Triple turbulent spiral channels - Page 2

pHaestus · 04-02-2002, 09:56 AM

Quote:

As far as the "trade secret" part of it, in a case like this, all somebody would have to do is get a block and they could obtain all the info you listed.

That isn't always true (lots of the German blocks have rather nonstandard design that makes calculating these properties difficult). Determining baseplate thickness also gets tricky.

I'll grant you that by and large we can look at blocks and extract the inof we need. But why should I have to go to all that trouble? There is more to a block than a picture of its channels after all. Manufacturers should explain their blocks a little more.

Psychotic · 04-02-2002, 12:04 PM

I would guess that the main reason we don't see spec sheets is because a large percentage of the blocks produced aren't made my large manufacturers, but rather folks who are working out of their garage like jaydee or fixittt. If the little guys post specs, it's too easy for jerkoffs like OCH to rip off their design. The world of waterblock design is a dog-eat-dog world.

Brad · 04-02-2002, 12:57 PM

och rip off anyone at anytime they want to anyway

the base sizes are the same, one has 3 channels, one has 1 channel, one is open

EMC2 · 04-02-2002, 05:44 PM

PH - leaving aside the discussion on photographic analysis capabilities :: you missed (and I didn't explicity state) the main point of what I said - I can't see a good reason NOT to put the information out, since it can be ascertained fairly easily. Basically - I was reinforcing your comment that the information should be put out by the wb makers

(at least the items of weight, outside dimensions, base plate thickness, flow rate at a specified pressure, mounting method, and mounting pressures).

pHaestus · 04-04-2002, 01:06 AM

ah I see. You know now that I think of it the situation with radiators is even more dire: it is difficult to tell exactly how a radiator will perform from a picture. Some oil coolers are rather poor performers, but some do quite well. Some heatercores work substantially better than others also (edge soldered ones). A picture really isn't suitable; need internal volume, surface area, some standard testing. I have been talking to a German block maker (http://watercool.de/), and they are really pushing for a standard test procedure and methodology whereby performance curves could be generated that all makers would use and that were comparable between manufacturers (and between hardware sites). Sounds like an absolute nightmare to me (I doubt you could get US hardware sites to all agree on the weight of a waterblock much less its performance). Maybe we will see some spillover of this concept to the US though.

ablaze · 04-04-2002, 07:27 AM

some pics of the Cyclone5! (thanks Cathar!

)

and lastly, my fav:

Brad · 04-04-2002, 12:30 PM

I like it even more now. Notice how the inner channel starts shortly after the outer channel, possibly an attempt by silverprop to even out the flow.

Although the milling looks a little rough, this is probably good thing, trying to remove the boundary layer of water

jaydee · 04-04-2002, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad

Although the milling looks a little rough, this is probably good thing, trying to remove the boundary layer of water

Kinda looks molded?

Psychotic · 04-04-2002, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116

Kinda looks molded?

I would have to agree with you jaydee.

UpAllNight · 04-04-2002, 09:20 PM

well this maybe one subjet that i may know something about...i have been in the tool and die trade for 25 years and cnc milling for at least 15..started out using a 10mhz machine..lol...any way i think this block could be cast to at first look...but by the finish on the bottom i would doubt it...u could never get such a finish out of a cast part..what i think u are seeing is the bad mill that they had trying to get such a small endmill down so deep....then i believe they sandblasted the top and the groves...that my thoughts on the whole thing...for what its worth...hum gives me some good ideals though....could really do some funky stuff with a wire edm machine...hummm

jaydee · 04-04-2002, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UpAllNight
well this maybe one subjet that i may know something about...i have been in the tool and die trade for 25 years and cnc milling for at least 15..started out using a 10mhz machine..lol...any way i think this block could be cast to at first look...but by the finish on the bottom i would doubt it...u could never get such a finish out of a cast part..what i think u are seeing is the bad mill that they had trying to get such a small endmill down so deep....then i believe they sandblasted the top and the groves...that my thoughts on the whole thing...for what its worth...hum gives me some good ideals though....could really do some funky stuff with a wire edm machine...hummm

I think you maybe right. It does polish up pretty good to be cast. Even pressure cast for that matter. I also did spot some milling marks and also where the start of the first pass it. So yes I would agree.

What is a wire edm machine?

Brad · 04-05-2002, 03:30 AM

I'm not sure about it being cast or not, but the finish on the base definately isn't sanded out, it could be milled then polished though

max007007 · 04-05-2002, 06:41 AM

very interested in this one also.
most likely will get this.

UpAllNight · 04-05-2002, 12:55 PM

What is a wire edm machine?

__________________

Electronic discharge Machine = EDM

u can take brass wire .01 thousands in dia. and burn through hardend steel of all types about anykind of material that conducts elec. of course its computer controled so that means any thing u can draw on cad u can burn....is a 4 axis machine so u can some nifity 3d work...wish i had a digtial camara

jaydee · 04-05-2002, 01:06 PM

I just looked it up on the net and am very impressed. That setup is damn cool. http://www.jordanmachine.com/wire_edm.html

Quote:

Originally posted by UpAllNight
What is a wire edm machine?

__________________

Electronic discharge Machine = EDM

u can take brass wire .01 thousands in dia. and burn through hardend steel of all types about anykind of material that conducts elec. of course its computer controled so that means any thing u can draw on cad u can burn....is a 4 axis machine so u can some nifity 3d work...wish i had a digtial camara

UpAllNight · 04-05-2002, 01:22 PM

yes it is we have 4 of them...just think of holding a peice of thread between each hand and moving on hand while the other is still..thats what i mean by 4 axis...the top head can move seperate from the bottom

ondaedg · 04-06-2002, 10:48 AM

upallnight, do you have any examples of work that this machine has produced?

jaydee · 04-06-2002, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ondaedg
upallnight, do you have any examples of work that this machine has produced?

click this link and it will show some lettering in 3D http://www.jordanmachine.com/wire_edm.html

Brad · 04-06-2002, 03:09 PM

woah, thats seriously cool. now we just need to get someone to make us a block based on those principles

jaydee · 04-06-2002, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
woah, thats seriously cool. now we just need to get someone to make us a block based on those principles

I imagine that thing isn't cheap!!!

UpAllNight · 04-09-2002, 01:16 PM

yeah i got a whole table full of examples but no pics of it...but ill work on it beings i know someone is interested in it...and yes it is kinda high in price about 250,000

Sherlock · 04-10-2002, 12:32 AM

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade

, but I'm not so sure about getting any "superior" performance out of this one. If you look closely you'll see that the water enters and exits the block very quickly even though it's extensively channeled. Reminds me somewhat of the silverbase WB over @ Becooling in how much it's channeled.

http://becooling.safeshopper.com/6/95.htm?896

Also, I don't see very much turbulence to aid in the heat transfer with these kind of conditions. Looks cool though

. What Brad said about them trying to even out the flow is interesting, I think he's right about that.

04-02-2002, 12:04 PM	#27
Psychotic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: currently in hiding after a recent escape from the psychiatric ward of a local hospital Posts: 69	I would guess that the main reason we don't see spec sheets is because a large percentage of the blocks produced aren't made my large manufacturers, but rather folks who are working out of their garage like jaydee or fixittt. If the little guys post specs, it's too easy for jerkoffs like OCH to rip off their design. The world of waterblock design is a dog-eat-dog world. __________________ I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.

04-02-2002, 12:57 PM	#28
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	och rip off anyone at anytime they want to anyway the base sizes are the same, one has 3 channels, one has 1 channel, one is open __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-02-2002, 05:44 PM	#29
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	PH - leaving aside the discussion on photographic analysis capabilities :: you missed (and I didn't explicity state) the main point of what I said - I can't see a good reason NOT to put the information out, since it can be ascertained fairly easily. Basically - I was reinforcing your comment that the information should be put out by the wb makers (at least the items of weight, outside dimensions, base plate thickness, flow rate at a specified pressure, mounting method, and mounting pressures). Last edited by EMC2; 04-02-2002 at 05:47 PM.

04-04-2002, 12:30 PM	#32
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I like it even more now. Notice how the inner channel starts shortly after the outer channel, possibly an attempt by silverprop to even out the flow. Although the milling looks a little rough, this is probably good thing, trying to remove the boundary layer of water __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-04-2002, 09:20 PM	#35
UpAllNight Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: HILLBILLY LAND Posts: 159	well this maybe one subjet that i may know something about...i have been in the tool and die trade for 25 years and cnc milling for at least 15..started out using a 10mhz machine..lol...any way i think this block could be cast to at first look...but by the finish on the bottom i would doubt it...u could never get such a finish out of a cast part..what i think u are seeing is the bad mill that they had trying to get such a small endmill down so deep....then i believe they sandblasted the top and the groves...that my thoughts on the whole thing...for what its worth...hum gives me some good ideals though....could really do some funky stuff with a wire edm machine...hummm __________________ XP1800 @172x10.5 Maze 3..Ehiem 1250..Chevette Rad 1 120mm panaflo @7v 1" shroud All fits nicely inside my case ambient(74 F) 2.0v Core(33.5) Loaded idle(31.5c) Enermax 431 watt Antec 1030B Gainward Geforce 3 TI200 241/548 Sony CDRW Creative 52x CD Soundblaster Live

04-04-2002, 01:06 AM	#30
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	ah I see. You know now that I think of it the situation with radiators is even more dire: it is difficult to tell exactly how a radiator will perform from a picture. Some oil coolers are rather poor performers, but some do quite well. Some heatercores work substantially better than others also (edge soldered ones). A picture really isn't suitable; need internal volume, surface area, some standard testing. I have been talking to a German block maker (http://watercool.de/), and they are really pushing for a standard test procedure and methodology whereby performance curves could be generated that all makers would use and that were comparable between manufacturers (and between hardware sites). Sounds like an absolute nightmare to me (I doubt you could get US hardware sites to all agree on the weight of a waterblock much less its performance). Maybe we will see some spillover of this concept to the US though.

04-04-2002, 07:27 AM	#31
ablaze Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Singapore! Posts: 124	some pics of the Cyclone5! (thanks Cathar! ) and lastly, my fav:

04-05-2002, 03:30 AM	#37
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I'm not sure about it being cast or not, but the finish on the base definately isn't sanded out, it could be milled then polished though __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-05-2002, 06:41 AM	#38
max007007 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 61	very interested in this one also. most likely will get this. __________________ My Specs http://homex.coolconnect.com/member3...ages/Specs.jpg

04-05-2002, 12:55 PM	#39
UpAllNight Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: HILLBILLY LAND Posts: 159	What is a wire edm machine? __________________ Electronic discharge Machine = EDM u can take brass wire .01 thousands in dia. and burn through hardend steel of all types about anykind of material that conducts elec. of course its computer controled so that means any thing u can draw on cad u can burn....is a 4 axis machine so u can some nifity 3d work...wish i had a digtial camara __________________ XP1800 @172x10.5 Maze 3..Ehiem 1250..Chevette Rad 1 120mm panaflo @7v 1" shroud All fits nicely inside my case ambient(74 F) 2.0v Core(33.5) Loaded idle(31.5c) Enermax 431 watt Antec 1030B Gainward Geforce 3 TI200 241/548 Sony CDRW Creative 52x CD Soundblaster Live

04-05-2002, 01:22 PM	#41
UpAllNight Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: HILLBILLY LAND Posts: 159	yes it is we have 4 of them...just think of holding a peice of thread between each hand and moving on hand while the other is still..thats what i mean by 4 axis...the top head can move seperate from the bottom __________________ XP1800 @172x10.5 Maze 3..Ehiem 1250..Chevette Rad 1 120mm panaflo @7v 1" shroud All fits nicely inside my case ambient(74 F) 2.0v Core(33.5) Loaded idle(31.5c) Enermax 431 watt Antec 1030B Gainward Geforce 3 TI200 241/548 Sony CDRW Creative 52x CD Soundblaster Live

04-06-2002, 10:48 AM	#42
ondaedg Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 130	upallnight, do you have any examples of work that this machine has produced? __________________ ondaedg@procooling.com

04-06-2002, 03:09 PM	#44
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	woah, thats seriously cool. now we just need to get someone to make us a block based on those principles __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-09-2002, 01:16 PM	#46
UpAllNight Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: HILLBILLY LAND Posts: 159	yeah i got a whole table full of examples but no pics of it...but ill work on it beings i know someone is interested in it...and yes it is kinda high in price about 250,000 __________________ XP1800 @172x10.5 Maze 3..Ehiem 1250..Chevette Rad 1 120mm panaflo @7v 1" shroud All fits nicely inside my case ambient(74 F) 2.0v Core(33.5) Loaded idle(31.5c) Enermax 431 watt Antec 1030B Gainward Geforce 3 TI200 241/548 Sony CDRW Creative 52x CD Soundblaster Live

04-10-2002, 12:32 AM	#47
Sherlock Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 31	Sorry to rain on everyone's parade , but I'm not so sure about getting any "superior" performance out of this one. If you look closely you'll see that the water enters and exits the block very quickly even though it's extensively channeled. Reminds me somewhat of the silverbase WB over @ Becooling in how much it's channeled. http://becooling.safeshopper.com/6/95.htm?896 Also, I don't see very much turbulence to aid in the heat transfer with these kind of conditions. Looks cool though . What Brad said about them trying to even out the flow is interesting, I think he's right about that. __________________ A-XP1.75ghz/8k3a+/475W Turbo-cool PSU/60GBATA100 -512Corsair xms2400 w/AS3+spreders -R9700pro(volt-modded-water cooled) -16xdvd/HP 24x20x40x cdrw -Sherlock customized 'Hurricane' mid-tower case w/blowhole+baybus (case & ambient temps equal) -Z4(orig.)waterblock/ 380gphpump/ custom plexyglass resevoir/ Aquacoil2 radiator(L.pres.drp)/1/2"fittings/ -Purple Ice/Rounded IDE cables- All fit VERY nicely in a mid-tower case with great air flow Last edited by Sherlock; 04-10-2002 at 12:41 AM.

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