Closed Loop vs. Reservoir Systems - Page 2

mashie · 03-08-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim

I see your X but no "T"?

Nothing like a smart ars right!

Jim

That link is working fine, check your connection/settings.

EMC2 · 03-08-2002, 07:40 PM

That or raise your radiator so its inlet/outlet is the highest point in the system

Then the 2nd T can go in the 90 degree bend on the copper pipe that exits the rad and keeps you from having to add another 90 degree bend in your plumbing (with their inherent flow reduction).

Cyco-Dude · 03-08-2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mashie

That link is working fine, check your connection/settings.

i also do not see the image. ive cleared my cache and reloaded; nothing.

Jim · 03-08-2002, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
jim, it would be simle to fix your current setup. the hose from the WB out goes down to your T, left is air trap and right to your pump. disconnect it right there (take that small piece off of your pump). put your air trap inside your case (becasue thats where it'll end up). now rotate the WB outlet hose so instead of going down, it goes to the right (or towards the front of your case). it'll get to the T, and go down to your pump, and up will be the air trap. you will have to put a longer piece of hose for the air trap. i can draw you a diagram if you want...

Cyco-Dude-

I follow most of it, but I think the diagram would help quite a bit.
thanks
Jim

Cyco-Dude · 03-08-2002, 10:13 PM

if you cant see it, go here. its the last pic.

mashie · 03-09-2002, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude

i also do not see the image. ive cleared my cache and reloaded; nothing.

Strange, seems like procooling has problem to do direct linking to pics since it works from plenty of other forums...

See if you can see the pic here.

Otherwise use the real page. Number six from the top.

(You can't miss it)

Jim · 03-09-2002, 07:27 AM

Cyco-Dude-

I can't see any of the images, but this morning and rested, I fully follow your description.

Might tear it down today and redo the routes. Also wonder if I should pull the block off and see how that looks as far as the contact and the AS 3 is concerned. I still feel this time I may have put just a little too much AS 3 on it.

Thanks,

Jim

Cyco-Dude · 03-09-2002, 02:10 PM

here is the link to the page:
http://cycozcrap.homestead.com/
copy and paste it into your browser.

Jim · 03-09-2002, 05:07 PM

Cyco-Dude-

Link worked, thanks for all your effort. Tomorrow is the day I am going to redo this setup.
Jim

richone · 03-09-2002, 11:04 PM

An in-line air trap/resevoir is the way to go. But what I don't understand is why you need a fill and bleed tube. In my setup, the air trap/res works well with out the extra Tees.

Link Here

or pic:

melvyn · 03-10-2002, 12:03 AM

You don't need fill and bleed tubes, but it could be something to try. Would it make filling a system easier?? I have no idea. My though is that if you add liquid to the lowest point in the circuit, it might purge air from the system quicker. When I get the last couple of parts for my system I'll tell all.

Brad · 03-10-2002, 12:47 AM

I'd have though it wouldn't matter too much with a well designed air trap like richones

Heavy_Equipment · 03-10-2002, 05:01 PM

Melvyn,

how do you plan on adding water at your lowest point????

Assuming you are talking closed loop.

Do the words "Old Faithful" or "geyser" fit into this equation???

EMC2 · 03-10-2002, 05:10 PM

Heavy - go back to his earlier post in this thread for a nice clear pic of what he is talking about

Heavy_Equipment · 03-10-2002, 07:13 PM

I had a similar setup with my first watercooler.
difference being, my setup was basically upside down to his diagram.

Unless I'm missing the point completely...he's looking to have basically a 1/2"diameter x 2' tall, inline res.

I just see him having more of a problem, with the syphon effect.

EMC2 · 03-10-2002, 10:17 PM

His thinking is to uncap the bleed tube(which is at the high point and even with his fill tube) and let the air come out from there. Then he puts the water in through his fill tube, which feeds into the lowest point.

Think of it this way, ever tried to put liquid into the single small opening of a bottle? It's a biatch, because the air in the bottle has to escape from the same opening the liquid is going into.

Maybe an even better example is a gas can. If you don't open the vent cap, the gas comes out slowly because the air has to go back in to the same opening the gas is coming out of. Open the vent cap and the gas pours out, while the air rushes in through the vent. His idea is the same thing, only in reverse (liquid going in, air coming out), with the liquid "pushing" into the system at the lowest point and the air going out at the highest.

Fixittt · 03-10-2002, 10:20 PM

WEll I can solve the AIR problem with filling. Its called a FUNNEL!!!!!!! LOL, that is what I use to fill my system. Just stick a funnel into the 1/2 in hose and fill away.

Also if you open a hose at the lowest part of the system, then gravity will cause the water to rush out.

melvyn · 03-10-2002, 10:24 PM

Heavy:
My idea (untested right now) is simply to fill the system through the fill tube without having to start the pump. You'd have to be careful not to introduce loops in the pipework where air can gather, but in theory you could simply pour coolant into the fill tube and watch it rise up both sides of the loop at the same time. You'd continue to fill until you're about an inch from the top of the fill and bleed tubes, then cap them both off to prevent water going everywhere when the pump's activated. It might work, it might not. But until someone (me!!) tries, we won't know.

After all, the entire water cooling industry has been built up by people trying different things... thinking outside the box.

Here's another question for y'all... when does a closed loop with air trap cooling loop become the same as a reservoir system?

Fixittt · 03-10-2002, 10:28 PM

It is the same. Always has been. But the sterio type for a res, is to directly feed the pump. When you think about it, anywhere you put a body of water in a looped system will be a res. As it will sypple water to the system as needed.

VotTak · 03-11-2002, 01:06 AM

To richone:
I like that your "T" is done really neat... I'm looking through the sites and cannot find those fittings , tee's etc... you use while you built your "T" reservour. Could you point me to the right direction?

Heavy_Equipment · 03-11-2002, 06:30 PM

Melvyn,
I guess I was feeling a little pessimistic, but you're right if it works the way you are hoping, then it's good to try it out.

Come to think of it, I can/have put myself in your shoes...anytime somebody new hears about my system. "You have water...IN your computer? blah blah blah..." lol. So I won't knock you for trying something out.

Jim · 03-11-2002, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VotTak
To richone:
I like that your "T" is done really neat... I'm looking through the sites and cannot find those fittings , tee's etc... you use while you built your "T" reservour. Could you point me to the right direction?

Here is a very thorough tutorial on the subject:

Go here for air trap tutorial

Jim

richone · 03-11-2002, 08:12 PM

Start with Clear PVC found here . The tutorial above should help with the rest.

VotTak · 03-11-2002, 08:49 PM

Wow...!!!!
That's a big thank you very much!!!!!

Cyph3r · 03-11-2002, 11:33 PM

www.usplastic.com also has the clear pvc... not sure how it compares pricewise to mcmaster... hrm... looks like its more exp for T's... maybe some of the other parts may be cheaper

Cyph3r

03-08-2002, 10:13 PM	#30
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	if you cant see it, go here. its the last pic. Last edited by Cyco-Dude; 03-08-2002 at 10:15 PM.

03-09-2002, 11:04 PM	#35
richone Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 33	An in-line air trap/resevoir is the way to go. But what I don't understand is why you need a fill and bleed tube. In my setup, the air trap/res works well with out the extra Tees. Link Here or pic: __________________ --------------------------- Yes, Yes I Am Watercooled. Live Temps Last edited by richone; 03-10-2002 at 09:59 AM.

03-10-2002, 12:47 AM	#37
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I'd have though it wouldn't matter too much with a well designed air trap like richones __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-10-2002, 10:20 PM	#42
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	WEll I can solve the AIR problem with filling. Its called a FUNNEL!!!!!!! LOL, that is what I use to fill my system. Just stick a funnel into the 1/2 in hose and fill away. Also if you open a hose at the lowest part of the system, then gravity will cause the water to rush out. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

03-10-2002, 10:28 PM	#44
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	It is the same. Always has been. But the sterio type for a res, is to directly feed the pump. When you think about it, anywhere you put a body of water in a looped system will be a res. As it will sypple water to the system as needed. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

03-08-2002, 07:40 PM	#27
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	That or raise your radiator so its inlet/outlet is the highest point in the system Then the 2nd T can go in the 90 degree bend on the copper pipe that exits the rad and keeps you from having to add another 90 degree bend in your plumbing (with their inherent flow reduction).

03-09-2002, 07:27 AM	#32
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Cyco-Dude- I can't see any of the images, but this morning and rested, I fully follow your description. Might tear it down today and redo the routes. Also wonder if I should pull the block off and see how that looks as far as the contact and the AS 3 is concerned. I still feel this time I may have put just a little too much AS 3 on it. Thanks, Jim

03-09-2002, 02:10 PM	#33
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	here is the link to the page: http://cycozcrap.homestead.com/ copy and paste it into your browser.

03-09-2002, 05:07 PM	#34
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Cyco-Dude- Link worked, thanks for all your effort. Tomorrow is the day I am going to redo this setup. Jim

03-10-2002, 12:03 AM	#36
melvyn Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 69	You don't need fill and bleed tubes, but it could be something to try. Would it make filling a system easier?? I have no idea. My though is that if you add liquid to the lowest point in the circuit, it might purge air from the system quicker. When I get the last couple of parts for my system I'll tell all.

03-10-2002, 05:01 PM	#38
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Melvyn, how do you plan on adding water at your lowest point???? Assuming you are talking closed loop. Do the words "Old Faithful" or "geyser" fit into this equation???

03-10-2002, 05:10 PM	#39
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Heavy - go back to his earlier post in this thread for a nice clear pic of what he is talking about

03-10-2002, 07:13 PM	#40
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	I had a similar setup with my first watercooler. difference being, my setup was basically upside down to his diagram. Unless I'm missing the point completely...he's looking to have basically a 1/2"diameter x 2' tall, inline res. I just see him having more of a problem, with the syphon effect.

03-10-2002, 10:17 PM	#41
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	His thinking is to uncap the bleed tube(which is at the high point and even with his fill tube) and let the air come out from there. Then he puts the water in through his fill tube, which feeds into the lowest point. Think of it this way, ever tried to put liquid into the single small opening of a bottle? It's a biatch, because the air in the bottle has to escape from the same opening the liquid is going into. Maybe an even better example is a gas can. If you don't open the vent cap, the gas comes out slowly because the air has to go back in to the same opening the gas is coming out of. Open the vent cap and the gas pours out, while the air rushes in through the vent. His idea is the same thing, only in reverse (liquid going in, air coming out), with the liquid "pushing" into the system at the lowest point and the air going out at the highest.

03-10-2002, 10:24 PM	#43
melvyn Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 69	Heavy: My idea (untested right now) is simply to fill the system through the fill tube without having to start the pump. You'd have to be careful not to introduce loops in the pipework where air can gather, but in theory you could simply pour coolant into the fill tube and watch it rise up both sides of the loop at the same time. You'd continue to fill until you're about an inch from the top of the fill and bleed tubes, then cap them both off to prevent water going everywhere when the pump's activated. It might work, it might not. But until someone (me!!) tries, we won't know. After all, the entire water cooling industry has been built up by people trying different things... thinking outside the box. Here's another question for y'all... when does a closed loop with air trap cooling loop become the same as a reservoir system?

03-11-2002, 01:06 AM	#45
VotTak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brooklyn/NY Posts: 44	To richone: I like that your "T" is done really neat... I'm looking through the sites and cannot find those fittings , tee's etc... you use while you built your "T" reservour. Could you point me to the right direction?

03-11-2002, 06:30 PM	#46
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Melvyn, I guess I was feeling a little pessimistic, but you're right if it works the way you are hoping, then it's good to try it out. Come to think of it, I can/have put myself in your shoes...anytime somebody new hears about my system. "You have water...IN your computer? blah blah blah..." lol. So I won't knock you for trying something out.

03-11-2002, 08:12 PM	#48
richone Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 33	Start with Clear PVC found here . The tutorial above should help with the rest. __________________ --------------------------- Yes, Yes I Am Watercooled. Live Temps

03-11-2002, 08:49 PM	#49
VotTak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brooklyn/NY Posts: 44	Wow...!!!! That's a big thank you very much!!!!!

03-11-2002, 11:33 PM	#50
Cyph3r Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Lafayette, IN Posts: 45	www.usplastic.com also has the clear pvc... not sure how it compares pricewise to mcmaster... hrm... looks like its more exp for T's... maybe some of the other parts may be cheaper Cyph3r

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