Athlon XP's naming scheme is getting out of hand. - Page 2

jtroutma · 05-10-2002, 03:35 PM

ColdFlare:

I will try to put this as delicately as possible.

Obviously you have a "misunderstanding" about how CPU's are manufacuted and designed. A core shrink is GOOD for heat because the smaller the chip, the LESS voltage needed to run it and so LESS heat is generated! Not to mention that Intel is using the SAME core size right now on their latest P4 CPUs. When you look at a P4 chip, you are looking at a big heatspreader, NOT THE CORE. The core is inside the heatspreader. I will give Intel a lot of credit for doing this for one reason only; it is near impossible to do physical damage to the CPU CORE when attaching a heatsink to a P4 where the Athlon you have to be careful.

PhreeNet has a very valid point in which AMD chips do run hotter and thus requiring more cooling to keep them stable and that will cost more $$$$ for the OEM dealers.

Also as for AMD pushing back their supposed Thourghbred line a month....... Hey at least they didnt pull an Intel and release an overclocked CPU to the masses that would fail 2/3 times and then have to recall all of them! (Original release of the PIII 1.133Ghz)

Cold Flare, nothing personal but PLEASE do some ore research on the topic before you continue.... it will save us all a lot of headacks. Your opinion IS your opinion, just please get more information about it. Thank you.

phreenet · 05-10-2002, 05:19 PM

You know guys, when the PIII and the PIII Coppermine came out everyone was like happy, AMD with their K5's K6's K6-2's sucked. They got their act together made the orginal Athlon, which by the way wasn't that great. They improved the Athlon core almost 10-fold with the TBird and Palamino. Now everyone is jumping ship over to AMD and the key phrase these days in the fourms and chats is "Intel sucks!". Intel sucks only because they are going through a bit of downtime as far as creativity. Intel isn't down and out for good, every company is allowed to do this, they can't avoid it. When Intel bounces back on AMD, everyone will jump ship and the key phrase will be "AMD sucks!", its practically a given. And even right this second, Intel doesn't totally suck, their P4 isn't a flop as so many people call it. I have seen these machines in action and they don't just suck. AMD may own when it comes to FPU, but single integer calculations that Windows and most of its various applications make Intel still does good at it. In the Datacenter enviroment AMD isn't generally excepted unless its in a large cluster, why?? because in a large cluster failure isn't a big deal. Intel is trusted for reliability and thats why large corpoations use Intel. These large business have IT staff that do extensive research when picking an OEM and a model, I know we did at work. They need something that has speed to it, and is reliable. Its as simple as that.

jtroutma · 05-10-2002, 06:39 PM

PhreeNet:

Again very valid points.

I just wish to clairify something about my personal feelings again.
I dont' "classify" myself under the "Intel Sucks!" catagory; I just disagree with how they went around selling their latest product. If I was an "Intel Sucks!" person (speaking only for myself here

I wouldnt have gon out and purchased 3 PIII 1.2Ghz CPUs. Fact is that Intel still does make good products and probably will remain making good products, however the P4 just rubs me the wrong way

Anyways have a great weekend everyone.

ColdFlare · 05-10-2002, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jtroutma
ColdFlare:

I will try to put this as delicately as possible.

Obviously you have a "misunderstanding" about how CPU's are manufacuted and designed. A core shrink is GOOD for heat because the smaller the chip, the LESS voltage needed to run it and so LESS heat is generated! Not to mention that Intel is using the SAME core size right now on their latest P4 CPUs. When you look at a P4 chip, you are looking at a big heatspreader, NOT THE CORE. The core is inside the heatspreader. I will give Intel a lot of credit for doing this for one reason only; it is near impossible to do physical damage to the CPU CORE when attaching a heatsink to a P4 where the Athlon you have to be careful.

PhreeNet has a very valid point in which AMD chips do run hotter and thus requiring more cooling to keep them stable and that will cost more $$$$ for the OEM dealers.

Also as for AMD pushing back their supposed Thourghbred line a month....... Hey at least they didnt pull an Intel and release an overclocked CPU to the masses that would fail 2/3 times and then have to recall all of them! (Original release of the PIII 1.133Ghz)

Cold Flare, nothing personal but PLEASE do some ore research on the topic before you continue.... it will save us all a lot of headacks. Your opinion IS your opinion, just please get more information about it. Thank you.

dude i understand fully what you are saying, and i have been knowing this information for a while. and a die shrink is not always good.

Anyway back on topic, the athlon on a .13 process on 80mm square. Can you imagine the heat dissipating from such a small surface? this is a .13 micron Athlon not a pentium, so it is still power hungry and will still heat up quickly

Pentium 4 .13 micron chips are cool, fast, and scale very high. This is because of the pentium 4 archectiture. This is in no way how the t-bred will be running.

BobMont · 05-10-2002, 10:52 PM

I kinda have a split view:

If it actually sells more, then it's definately good for me.

BUT if I was the average Joe, and found out that the XP1700 wasn't 1700 mhz, I'd just say "Screw AMD, I'll stick with Intel, the brand I have seen in commercials"

Personally, I know the naming system, and it might even help me sell a few computers, and it does more accurately compare the speed to the Pentium.

WebMasta33 · 05-11-2002, 12:43 AM

Then why doesn't the industry rate processors on MIPS or Flops than Mhz?

ColdFlare · 05-11-2002, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WebMasta33
Then why doesn't the industry rate processors on MIPS or Flops than Mhz?

Because the standard is mhz, and everythign was rating in mhz before the whole pr fiasco. The world doesnt see kindly to changes.

You are asking people to rate processor in MIPs to change what everyone knows about computers, ie mhz, when the average person doesnt even know what mhz means, when they walk into a store.

WebMasta33 · 05-11-2002, 09:54 PM

The average person doesn't know anything about computers anyways... they just get what they're told to get.

phreenet · 05-12-2002, 09:33 AM

The easiest way to solve this is to buy a Sun Microsystems computer. Then we can laugh at both companies.

imagex · 05-12-2002, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColdFlare

Also another thing to point out is AMD's earning is in the red now, even after they gain market share!! The price of an athlon is way toooo cheap!!

Too cheap?? Dont you mean that Intel is robbing us with bloated prices!!!!! Do you like to be over charged?? I dont. I like amd :1 more bag for the buck and 2 amd is oc freindly. "there I vented"

ColdFlare · 05-12-2002, 12:51 PM

"more oc friendly" title has been robbed and Intel now owns it. You can get proof for this by checking 3rdmark top score. Its way ahead of what AMD can offer.

imagex · 05-12-2002, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColdFlare

Also another thing to point out is AMD's earning is in the red now, even after they gain market share!! The price of an athlon is way toooo cheap!!

Too cheap?? Dont you mean that Intel is robbing us with bloated prices!!!!! Do you like to be over charged?? I dont. I like amd :1 more bag for the buck and 2 amd is oc freindly. "there I vented"

phreenet · 05-12-2002, 01:25 PM

More OC Friendly, haha, I have seen those P4's over 3.2 Ghz

Kevin · 05-13-2002, 01:03 AM

Dudes, I hate locking threads... be nice to eachother. It makes you look like an ass if you have a "short temper" or chip on your shoulder.
-kev

05-10-2002, 03:35 PM	#26
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	ColdFlare: I will try to put this as delicately as possible. Obviously you have a "misunderstanding" about how CPU's are manufacuted and designed. A core shrink is GOOD for heat because the smaller the chip, the LESS voltage needed to run it and so LESS heat is generated! Not to mention that Intel is using the SAME core size right now on their latest P4 CPUs. When you look at a P4 chip, you are looking at a big heatspreader, NOT THE CORE. The core is inside the heatspreader. I will give Intel a lot of credit for doing this for one reason only; it is near impossible to do physical damage to the CPU CORE when attaching a heatsink to a P4 where the Athlon you have to be careful. PhreeNet has a very valid point in which AMD chips do run hotter and thus requiring more cooling to keep them stable and that will cost more $$$$ for the OEM dealers. Also as for AMD pushing back their supposed Thourghbred line a month....... Hey at least they didnt pull an Intel and release an overclocked CPU to the masses that would fail 2/3 times and then have to recall all of them! (Original release of the PIII 1.133Ghz) Cold Flare, nothing personal but PLEASE do some ore research on the topic before you continue.... it will save us all a lot of headacks. Your opinion IS your opinion, just please get more information about it. Thank you. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

05-10-2002, 05:19 PM	#27
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	You know guys, when the PIII and the PIII Coppermine came out everyone was like happy, AMD with their K5's K6's K6-2's sucked. They got their act together made the orginal Athlon, which by the way wasn't that great. They improved the Athlon core almost 10-fold with the TBird and Palamino. Now everyone is jumping ship over to AMD and the key phrase these days in the fourms and chats is "Intel sucks!". Intel sucks only because they are going through a bit of downtime as far as creativity. Intel isn't down and out for good, every company is allowed to do this, they can't avoid it. When Intel bounces back on AMD, everyone will jump ship and the key phrase will be "AMD sucks!", its practically a given. And even right this second, Intel doesn't totally suck, their P4 isn't a flop as so many people call it. I have seen these machines in action and they don't just suck. AMD may own when it comes to FPU, but single integer calculations that Windows and most of its various applications make Intel still does good at it. In the Datacenter enviroment AMD isn't generally excepted unless its in a large cluster, why?? because in a large cluster failure isn't a big deal. Intel is trusted for reliability and thats why large corpoations use Intel. These large business have IT staff that do extensive research when picking an OEM and a model, I know we did at work. They need something that has speed to it, and is reliable. Its as simple as that. __________________ Dual Pentium!!! 933@1107 Liquid Cooled.

05-10-2002, 06:39 PM	#28
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	PhreeNet: Again very valid points. I just wish to clairify something about my personal feelings again. I dont' "classify" myself under the "Intel Sucks!" catagory; I just disagree with how they went around selling their latest product. If I was an "Intel Sucks!" person (speaking only for myself here I wouldnt have gon out and purchased 3 PIII 1.2Ghz CPUs. Fact is that Intel still does make good products and probably will remain making good products, however the P4 just rubs me the wrong way Anyways have a great weekend everyone. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

05-11-2002, 12:43 AM	#31
WebMasta33 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 526	Then why doesn't the industry rate processors on MIPS or Flops than Mhz? __________________ ========== --Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition) --AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x) --768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB) --Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490 --Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD --Audigy --Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250 ===========

05-11-2002, 09:54 PM	#33
WebMasta33 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 526	The average person doesn't know anything about computers anyways... they just get what they're told to get. __________________ ========== --Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition) --AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x) --768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB) --Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490 --Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD --Audigy --Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250 ===========

05-10-2002, 10:52 PM	#30
BobMont Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: NY Posts: 48	I kinda have a split view: If it actually sells more, then it's definately good for me. BUT if I was the average Joe, and found out that the XP1700 wasn't 1700 mhz, I'd just say "Screw AMD, I'll stick with Intel, the brand I have seen in commercials" Personally, I know the naming system, and it might even help me sell a few computers, and it does more accurately compare the speed to the Pentium.

05-12-2002, 09:33 AM	#34
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	The easiest way to solve this is to buy a Sun Microsystems computer. Then we can laugh at both companies. __________________ Dual Pentium!!! 933@1107 Liquid Cooled.

05-12-2002, 12:51 PM	#36
ColdFlare Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 42	"more oc friendly" title has been robbed and Intel now owns it. You can get proof for this by checking 3rdmark top score. Its way ahead of what AMD can offer.

05-12-2002, 01:25 PM	#38
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	More OC Friendly, haha, I have seen those P4's over 3.2 Ghz __________________ Dual Pentium!!! 933@1107 Liquid Cooled.

05-13-2002, 01:03 AM	#39
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Dudes, I hate locking threads... be nice to eachother. It makes you look like an ass if you have a "short temper" or chip on your shoulder. -kev __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

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