couple of cheap blocks 1x 120mm fan sized heater core 2x 120mm fan sized heater core Black Ice's danner pumps eheim pumps T's, Y', 90 degree sections, silicone tubing, clamps, misc fittings, resivoirs, fan shrouds for your rad's, etc __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

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