A Call to any engineers out there! We need a real retention Mech! - Page 2

gmat · 08-10-2001, 04:33 AM

Hmm forget longer motherboard standoffs, because your mobo would not match those port holes.
I think there's enough room for a backplate + a screwhead length. Currently on my DD Maze2 setup i've got 1 screwhead and 1 bolt together on the back and it fits with no problem. So dont worry about backplate cutting ..

Arcturius · 08-10-2001, 08:20 AM

On the other hand, cutting a hole in the backplate makes it a hell of a lot easier to inspect the back of your board, to make sure everything's OK.

Or, if you're not running peltiers, you could put a small HSF there to take off what heat comes down through the pins or gets to the board by convection.

Or easy access to another temp probe for the really thorough among us... (or a place to stick your finger if for some reason you don't have another temp monitoring device

)

iceheart · 08-10-2001, 11:02 AM

I think I have a solution... After looking at some Pre-Zif HSF's I think I can design a non crush risk retention mech, that fits both socket lugs and AMD/P4 Holes. Stay put for some sketches.

iceheart · 08-10-2001, 11:05 AM

Oh yeah did I mention it works with both WB's and HSF's?

gmat · 08-13-2001, 06:19 AM

Please post em in a new topic this one is fairly long now

xRated · 08-13-2001, 10:21 AM

what about this design?

first you install 4 push pins, sorta like the ones on the blue orb, but bigger into the 4 socket motherboard holes. then a metal plate is placed on the 4 push pins, but the push pins will have springs on them. then the metal plate is bolted on to the push pins, and as the bolts are tightened, they will make the metal plate push down against the springs and will provide clampin pressure on the waterblock.

a little confusing, but hope you get the general idea.

mkosem · 08-13-2001, 03:21 PM

check out the design of the swiftech mc-370, can that type of clamp be adapted for waterblock usage? it's very good.

--Matt

mkosem · 08-15-2001, 02:07 PM

I'm gonna have to break out the old erector set for this one, it's served me well in the past for projects like this!!

--MAtt

imagex · 11-14-2001, 09:37 PM

i still made mine first

Miss_Man · 11-15-2001, 03:21 AM

A compact made to size G-clamp with spring would be the best I feel. Side with spring goes thru centre hose barb. Just screw till secure. Works great with pelts too.

Miss_Man · 11-15-2001, 03:39 AM

Look heres my design http://thehand78.tripod.com/clamp.htm

Butcher · 11-15-2001, 05:04 AM

I wouldn't have thought a spring could have sufficient force to clamp a TEC properly

Miss_Man · 11-15-2001, 05:49 AM

The clamping force for TEC is from the screws on the coldplate, not from the spring.

Nemes1S · 11-15-2001, 05:59 PM

As Matt says, Swiftech mechanism is very good, and I've seen WBs using it, like this O4P Magnum (the one I will use in my future watercooling):

By the way, it's my first post here, so hello everyone...

This is a great website with an excellent forum, I've learnt a lot here, and hope will continue doing it

I also invite you to visit the best spanish OCing website, for all of you who knows spanish language: www.ngasis.com

Regards from Spain!!

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Nemes1S ]

shroomer · 11-16-2001, 04:31 AM

I really like the design on the redesigned maze1 with the spring... All I'd need to make it perfect would be to make the height (tension) adjustable and chang it so that it used all 3 cleats. Best I can think to do it would be a screw on each side. The great thing about this is that it would work on just about any type of socket (I have no experience with P4, and don't want to).

gmat · 11-16-2001, 10:35 AM

Nemes1s this clamp is not what we want for bigger/heavier blocks.
First it requires the block to be sized accordingly. It's not the case with huge blocks like DD Maze2.
Next it relies on socket lugs. Mounting stuff on socket lugs is awkward and dangerous, to say the least, with such heavy pieces of metal.
Really the way to go is through those 4 AMD mobo holes, with 4 metal rods, springs, a backplate and a "frontplate" with a spring-tensioned lever. Did you say "sandwich" ?

Nemes1S · 11-16-2001, 05:51 PM

Surefoot, I think it's a more than good enough system. It's true that it needs the block to be as big as the socket, but thats no bad at all. Many blocks are so huge only for being able to attach them using the AMD holes, not because the perform better being bigger. For example, in every test I've seen Maze 2 performs only marginally better, if any better at all, that Maze 1 (much smaller).

And about the danger of breaking the socket slugs, I think it's not a problem if the 3 slugs on each side are used. Keep in mind that a lot of heavy copper heatsinks use socket slugs, even only one on each side on most cases. And heatsinks, being much taller than a waterblock, apply a lot more of torque on the socket slugs. Any WB is short enough for not applying that kind of pressure on the socket.

In my opinion, using bolts, springs and nuts isn't neccesary in most circunstances, but hey, I'm not saying it's not a better mounting system...

Like you say here, just my 2 cents...

Jonas · 11-16-2001, 08:13 PM

check this out. this block is very similar to the spiral, but its mounting system uses spring steel, and the socket lugs. it will apply a nice even pressure that is the same everytime...

i contacted them to see if i could get one of these blocks for a little comparison article i'm writing for my application...would be interesting i think to see the difference between the spir@l, the maze2, and this wj-200+.

08-10-2001, 08:20 AM	#27
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	On the other hand, cutting a hole in the backplate makes it a hell of a lot easier to inspect the back of your board, to make sure everything's OK. Or, if you're not running peltiers, you could put a small HSF there to take off what heat comes down through the pins or gets to the board by convection. Or easy access to another temp probe for the really thorough among us... (or a place to stick your finger if for some reason you don't have another temp monitoring device ) __________________ Everything aircooled (I honestly don't know why you guys let me stay a member...) Always folding: WXP Pro: KD7R + Palomino 1800+ W2K3: 4x P3 Xeon 500 512KB (4 clients) Linux boxes: none Had to put them to use doing real work.

08-10-2001, 11:02 AM	#28
iceheart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Yonder Posts: 318	I think I have a solution... After looking at some Pre-Zif HSF's I think I can design a non crush risk retention mech, that fits both socket lugs and AMD/P4 Holes. Stay put for some sketches. __________________ "If the majority is smarter than you, does that make everyone else a geek, or does it make you retarded?" - pHaestus

08-10-2001, 11:05 AM	#29
iceheart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Yonder Posts: 318	Oh yeah did I mention it works with both WB's and HSF's? __________________ "If the majority is smarter than you, does that make everyone else a geek, or does it make you retarded?" - pHaestus

08-13-2001, 10:21 AM	#31
xRated Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2001 Location: The Moon Posts: 17	what about this design? first you install 4 push pins, sorta like the ones on the blue orb, but bigger into the 4 socket motherboard holes. then a metal plate is placed on the 4 push pins, but the push pins will have springs on them. then the metal plate is bolted on to the push pins, and as the bolts are tightened, they will make the metal plate push down against the springs and will provide clampin pressure on the waterblock. a little confusing, but hope you get the general idea. __________________ 1.2Ghz AXIA @ 1.4Ghz 1.85V Abit KT7A 256 PC 133

08-15-2001, 02:07 PM	#33
mkosem Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: here Posts: 494	I'm gonna have to break out the old erector set for this one, it's served me well in the past for projects like this!! --MAtt __________________ If you can't cool it, blow it up!! http://www.mattkosem.com

08-10-2001, 04:33 AM	#26
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Hmm forget longer motherboard standoffs, because your mobo would not match those port holes. I think there's enough room for a backplate + a screwhead length. Currently on my DD Maze2 setup i've got 1 screwhead and 1 bolt together on the back and it fits with no problem. So dont worry about backplate cutting ..

08-13-2001, 06:19 AM	#30
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Please post em in a new topic this one is fairly long now

08-13-2001, 03:21 PM	#32
mkosem Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: here Posts: 494	check out the design of the swiftech mc-370, can that type of clamp be adapted for waterblock usage? it's very good. --Matt

11-14-2001, 09:37 PM	#34
imagex Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: south FL Posts: 220	i still made mine first __________________ Overkill'n Overclock'n Hybrid Mobile Solutions

11-15-2001, 03:21 AM	#35
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	A compact made to size G-clamp with spring would be the best I feel. Side with spring goes thru centre hose barb. Just screw till secure. Works great with pelts too.

11-15-2001, 03:39 AM	#36
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	Look heres my design http://thehand78.tripod.com/clamp.htm

11-15-2001, 05:04 AM	#37
Butcher Thermophile Join Date: May 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,064	I wouldn't have thought a spring could have sufficient force to clamp a TEC properly __________________ Once upon a time, in a land far far away...

11-15-2001, 05:49 AM	#38
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	The clamping force for TEC is from the screws on the coldplate, not from the spring.

11-15-2001, 05:59 PM	#39
Nemes1S Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 7	As Matt says, Swiftech mechanism is very good, and I've seen WBs using it, like this O4P Magnum (the one I will use in my future watercooling): By the way, it's my first post here, so hello everyone... This is a great website with an excellent forum, I've learnt a lot here, and hope will continue doing it I also invite you to visit the best spanish OCing website, for all of you who knows spanish language: www.ngasis.com Regards from Spain!! [ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Nemes1S ]

11-16-2001, 04:31 AM	#40
shroomer Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 15	I really like the design on the redesigned maze1 with the spring... All I'd need to make it perfect would be to make the height (tension) adjustable and chang it so that it used all 3 cleats. Best I can think to do it would be a screw on each side. The great thing about this is that it would work on just about any type of socket (I have no experience with P4, and don't want to).

11-16-2001, 10:35 AM	#41
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Nemes1s this clamp is not what we want for bigger/heavier blocks. First it requires the block to be sized accordingly. It's not the case with huge blocks like DD Maze2. Next it relies on socket lugs. Mounting stuff on socket lugs is awkward and dangerous, to say the least, with such heavy pieces of metal. Really the way to go is through those 4 AMD mobo holes, with 4 metal rods, springs, a backplate and a "frontplate" with a spring-tensioned lever. Did you say "sandwich" ?

11-16-2001, 05:51 PM	#42
Nemes1S Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 7	Surefoot, I think it's a more than good enough system. It's true that it needs the block to be as big as the socket, but thats no bad at all. Many blocks are so huge only for being able to attach them using the AMD holes, not because the perform better being bigger. For example, in every test I've seen Maze 2 performs only marginally better, if any better at all, that Maze 1 (much smaller). And about the danger of breaking the socket slugs, I think it's not a problem if the 3 slugs on each side are used. Keep in mind that a lot of heavy copper heatsinks use socket slugs, even only one on each side on most cases. And heatsinks, being much taller than a waterblock, apply a lot more of torque on the socket slugs. Any WB is short enough for not applying that kind of pressure on the socket. In my opinion, using bolts, springs and nuts isn't neccesary in most circunstances, but hey, I'm not saying it's not a better mounting system... Like you say here, just my 2 cents...

11-16-2001, 08:13 PM	#43
Jonas Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Jackson, MI Posts: 94	check this out. this block is very similar to the spiral, but its mounting system uses spring steel, and the socket lugs. it will apply a nice even pressure that is the same everytime... i contacted them to see if i could get one of these blocks for a little comparison article i'm writing for my application...would be interesting i think to see the difference between the spir@l, the maze2, and this wj-200+. __________________ "...as soon as you're born you start dying; so you might as well have a good time..."

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